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I know this has been an area of contention and the 3.5 rules for Polymorph never did work the way that they were intended. And like most things this became more convoluted with each Monster Manual and "Splat" book that came out. While I do feel that the approach that Jason took was a good first step and whereas I do realize that it is not finished in the Alpha, I find it somewhat lacking and limiting in many aspects. My primary concern is that this is one of those features where a Wizard, while not the primary user of Polymorph type spells, will have a vast advantage over say a Sorcerer, if only because of the limited number of spells known for a Sorcerer. I was wondering if anyone had other ideas, besides those already posted that may give other options for someone wanting to play the "ShapeShifter" type. One of the options I have not seem mentioned here is the one by Rich Burlew the crafter of The Order of the Stick. It is an option with fewer over all spells and is much less limiting then the option in the Alpha Release. You can find it on his website. I welcome any feed back on this as well as any opinions on how well the current alpha rules worked in playtest.
I agree that Burlew solution seems cleaner. Plus it has some additional benefits for people who want to use polymorph for purposes other than trying to rules lawyer your way to victory in combat.
In my games, polymorph was used mainly for "underover work". People trying to sneak among the orcs, the enemy organzation etc. To use this effectivly, you need the attribute value of the target creature. An orge with say ST 16, because giantform gives +6 ST, will be not very belivable to the other ogres.
Burlews method will allow to mimic creatures more closely than the PFRPG solution.
Another thing is duration: for any impersonation, a duration of 10 min/ level is almost mandatory. 1 min/lvl is combat-oriented for dungeon crawling. Its 1min/lvl because people fear that a spell might be helpful for more than one encounter. For those who dont play 15min adventure days, longer durations are not a problem and they conserve the utility of a spell outside of monsterbashing.
I realize, of course, that rulebooks must accomodate all sorts of playing styles, but sometimes its such a drag to see all those 1min/lvl spells, a precursor to the per-encounter power rules, that make the game so utterly combat-centered.
To use this effectivly, you need the attribute value of the target creature. An orge with say ST 16, because giantform gives +6 ST, will be not very belivable to the other ogres.
I disagree with this.
I don't believe, that to infiltrate an organization, you have to the same exact same ability scores as the creatures you are walking around. I think it would be similar to saying that, if you were a strong human, to infiltrate a human criminal organization you would have to reduce your strength to the human average to not be suspicious to the other humans.
Furthermore, anybody who wants to use a polymorph effect for infiltration would presumably have ranks in the Disguise skill. All Polymorph spells give you a +20 to your disguise skill checks to make yourself appear bulkier, more like the average ogre.
The duration is problematic, though. It would probably be better to make up a new spell (possibly an illusion?) that would make you appear to be an average member of the new species but not grant you any of the creature's powers and abilities.
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Furthermore, anybody who wants to use a polymorph effect for infiltration would presumably have ranks in the Disguise skill. All Polymorph spells give you a +20 to your disguise skill checks to make yourself appear bulkier, more like the average ogre.
The duration is problematic, though. It would probably be better to make up a new spell (possibly an illusion?) that would make you appear to be an average member of the new species but not grant you any of the creature's powers and abilities.
So essentially an "Improved Disguise Self" in other words? 3rd level spell, duration 10 min/level, can appear to be up to 1 size category larger or smaller?
That might work. In fact, you could probably make a whole chain of those spells, allowing more variance in size and body type, and possibly eventually making the illusion tactile as well.
I'd still maintain that a successful impersonation requires that it stands up to interaction, and also includes being able to reproduce things and effects that a standard member of the race could produce, including feats of strength.
I don't believe, that to infiltrate an organization, you have to the same exact same ability scores as the creatures you are walking around. I think it would be similar to saying that, if you were a strong human, to infiltrate a human criminal organization you would have to reduce your strength to the human average to not be suspicious to the other humans.
I can see what you are getting at, but your anaogy refers to a superior race member that would need dumbing down, while i am more concerned that the spells as written produce clearly substandard race members.
In the end that might be ok, so that a player or NPC needs more effort than a single spell for his impersonation ploy. Your objection got me thinking here, even though you seem to misunderstand my intentions here.
In the end, this is a very minor quibble, Disguise Self works as good as ever more 95% of the cases needed, except for the duration thingy. But I can houserule that, as I instantly did for 3.5. And most DMs cursed with abuse seeking gamers can still use the polymorph as Written in PFRPG.
But I still feel that this is "whine-based design", meaning the introduction of restrictive rules because people are whining that this or that can be abused.
And the question for the sorcerer remains, the PF variant will cost him lots of "spells known", maybe an arcane bloodline sorcerer would fare best here, because he get more spells know that he can select.
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To use this effectivly, you need the attribute value of the target creature. An orge with say ST 16, because giantform gives +6 ST, will be not very belivable to the other ogres.I disagree with this.
I don't believe, that to infiltrate an organization, you have to the same exact same ability scores as the creatures you are walking around. I think it would be similar to saying that, if you were a strong human, to infiltrate a human criminal organization you would have to reduce your strength to the human average to not be suspicious to the other humans.
Well, if you appeared like Hulk Hogan, or some other muscle bound human, when that is not the "norm" then suspicions will be raised. Not that you are a shape shifted creature, but that this person is out of place and a stranger and should be watched.
So, if you are shape shifting to fit into a tribe or orcs, and you come walking in all muscle bound with a STR 20, when everyone else has a 10-14, they will notice you as a stranger and as someone with some power and should therefore be watched. That is not something you are striving for most of the time.
But I still feel that this is "whine-based design", meaning the introduction of restrictive rules because people are whining that this or that can be abused.
There is some truth to that, of course. But I think it helps the game to reduce the variance in the power level of different spells. For example, if Polymorph is very common in one particular campaign but not in another, that makes it hard to design modules that provide a challenge for both.
And the question for the sorcerer remains, the PF variant will cost him lots of "spells known", maybe an arcane bloodline sorcerer would fare best here, because he get more spells know that he can select.
You can always stick with "Polymorph", "Greater Polymorph" and "Shapechange"; that's only 3 spells covering most of the individual shapechanging spells. Of course you'll be getting the spells later than the wizard does, but that's one of the prices you pay for being a sorcerer.