Where do they get their news from then? Just curious.
I guess I'll have to ask them, although I'm not really interested in advocating a particular media outlet. My guess is that my politically concerned associates use multiple sources for information on issues that interest them, and above all, I think they avoid certain televised mass media outlets that need not be named. Several of them, who work in government and academia (Canadian Consulate in BJ, UBC, U of A), read political science journals.
Personally, I try to find sources that don't endorse political candidates and that have not become involved in scandals that have affected their credibility. If I want information on a particular issue I'd prefer to read stories from sources that have no vested interest in the matter, and if I can't do that I'll take a look at biased reports from both sides - and for this, being able to read news in more that one language is a really good asset. Often this is the best anyone can hope for; after all, is there anything that can really give us an objective picture of what's going on?
If you REALLY want to know where I like to go, rather than posting a list for someone on here to thrash me with, I'll post one. I really like to go read Columbia Journalism Review. You can search out the owners of your favorite media outlet on the bottom of the page.
I'm sorry I started this thread. I don't know what I was thinking.
It's the bomb!
I'm actually feeling good about this election. No matter what happens, we're guaranteed a big improvement.
I have a great deal of respect for McCain. I have a lot of respect for his military service and for the hardships he endured in that capacity. I also respect him for the way he handled himself during the last election--when asked about John Kerry, he refused to say anything negative about Kerry, and I believe he even said that he considered Kerry to be a friend. But he also said that, as a Republican, he was endorsing Bush. I may question his taste, but I respect his integrity. And yes, the Beach Boys reference was a real lapse in judgment, but I don't think he is really that flippant about war. I do have concerns about his stance on Iraq, however.
So I respect McCain, but I'm going to vote for Obama. I think he might actually be a good person, which would be a refreshing change. I think he would provide the sort of change that we really need right now. I find his optimism inspiring. I think our county is very divided right now between left and right, and I think Obama has the qualities to bring us together--qualities that very few candidates for political office have. I am not the least bit concerned about his lack of experience. He is educated, intelligent, well-spoken, well-intentioned and charismatic. Bush has plenty of experience, and it is my opinion that he has done very poorly. So experience isn't everything. Maybe the lack of experience will make Obama more inclined to try something new. I believe Obama has the qualities we need in a leader right now. But again, this is all just my opinion.
But as I said before, no matter who wins, I think we will be in pretty good hands. And I find that to be very encouraging.
I had respect for McCain until he pandered away any sense of Maverick that he had to get the nomination. Still wouldn't have voted for him, but at least I respected him.
Where do they get their news from then? Just curious.I guess I'll have to ask them, although I'm not really interested in advocating a particular media outlet. My guess is that my politically concerned associates use multiple sources for information on issues that interest them, and above all, I think they avoid certain televised mass media outlets that need not be named. Several of them, who work in government and academia (Canadian Consulate in BJ, UBC, U of A), read political science journals.
Personally, I try to find sources that don't endorse political candidates and that have not become involved in scandals that have affected their credibility. If I want information on a particular issue I'd prefer to read stories from sources that have no vested interest in the matter, and if I can't do that I'll take a look at biased reports from both sides - and for this, being able to read news in more that one language is a really good asset. Often this is the best anyone can hope for; after all, is there anything that can really give us an objective picture of what's going on?
If you REALLY want to know where I like to go, rather than posting a list for someone on here to thrash me with, I'll post one. I really like to go read Columbia Journalism Review. You can search out the owners of your favorite media outlet on the bottom of the page.
Thanks, I got everything I needed to know.
I read TownHall.org and Conservative Thinker, and then read the New York Times and Time magazine and JewsOnFirst. Most of the items cancel each other out, leading to believe that there's acually very little "news" in the U.S. that isn't totally obscured by spin from all sides.
When I get depressed from all that, I read the Toronto Star and it always cheers me up. Rescuing a cat from a tree is BIG NEWS in Ontario, apparently. If they have two murders in a month, it's a "crime spree." It's like reading about some bizarre utopia. Except it's real. I've been there. What the Star doesn't tell you is that a pint of beer will run you about $8 U.S.!
Thanks, I got everything I needed to know.
Everything? Splendid. What did you need to know?
