Heh. Based on other speculation from the forums --
Xanderghul's not the embodiment of the Peacock Spirit. He IS the Peacock Spirit.
Being the 2nd most popular religion in Thassilon would've been hilarious to him.
God aligned dieties would be opposed to him, but evil dieties would not - Urgathoa, goddess of vice, and Lamashtu, mother of monsters, among others, would benefit greatly from his triumph.
Keep in mind that while he's pride incarnate, he's also a master of illusion.
Xanderghul could easily just pick a handful of Inner Sea sovereigns and outright replace them, with no one being the wiser.
Xanderghul could be active for decades undermining the entire Inner Sea without anyone realizing what was up, because mind blank is your friend.
Think of what Razmir's been able to do, and keep in mind that Xanderghul makes Razmir look like a chump.
An alternative might be attempting to dig Sorshen out of her hidey-hole beneath Korvosa. She's only slightly less powerful than Xanderghul (although tracking down her mythic rank I've not had any luck on as of yet).
The best chance to take a crack at Xanderghul would be when he awakens from stasis before he has much time to get caught up on the events of the past 10 eons and learn a new local language or three.
However, as Zhangar so eloquently pointed out, the usual methods aren't going to work. He hid is entire kingdom under many layers of illusion. None of other Runelords picked a fight with him simply because they had no information on him. If a half dozen highly motivated Archmages didn't dare mess with him and his stuff ... yeah.
Were I to take a guess, Xanderghul has already arisen from stasis, long before the events of the RotRL and ShS APs take place. Perhaps he's the "gold dragon" on the isolated island implementing a eugenics program. Perhaps he's the Red Mantis. Perhaps he's both and his simulacrum is Razmir. Added bonus for being the Peacock Spirit because it amuses him.
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@ Turin - Sorshen's a tier 10 trickster.
@ Major - you could certainly ask in his thread. But yeah, if Xanderghul's already been up and active, he should be damn near untouchable - nothing short of, say, getting on the bad side of Baba Yaga would even ruffle his feathers.
But presuming he actually is the Peacock Spirit, then Xanderghul's endgame is transcending this mortal coil and becoming a true god.
Perhaps he's been studying Aroden's mistakes, and is now going to do it "correctly." Perhaps Xanderghul's the god that humanity deserves.
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I've been kicking around a campaign idea similar to this. I'd check out Lost Kingdoms, if you haven't already.
One major thing to remember is that at least half of Cyrusian - possibly including Xin-Cyrusian itself (still comparing maps) - isn't Varisia at all, but the modern-day Lands of the Linnorm Kings. Their sourcebook even has some history on their long-ago clashes with the former slaves of Thassilon, including the rune giant Queen Ledamaru.
As others have pointed out, the Peacock Spirit and Xanderghul are likely very closely related. I doubt it's as simple as "X=PS" though. For one thing, he seems the sort who'd make things more complicated by nature. For another, much like Baba Yaga, he'd probably rather avoid godhood - after all, who wants all the responsibilities and rules? Better to have some other great power, with no limits on its use and no need to reveal its depths.
Mr. Jacobs has said no more mythic APs, at least for the time being, so I'm at a loss for how he intends to tell the stories of the two most potent Runelords.
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Pride goeth before the fall from the asteroid that shattered all that he once held. He awakens to a world that resembles almost nothing of what he once knew. Lissala's influence is virtually gone. The Peacock Spirit answers no queries. At least one of his brethren is (depending on the campaign) confirmed permanently deceased.
His minions and previous infrastructure have been dust for eons. I dunno, taking the guise of a gold dragon with a suspiciously less-than-LG eugenics program on a geographically isolated island could be just the ticket. Who questions the motives of a great wyrm gold dragon? Who dares call said dragon out even if they do harbor suspicions? ;)
Hello there. I've a few suggestions.
First and foremost, as Zanghar pointed out, i think Xanderghul should be presented in the game as an already active force in the world, known however by other names. I love the idea Razmir=Simulacrum, but i think that's a bit too "low" for him. He should aim higher, and surely the sihedron artifact should be one of his aims.
Yet, he must act subtly, or otherwise many other forces will oppose him from many fronts. One of those fronts may be the aboleths, that could perceive him as a "survivor azlant king", and as such a potential menace on the long term. Yet, it could be the opposite, and the aboleths may actually want to see HIM controlling Avistan than the Cheliax empire (better to face one crazy overpowered demigod than the infernal hierarchy).
