Refitting the Appraise skill

[Shadowdweller]

Due to all the consolidation, it seems that most skills have experienced a fairly significant power creep. That is, because new tasks and abilities have been joined together a given rank in most skills is now is more versatile than before. The lowly Appraise skill, however, has not seen significant expansion in PfRPG alpha 3. In the 3.5 games I've played thus far, the skill has been rarely taken and has seemed lacking as compared to other choices for skill rank investment...which is a shame because I think the concept has considerable potential. Moreover, since many spells make skills largely irrelevant, I would like to see the balance of skill versus spell balance tipped a little more towards the skill end. Therefore I propose the following changes:

Change name to: Mercantilism (Int).

Functions:
1) Evaluate item value for the most part as listed in the alpha pdf; I would tend to provide increased difficulty modifiers beyond the guidelines listed, however, for items such as gems; items where differentiating between types takes some degree of training (garnet versus ruby, for instance). Maybe something like +5 or so. Alternately, the skill may be used to determine what the going market price is for a type of item that the skill user does not have but is thinking about purchasing.

2) Misidentification: If the price of an item or treasure is misidentified at below its true market value, then characters trying to sell that item are forced to use the false value. (This is how I've run my own games for some time). Some items, such as gem types, may be undervalued very significantly.

3) Commerce: (Opposed Mercantilism checks). A Mercantilism check may be used to find the best price offered in a given area, and to haggle effectively with potential buyers. Offer a potential increase or decrease in market price based on the degree of success. Perhaps up to 20% of base buying/selling price?

4) Black market trading: A Mercantilism check may be used instead of a Bluff check to sell stolen goods safely. This may as easily involve finding a buyer who does not care about such things as passing an item off as legal. Alternately a Mercantilism check may be used to safely purchase goods (such as, frequently, poisons) that are normally illegal in a given locale.

5) Determine origin: (Opposed by bluff check or other appropriate skill of crafter if the item is a replica, forgery, or fake) The skill may be used to determine the region where an item was likely constructed based on materials, style, and shape. If the item has a maker's mark, a Mercantilism check may be used to identify the actual creator. (For example, tracking down a signature on a portrait or illustration). At the DM's discretion, a check of <insert very high DC here> may also sometimes be used to identify a particularly powerful or well-known crafter even when a maker's mark is not present.

6) Study function: Even without the Detect Magic spell, a skill check may provide some clues as to the nature of a particularly well-made or magic item. This may include things such as whether an item is masterwork or not, the presence and nature of any special materials involved (e.g. whether the item is made from darkwood as opposed to oil-darkened oak), method of activation (e.g. by use of a command word or simply wearing the item), and some very general clue as to function (e.g. item produces a targeted offensive power, item has an enchantment that magically enhances some ability of the wearer, or item is activated to produce some sort of utility effect upon the activator). Ideally this lattermost would be something separate from and different than the sort of information provided by Detect Magic.

Just some ideas. I've mixed feeling about them myself: Some of these functions may be better off left to RP rather than being reduced to a skill check. Some might be better handled by other skills.

[Shadowdweller]

Erm...on second thought, it probably makes more sense to assign the Commerce/Haggling function to Diplomacy, the Black Market trading function to Sense Motive, and to keep the skill name "Appraise".

[Pangur Bàn]

I'd stick Appraise under the relevant Knowledge or Craft skill, whichever's more appropriate (or even whichever the player wants to use). Judging the value of an animal goes under Handle Animal, to the best of my knowledge, so I don't see why judging the value of items should be a separate skill. Knowledge skills aren't useless by a long shot, but it's not like adding this function is going to break them either.

[Kaisoku]

If you keep the Appraise skill, but make it the primary way to Identify things (including magic items, facilitated with Detect Magic in some form), it could be well worth it compared to the rest.

Then Identify and such spells could simply give a bonus to the skill check when identifying magic items (making a Wizard not needing to put ranks into it if they have this spell readily available).

It would then mean that a Rogue with ranks in this skill, and Use Magic Device with a scroll of Detect Magic (or an item with the effect) could identify things for the group too.

I'd say this is worth putting ranks into compared to Tumble and whatnot.

[stonechild]

Kaisoku wrote:

If you keep the Appraise skill, but make it the primary way to Identify things (including magic items, facilitated with Detect Magic in some form), it could be well worth it compared to the rest.

Then Identify and such spells could simply give a bonus to the skill check when identifying magic items (making a Wizard not needing to put ranks into it if they have this spell readily available).

It would then mean that a Rogue with ranks in this skill, and Use Magic Device with a scroll of Detect Magic (or an item with the effect) could identify things for the group too.

I'd say this is worth putting ranks into compared to Tumble and whatnot.

Umm, you guys realize this is how this works, right? No appraise = no magic item identification because it says you must be trained in appraise to identify items (pg 55 A3).

[Kaisoku]

I guess I wasn't clear that that's what I meant.. the change they made it to in Pathfinder makes it as worthwhile to have as the other skills that were consolidated.