I read TownHall.org and Conservative Thinker, and then read the New York Times and Time magazine and JewsOnFirst. Most of the items cancel each other out, leading to believe that there's acually very little "news" in the U.S. that isn't totally obscured by spin from all sides.
Checks out JewsOnFirst.
ROFL. Priceless.
I sent the main candidates an email asking what was their position on whether all S^^rfs and Belgians should be burned at the stake.
They haven't answered yet...wonder what's keeping them...
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not to offend but a gay dead monkey gets my vote b4 McCain
QFT
(Warning Extreme Liberal Rant)
McCain looks like a marionette when he is at the podium. Sure the guy was a war hero, but we really do need a change. Bush has most likely damaged our standing with the rest of the world for good; we need a guy that can try to mend fences.
Obama is the best option this country has had in years. I'm honestly shocked how many unrepentant Rebublicans are out there. After the way Bush has abused the powers of the Executive Branch (and somehow avoided impeachment); if I were a Conservative, I'd be hiding my head in the sand. But it seems that fear (the number one tool of the Republican party) still has a chokehold on a large percentage of our population. Hmmm, fear or hope?
I choose hope.
PS I am amazed how many gamers seem to be Conservatives. I mean so many think that D&D is the Devil's game, and aren't Republicans the religious ones?
And I don't watch CNN; MSNBC all the way. Keith Olbermann is the man!
Obama is the best option this country has had in years. I'm honestly shocked how many unrepentant Rebublicans are out there. After the way Bush has abused the powers of the Executive Branch (and somehow avoided impeachment); if I were a Conservative, I'd be hiding my head in the sand. But it seems that fear (the number one tool of the Republican party) still has a chokehold on a large percentage of our population. Hmmm, fear or hope?
The party may have gone off the rails, but it's not like any real conservatives out there have much of an alternative. It's one of the aspects of our electoral system that really blows. There's no credible alternative to turn to, so you continue to vote for the big group closest to your beliefs even if they're run by crooks, wackos, and thugs.
Note of course that this same analysis applies to liberals voting for the Democrats too.
So, it's not really a question of fear as much as resignation. I'd favor a PR system in which minor parties can more easily take support from or even supplant a larger party that has lost its way with its normal supporters.
I read TownHall.org and Conservative Thinker, and then read the New York Times and Time magazine and JewsOnFirst. Most of the items cancel each other out, leading to believe that there's acually very little "news" in the U.S. that isn't totally obscured by spin from all sides.
When I get depressed from all that, I read the Toronto Star and it always cheers me up. Rescuing a cat from a tree is BIG NEWS in Ontario, apparently. If they have two murders in a month, it's a "crime spree." It's like reading about some bizarre utopia. Except it's real. I've been there. What the Star doesn't tell you is that a pint of beer will run you about $8 U.S.!
While our murder rate is very low by American standards we will reach about 60 murders this year and yes a pint will put you back about $8.
Its worth point out that our crime rate is pretty comparable to many American cities - I compared it to Seattle a few years ago and its roughly the same except for murders. Generally I suspect that is because we are mostly not armed so when we get mad at each other we have fist fights.
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The wall fell in Berlin. Try hard enough and you can explain how the lead singer of the Scorpions somehow made it happen. Klaus Meine for president! Rock You Like a Hurricane would make an awesome inauguration song. Now if we could just get over that whole "born in the USA" stupilation.
You don't need to. 'cause it wasn't Klaus Meine, it was this guy.
I liked Mike Gravel. I liked Ron Paul.
I think Barack Obama is the best choice you have left, for environmentalism and social progress, but he will be an expensive president.
I thouroughly expect McCain to win, and cement the victory of the fascist, unthinking, fundamentalist, evangelical, oil-dependant, cancerous, oppressive, military industrial nightmare that America seems to be flirting with.
Peak oil. Global warmimg. Pernicious intelligence agencies overstepping their bounds. Lack of seperation of church and state. Hate for immigrants. War in Iraq, with permanent presence. War on Iran, in the guise of "Giving democracy to the middle east" and a naive assertion that all the massacres are done in the name of human rights, and freedom.
Propoganda raised to the highest points of the art.
Fun times.
In an ideal world, you would get Bill Gates as president, and Bruce Stirling as vice. What a pity that the system is geared for sociopaths and lawyers to be the only choices. Why not just ask the media to choose, and spare the farce of your votes.
This is an opinion post. Don't bother to argue it.
