Eschew Materials just seemed like a step in the right direction. I think Sorcerers should be able to cast completely without material components. So I came up with this idea for a class feature to keep the game balanced.
Sorcerer's Blood
Since a sorcerer receives his spellcasting ability from his bloodline, a sorcerer uses his own blood as a substitute for material components. Whenever a spell calls for a component with a value greater than 1 gp cost, the sorcerer instead bleeds himself. Every hit point of damage he causes himself is the equivalent of paying 100 gp per sorcerer level. This is treated as subdual manage and must be naturally healed, not magically healed. The sorcerer must have a slashing or piercing weapon to use this class feature.
For costly spells, a greater sacrifice of a sorcerer's flesh must be provided. This grants a 1000 gp per sorcerer level for every point of CON damage. This damage is temporary but must be naturally cured. Magical curing will not work.
A sorcerer's blood is useless to anybody else but himself and it must be used immediately to cast a spell so it cannot be stored.
Eschew Materials just seemed like a step in the right direction. I think Sorcerers should be able to cast completely without material components. So I came up with this idea for a class feature to keep the game balanced.
Sorcerer's Blood
Since a sorcerer receives his spellcasting ability from his bloodline, a sorcerer uses his own blood as a substitute for material components. Whenever a spell calls for a component with a value greater than 1 gp cost, the sorcerer instead bleeds himself. Every hit point of damage he causes himself is the equivalent of paying 100 gp per sorcerer level. This is treated as subdual manage and must be naturally healed, not magically healed. The sorcerer must have a slashing or piercing weapon to use this class feature.For costly spells, a greater sacrifice of a sorcerer's flesh must be provided. This grants a 1000 gp per sorcerer level for every point of CON damage. This damage is temporary but must be naturally cured. Magical curing will not work.
A sorcerer's blood is useless to anybody else but himself and it must be used immediately to cast a spell so it cannot be stored.
I like the built-in Eschew Materials for a Sorcerer.
Although, I don't think IDENTIFY(and quite a few others) should be free for a Sorcerer. Even though currently a Cleric with the MAGIC DOMAIN can already do this(IDENTIFY free of charge) once he receives 2nd level spells.I do not like the Emo Self-Cutter idea of "sorcerer's blood". It reminds me of the "Witch" prestige kit that was released. The witch required large quantities of human blood... aka cauldrons in volume.
Sorry, at the same time, I do not have a better solution. :)
I like the built-in Eschew Materials for a Sorcerer.
Although, I don't think IDENTIFY(and quite a few others) should be free for a Sorcerer. Even though currently a Cleric with the MAGIC DOMAIN can already do this(IDENTIFY free of charge) once he receives 2nd level spells.
Identify is "Free" for everyone, no longer any expensive material component in PRPG.
I do not like the Emo Self-Cutter idea of "sorcerer's blood". It reminds me of the "Witch" prestige kit that was released. The witch required large quantities of human blood... aka cauldrons in volume.
Eh... not a big fan of the bleeding thing either.
I like the built-in Eschew Materials for a Sorcerer.
Although, I don't think IDENTIFY(and quite a few others) should be free for a Sorcerer. Even though currently a Cleric with the MAGIC DOMAIN can already do this(IDENTIFY free of charge) once he receives 2nd level spells.I do not like the Emo Self-Cutter idea of "sorcerer's blood". It reminds me of the "Witch" prestige kit that was released. The witch required large quantities of human blood... aka cauldrons in volume.
Sorry, at the same time, I do not have a better solution. :)
I don't know what en emo self-cutter is and I never saw the witch prestige class. I was trying to come up with some way to balance sorcerers getting rid of ALL material components while still balancing it with wizards.
Yea... but there is something very cool about casting a spell with pocket lint, six cheetoes, and a stapler.
Kind of makes me feel like a magical Macgyver.
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Yea... but there is something very cool about casting a spell with pocket lint, six cheetoes, and a stapler.
Kind of makes me feel like a magical Macgyver.
Then you sir, are a wizard. Sorcerers on the hand, are supposed to be ones where magic comes naturally. If wizards are the MacGyvers of fantasy, then sorcerers are the Fonzies.
The problem is fairly simple: some powerful spells are restrained by the necessity of making a permanent sacrifice in order to use them. By definition, no impermanent sacrifice can provide the same effect.
There aren't many options for permanent sacrifices in the system. About all you can get is Money (what you're trying to get away from), XP (ruled out - and not too workable with the new XP tables), attribute points (awfully drastic and overly granular), irrevokable death (even more drastic and a definite a once-off), skill points (an interesting option, but ultimately limiting), permanent hit points (also an option, but ultimately a crippling one), Saving Throws (even more crippling), BAB (a very limited resource and hard to explain, although with interesting ramifications),and Aging (debatably reversible, also can be gotten around by becoming undead).