Surely, he should try to gain power on the entire sin magic. This could be achieved by "refounding" the runelords (many options are here open! He could put on virtouos people and /or simulacra of himself or the other runelords (mythic simulacrums?), or lure dragons into the positions).
I would also love to se a few Asura or Rakshasas involved. With his doctrine, the Peacock spirit could well be one overlord of this races and his relation with Xan would be one of mutual beneficial. As Krune possess the support of Lissala's servitors, Xan could be assisted by monk-like asuras or rakshasas.
Most importantly, i would challange the idea that an eventual return of Xan would necessarly be a "bad" thing. While in the end the effects of his rise would be the enslavery of all Avistan to him, i think a wise DM should make so that the advantages of Xan reappearing and "spreading" Thassilonian wisdom put the players on the situation of actually want to assist Xan instead to oppose him.
This thread is pure gold!
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Here's where "Xanderghul's probably the Peacock Spirit" comes from - final question and answer of that post. I think equivalent posts have been made elsewhere.
In actual canon, I assume Xanderghul's in stasis or its equivalent - NONE of the Runelords woke up when they'd originally planned, but the wheels are in motion.
The Peacock Spirit actually granting spells again would be the biggest sign that Xanderghul's back, active, and ready to reveal himself. He might still keep the masquerade though - acting as the prophet/high priest of an ineffable but powerful entity. Xanderghul loves deception.
Heh. Razmir's faith exploding in numbers and popularity because he's actually now granting spells could be a great indicator that Xanderghul had just replaced him.
There's also the matter of "what was Xanderghul's contingency plan for when he woke back up?"
I'd expect Xanderghul's to be grander, though probably erring on quality over quantity. (IIRC, Shalast was actually the strongest Thassilonian kingdom, but Zutha, Sorshen and Xanderghul were all personally stronger than Karzoug - acting as a counterweight to Shalast's military might. IIRC, Karzoug was winning his war against Alaznist when Starfall hit.)
Like a dormant shades-like spell that, once activated, will start generating entire armies at the drop of a hat.
I keep forgetting the Mythic aspects of the game. That IS interesting, VERY interesting. And very fitting re: Xanderghul/The Peacock Spirit.
Fittingly, the accounts of the state of war between Karzoug and Alaznist are conflicting some 10,000+ years afterwards. :)
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Was just looking at Shattered Star Book 6.
Huh. It's actually unknown how strong Xanderghul's military was, because no one wanted to pick a fight with him.
And I saw the bit about Alaznist being on the brink of victory.
Shalast was the second largest kingdom after Xanderghul's, and I believe it had the best army, but that may be Karzoug's fond memories. His army could have also been woefully underequipped because he wasn't willing to spend anything on them. Heh.
My personal favorite bit about the Runelords as that all of them had begun doomsday preparations because each Runelord was expecting one of the others to cause an apocalypse.
Edit: Zutha's weaker than Karzoug? Huh, dude must've only been 17th level then - he IS a lich, after all. Guessing he's CR 20 to Karzoug's CR 21.
And I think Alaznist was lower level but had demonic pacts and mythic tiers to raise up her power level, putting her on about even footing with Karzoug (who at CR 21 is about as good as a nonmythic human being gets).
Xanderghul may have been better informed some time in advance, packed his forces into stasis on a then-uninhabited island that no one thought much of at the time. *BOOM!* rock falls, a whole lotta people die.
Not wanting to deal with his forces entombed beneath miles of ice, he instead implements 'Plan B' and 'Case Distraction' upon awakening. *If* he is the Peacock Spirit, he also determines when he grants spells to any devout followers. There may not be many, and 'Plan P' has not yet attained the necessary point due to the awful mess in Cheliax. All those nosy infernals you see ... ;)
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Hilariously, the Caulborn working for Karzoug saw Starfall coming and didn't bother to warn him. If the wiki's correct, anyways...
And yeah, he can hold off on granting spells until he's ready.
Heh. RotRL
The possibility that the Pageant of the Peacock bardic masterpiece also calls upon the Peacock Spirit amuses me.
Interestingly, Xanderghul made it a point to regularly bind outsiders (to the point that he had entire armies of bound angels) when he such magics were normally impossible for Thassilonian illusionists (they can't use conjuration). Of course, there are ways around that - especially for an archmage.
Wonder if he's be able to manufacture a herald for the Peacock Spirit. Probably could.