Yeeehaw!
Sploooorrrrrrtch.
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Obama is the best option this country has had in years. I'm honestly shocked how many unrepentant Rebublicans are out there. After the way Bush has abused the powers of the Executive Branch (and somehow avoided impeachment); if I were a Conservative, I'd be hiding my head in the sand. But it seems that fear (the number one tool of the Republican party) still has a chokehold on a large percentage of our population. Hmmm, fear or hope?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
I'm voting for McCain solely because National Healthcare doesn't work, it's failing everywhere it's being used and we shouldn't decide to jump on board.
McCain might want to go to war with Iran, but it'll never get through congress so I'm not worried about it.
That second part is probably quite true.
As for the former I believe you are incorrect and my guess is you are judging solely based on Canada, where I am from, and yes we have some problems. But then private health care in America, as far as I can see from the treatment of my grandparents in Maryland, is also quite broken. To name just one failure out of many that I have witnessed - overzealous medication killed my grandfather young. But hey, the doctors got their cut....
As for Obama's plans, I find it interesting that someone rules that a program "doesn't work" before it has ever begun. To bad nobody had that kind of foresight before the war began in Iraq.
;)
National healthcare. Think, think, think. Nah. It'll never work in America. I'm willing to bet that even if Obama gets in you'll never see it, just like McCain bombing Iran.
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McCain might want to go to war with Iran, but it'll never get through congress so I'm not worried about it.
Actually, the way I see it, McCain might not have to go to war with Iran - the Israeli's will likely do it for him. They've already stated that if no one else does somethin about Iran then they might. And considering how often the Iranians claim that they're going to wipe Israel off the map, I can't really blame them for planning a strike.
The Saudi's and Egyptian's would probably scream and yell a lot if that happened, but secretly they might be happy. I doubt they'd be particularly thrilled with the lunatics in Iran having nukes.
lunatics
Come on dude, are they not ALL lunatics?
I was going to vote Libertarian this year... until I found out that they picked a former Republician as their frontrunner. I disagree with his view on international affairs, but I would have went with Ron Paul, since he seems to be the only one without ties to special interests groups/lobbyists/cronies.
Maybe another independent will step up to the plate. Until then, I think my ballot will remain undecided.
Yeah I usually vote Libertarian, but putting Barr at the top of the ballot is just sad. That knucklehead pushed for outlawing Wicca in the miltary in the Nineties, something that is so against what Libertarianism stands for it's not even funny.
Might have to vote for Nader (again ...sigh)
I really want to vote for Obama. And at the beginning I was really for him, my preference at the end was:
1. Obama
2. McCain
3. Hil... Please someone else! Anyone? Anyone?
But as time is going on, he keeps trying to make me not want to vote for him. Like the whole drilling for oil in the ocean. Obama says stuff like, "That isn't going to give us any help for maybe 17 years." Hello! Aren't you the candidate for the future? Even if we stop driving cars based on gasoline, we still will have a need for oil for other things. Don't tell me you are the candidate for looking into the future and then complain about something that might not be useful until a few years down the road.
Please Obama, I know you can't support any kind of oil drilling because of the insane greenies in your party, but please come up with a better reason than it will take time to see the results.
-a humble moderate
Seriously though, it seems to me that the ones in charge in Iran can sure be classified that way.
Oh I totally agree.
And I think the Israelis are every bit as nuts. They've just got tougher friends. And they're much more devious than the Iranians.
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And I think the Israelis are every bit as nuts. They've just got tougher friends. And they're much more devious than the Iranians.
Absolutely. They are definitely not-right in the head. How else to explain why they live surrounded by people who would apparently rather see them wiped off every map.
Still, I'll take the Israeli's over most of those other chowder-heads any day. At least they're a working democracy.
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
I'm not sure if you are laughing with me or at me. If it is at me, I wonder why?
Nothing I said above is false. Bush managed to get a pre-emptive war through Congress (Republican majority); something that has never been done before. And he did it through fear of another terrorist attack. Then he somehow pulled off the greatest swindle in history: he shifted our focus from Bin Laden to Hussein, from Afghanistan to Iraq. Amazing that we fell for it as a nation almost wholesale. Over 4,000 Americans and countless Iraqis have died for that swindle. And for what? Is the world a safer place? Have we democratized the Middle East? Is our oil cheaper for it? Did we get all those WMD's out of their hands? How about the WMD's our country has? Wow. Fear is a great tool for getting Americans to embrace illegal torture, because we have to do it to stop the terrorists. Wow. Makes a person proud to be an American: Home of the Waterboarding Wiretappers. What a sick joke. All those mothers with dead kids because of a lie fostered upon us by the Bush Administration. We should all be so proud.