I don’t see much else on the character sheet to work with.
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To tell the truth this is in the main, a solution looking for a problem. How many GM's here actually track items like bat guano and pieces of feather or all those trivial spell components too cheap to have a coin value attached, instead of simply generalising the spell component pouch.
Let me know so I can tell who are the GM's who concentrate on the nonfun aspects of the game.
We've rarely kept track of spell components except for the really expensive ones. Otherwise they're a bit of busywork that detracts from the game. Kind of like trying to plan your adventuring day, and slot in armor wearing and removal time so that you can use the washroom.
Where components do matter is when the players are put in a situation out of their control. If they've been captured for instance, they wouldn't have been left with components and only then do we worry about incidental components, like bat guano.
Essentially, if there is a chance for the players to have obtained run of the mill components like sand, petals and the like we assume they have what they need for their spells.
To tell the truth this is in the main, a solution looking for a problem. How many GM's here actually track items like bat guano and pieces of feather or all those trivial spell components too cheap to have a coin value attached, instead of simply generalising the spell component pouch.
This is not what the OP was talking about, he is referring to the material components with non-trivial costs such as stoneskin, wish, gate, forcecage, etc. Sorcerers leave the bat guano to the wizards since they have eschew materials as a bonus feat at 1st level.
The problem is fairly simple: some powerful spells are restrained by the necessity of making a permanent sacrifice in order to use them. By definition, no impermanent sacrifice can provide the same effect.
Well the other problem is that money is a character sheet commodity that is constantly devalued through the life of the character. The 250gp to cast stone skin is expensive to buff the whole party at 8th level but by 12th level it's much less significant. Also, some parties have access to more gold than others.
Some spells (stoneskin) should just be rewritten and rebalanced to eliminate the expensive components altogether. Maybe as an alternate the spell could do HP damage for the duration of the spell.
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Better way to do it would be to twig the sorcerer list and get rid of the following spells.
1. Spells with long durations. Sorcerers are the casters of the moment, they're not going to need permanency or long term buff spells.
2. Expensive components. Sorcerers can live without wish and stoneskin. this may require adjusting the bloodline powers appropriately.
3. The class lists needs more short duration spells that reflect it's particular nature, perhaps spells arsising from the bloodlines themselves. and give it more of a unique spell list instead of being a copy of the wizard's list.
In turn, buff the sorcerer's skill pts to 4 and add Use Magic Device to the class skill list.
I really like this idea...
While I really appreciate the image of a sorcerer smearing his own blood on a wall to make a scrying mirror, I can’t get behind the idea of sorcerer’s being their own material components.
While the OP’s basic premise is sound, that kind of logic opens the door to too many other alterations to spell lists or capabilities. It’s not hard to come up with an equally logical reason why they do need spell components, so I don’t see much being gained by making any changes.
In turn, buff the sorcerer's skill pts to 4 and add Use Magic Device to the class skill list.
Incidentally UMD is on the sorcerer's class list in Alpha 3. No 4 Skill Points/ level though :(
Better way to do it would be to twig the sorcerer list and get rid of the following spells.
1. Spells with long durations. Sorcerers are the casters of the moment, they're not going to need permanency or long term buff spells.
2. Expensive components. Sorcerers can live without wish and stoneskin. this may require adjusting the bloodline powers appropriately.
3. The class lists needs more short duration spells that reflect it's particular nature, perhaps spells arsising from the bloodlines themselves. and give it more of a unique spell list instead of being a copy of the wizard's list.
Suggestions along the lines of "I want a sorcerer who doesn't have ability X" generally make me think: "That's easy -- don't give your sorcerer ability X when you create her. Or if you're the DM, make it a house rule."
E.g. "My sorcerer shouldn't be able to cast spells with expensive components" --> don't learn spells with expensive components. Problem solved.
Suggestions of the form "I want a sorcerer who has ability X" are a different kettle of fish, of course.
As you wish: one distinctive spell list with a focus on the immediate for sorcerers. I’m afraid that you’re unlikely to get such a thing into Pathfinder, it’s both a major back-compatibility problem and a lot of work - so would a free OGL third-party download do?
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=28926&it=1
Cutting their spell list down Monte Cooke style is going a bit too far. I want to keep the class balanced but widen the difference between them and wizards but getting rid of their need for material components. They are supposed to get this due to ancestry (like dragon blood, etc), and you don't see their ancestors needing material components for their SLAs.
So I was thinking a hit points for gold pieces exchange that would balance their added ability to get rid of costly materials. Ok, so, you don't like the "emo-self cutter" (I asked some people what that is), so how about it's just a magical feedback. Casting spells that need costly components just creates a strain on them so much it causes subdual damage?