I'd forgotten about that item in your spoiler, Zhangar. <grin> I'd wager he's managed the last point, perhaps it is resting in stasis as part of 'Plan P'...
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Not long ago I asked JJ directly, if Xanderghul is Peacock Spirit. Here's the anwser. It's not a definitive Yes or No, but in my opinion, this means that Xanderghul is Peacock Spirit. He isn't a god obviosly and doesn't grant spells to his followers. He's too arrogant to give something back for being worshiped.
Given how secretive was Peacock Spirit religion, it's an excellent tool to fool worshipers, that they need to ascend further in its rank to be worthy for gods blessing and help. An excellent lie for master of illusions.
So Peacock Spirit is his alter ego, but it's just a fake idea. Maybe to fuel his Pride Runewells. After all, runewells where power batteries of Runelords. This may explain his personal power over illusions and binding outsiders, and his mythic tiers.
About idea that he is active now - if he is, he greatly won from demise of Karzoug, Krune and Xin. He even could help some parties from shadows with dealings with his rivals.
Maybe he's the mysterious leader of Aspis Consortium. Or one of Ten in Decemvirate. Position in the last one is a great opportunity for him to keep tabs on his fellow Runelords. And hoard artifacts or other usefull stuff for himself.
If you want to get really nasty and "behind many curtains" with Xan, have him populate the entire decemvirate with simulacrums. ;)
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Didn't know about retcon with Aspis Consortium. Oh well.
And its quiet possible that Xanderghul awakened after defeat of Karzoug. More specific - after party that killed him, left Runeforge. Remember his minion there, Vraxeris, was very disappointed, when he understood that it was Karzoug, not Xanderghul, was awakening (which, curiously, implies that each return of a Runelord may spark runewells to life - or just the pool in Runeforge). And Vraxeris was inside Runeforge all the time after Earthfall, so he couldn't miss this event.
On the other hand, Xanderghul, as JJ stated, was smarter then other Runelords. Maybe he created a method, that hid his returning from connection with the pool in Runeforge. A smart move, if other Runelord is already awaken, rules all along and doesn't want competition.
And there's other thoughts about Xanderghul - we know that by himself he's a powerful spellcaster. He has some cool artifacts and access to some old vaults of his domain, that survived Earthfall (it's possible). He's smart, but on other side full of pride about himself. Can he eat his pride, to not start his returning with a plan to conquer all Avistan with some Tassilon army? Yes he can. When he made his Sword of Sin, he wanted to use it by himself (coz pride), but understood fast, that he's lame at sword fighting. So he lures an angel and charms him to be his champion. He is capable of understanding that he has weaknesses, and overcoming them with his intelligence.
But the main question is, even if he can lower his pride and accept some weaknesses, would he do it?
If you answer Yes, and want him awakened long ago in your campaign - well, then he's truly hard to stop by this point. Almost impossible.
I don't see Sorshen as above tier 5 or 6. I've not yet decided on how I'll stat her up for my Chapter 7 of Shattered Star, not entirely at any rate.
Xanderghul I plan to wait until something official comes down the pipeline. Well, not unless my players are chomping at the bit to track down and whack-a-mole the remaining Runelords afterwards. (Even then, I'd probably go along the lines of thought in this thread. They can probably pick off the rest of them in due course, but Xanderghul I want to be something especially difficult.)
It is also possible that Xanderghul went to an entirely different planet to set up shop after learning what he has learned on Golarion. Whether within the same solar system or another world that seems ripe for the plucking ... and has never encountered anything the likes of him.
I'm familiar with that GRR tome - those templates fit Sorshen's mold perfectly.
I liked some Sorshen conversion someone did, which gave her all the adventages of a vampire, but none of the disadventages (so no undead, or sunlight vulnerability, etc, just inmortality, powers, and stat buffs)
I liked some Sorshen conversion someone did, which gave her all the advantages of a vampire, but none of the disadvantages (so no undead, or sunlight vulnerability, etc, just immortality, powers, and stat buffs)
I found that one. I'm pillaging it liberally, although not quite going so nuts with the abilities that vampires normally acquire. Mine will have her own ... uniqueness.
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Wow, Xanderghul as a member of the decimvirate or aspis consortium. Both are great and lofty ideas.
"Or"?
Any evil mastermind worth his salt would try to steer both...
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_ . . / _ _ _ / _ / _ / . . / _ . / _ _ .
;p
Carry on!
--C.