Yeah, I'm really laughing about all that. And yeah, I frelling proud to be a yellow dog Democrat. And yeah, I'm against off-shore drilling. And I believe in global warming. I'm one of those guys that gets demonized by the conservative base. And yes, I'm pretty brassed off about the last 8 years; I knew it from having the guy as a governor in Texas. Somehow, we survived his reign, but we are less as a nation because of it.
Someone needs to hold our country accountable.
So yeah. Four more years of a Republican President is kind of undesirable to me.
If, on the other hand, you were laughing with me: Welcome to the club. Let's vote for change together.
I'm expecting flames and vomit guys and dead horses. Bring it on. I just pray that we can all laugh about this in January as Obama takes control of the country and gets us back on course.
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I'm not sure if you are laughing with me or at me. If it is at me, I wonder why?
I was laughing at you. It was, in my humble opinion, the only sane response.
I just pray that we can all laugh about this in January as Obama takes control of the country and gets us back on course.
That idea makes me want to laugh some more, but it just isn't worth the effort.
At least they're a working democracy.
True. Iran has a working democracy, too, of course.
A working democracy is a term we might not want to explore, though, because America's democracy will come up sooner or later. How do you like your choice of candidates lately?
You might want to consider that although Iran's democracy is not the same as yours, it is progressing.
American and Israeli democracies seem to have hit a wall, and not a wall where they have attained any kind of perfection.
Just sayin'.
Anyways, I'm with Aubs. As an outsider I'm happy that you guys have two choices this time that are worth casting votes for.
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True. Iran has a working democracy, too, of course.
If, by working democracy, you mean a political climate where many who oppose the ruling party are threatened, beaten, thrown in jail, or perhaps killed, then yeah, it works like a charm.
A working democracy is a term we might not want to explore, though, because America's democracy will come up sooner or later. How do you like your choice of candidates lately?
You're correct on this point, insofar as I probably shouldn't have used the term "democracy". The U.S., Israel, and others are likely better considered representative republics, which is probably about as close as you can get to a true democracy.
Generally I suspect that is because we are mostly not armed so when we get mad at each other we have fist fights.
Even if you guys were armed, you'd still have fistfights instead. After all, hockey is the national sport! Fistfights are a cultural legacy (I say this with pride, as someone whose university was close enough to the border to have a hockey team instead of a football team).
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I'm not sure if you are laughing with me or at me. If it is at me, I wonder why?I was laughing at you. It was, in my humble opinion, the only sane response.
That idea makes me want to laugh some more, but it just isn't worth the effort.I just pray that we can all laugh about this in January as Obama takes control of the country and gets us back on course.
I still like you. But I wonder what your definition of sanity is? I just wonder, are you conservative because you are in a higher tax bracket or because you are afraid god will hate you if you are a liberal? Because W has done such a great job so far; why stop now? And I'm the crazy one? Now that does make me laugh.
Man, I just don't get the Conservatives sometimes.
I'm voting for McCain solely because National Healthcare doesn't work, it's failing everywhere it's being used and we shouldn't decide to jump on board.
McCain might want to go to war with Iran, but it'll never get through congress so I'm not worried about it.
Not only is it incorrect that "National Healthcare" is failing all over the world, wherever it's being used, more importantly, nobody is suggesting that the US adopt national healthcare.
And while you may not like National Healthcare, you should note that the only people getting screwed over by the US health system are the sick and injured.
You know the only people who ever actually need medical care.
I still like you. But I wonder what your definition of sanity is? I just wonder, are you conservative because you are in a higher tax bracket or because you are afraid god will hate you if you are a liberal? Because W has done such a great job so far; why stop now? And I'm the crazy one? Now that does make me laugh.
Man, I just don't get the Conservatives sometimes.
This is the kind of behavior that disturbs me. Nothing against you or what you believe in, but what is exactly sane or insane about politics? Right wing, left wing, liberal, conservative, it seems that both sides regard (or disregard) each other as idiots. Why does a political party or ideology make you who you are? And why does it satisfy anyone to belittle someone else's?
I'm not "left", and I'm not "right." I am who I am: an American. No more, no less. I don't vote based on who promises what, who did what, or who didn't do it. What ultimately decides the fate of our country is what our citizens do as a whole. Don't like the price of gasoline? Find an alternative, and pressure the oil companies by hurting their wallets!
The last election saw a vast change in majority from Republicans to Democrats, partially based on a promise for a time table on the gradual withdraw of troops from Iraq. Two years later, there's still no plan, and there's still no time table. Just a lot of b&$&@ing and moaning from the same representatives that were elected. So, what exactly will change with a Democrat as president? Or another Republican for that matter?
I'm voting for McCain solely because National Healthcare doesn't work, it's failing everywhere it's being used and we shouldn't decide to jump on board.
McCain might want to go to war with Iran, but it'll never get through congress so I'm not worried about it.
Not only is it incorrect that "National Healthcare" is failing all over the world, wherever it's being used, more importantly, nobody is suggesting that the US adopt national healthcare.
And while you may not like National Healthcare, you should note that the only people getting screwed over by the US health system are the sick and injured.
You know the only people who ever actually need medical care.
Wohoo, welcome back Sean!
I still like you. But I wonder what your definition of sanity is? I just wonder, are you conservative because you are in a higher tax bracket or because you are afraid god will hate you if you are a liberal? Because W has done such a great job so far; why stop now? And I'm the crazy one? Now that does make me laugh.
Man, I just don't get the Conservatives sometimes.
You realize of course that someone can be "conservative" without being a Republican or "liberal" without being a Democrat? Dubya might have been a Republican but he was not a (fiscal) conservative by any stretch of the imagination. Why would a conservative feel like they had to accept Bush in order to maintain their philosphy? That is like saying a "liberal" has to accept the behaviour of Slick Willy in order to maintain their philosphy, that would be kind of a stupid argument now wouldn't it?
I'm not sure if you are laughing with me or at me. If it is at me, I wonder why?I was laughing at you. It was, in my humble opinion, the only sane response.
That idea makes me want to laugh some more, but it just isn't worth the effort.I just pray that we can all laugh about this in January as Obama takes control of the country and gets us back on course.
I still like you. But I wonder what your definition of sanity is? I just wonder, are you conservative because you are in a higher tax bracket or because you are afraid god will hate you if you are a liberal? Because W has done such a great job so far; why stop now? And I'm the crazy one? Now that does make me laugh.
Man, I just don't get the Conservatives sometimes.
Can you make one statement that doesn't involve a silly stereotype of conservatives?
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This is a pretty cool thread (apart from aberzombie being aggresively patronising). It's really interesting to hear people from other countries talking about their elections.
You should be glad that you're all making positive choices - it looks like here in the UK we're going to have a really negative vote. The incumbent will go because he's lost the plot; rather than the Tory having any great policies.
I would like to point out thought that the British National Health Service in the UK is going great guns (60 years old this year - a legacy of WWII).
The only bad thing is a few of those moments when people abuse the word liberal. I feel like I'm a character from The Princess Bride; "I don't think that word means what you think it means."
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An interesting article I read in the Economist suggests that Americans are now more segregated by interests, lifestyle and politics than ever before, so people never (or rarely) talk to people with differing views. This leads to polarisation and increasing extremism on both sides, and incomprehension about what the other side actually thinks, people are maybe less good at debating the issues, and rarely get their own views challenged.
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You realize of course that someone can be "conservative" without being a Republican or "liberal" without being a Democrat? Dubya might have been a Republican but he was not a (fiscal) conservative by any stretch of the imagination. Why would a conservative feel like they had to accept Bush in order to maintain their philosphy? That is like saying a "liberal" has to accept the behaviour of Slick Willy in order to maintain their philosphy, that would be kind of a stupid argument now wouldn't it?I still like you. But I wonder what your definition of sanity is? I just wonder, are you conservative because you are in a higher tax bracket or because you are afraid god will hate you if you are a liberal? Because W has done such a great job so far; why stop now? And I'm the crazy one? Now that does make me laugh.
Man, I just don't get the Conservatives sometimes.
Yes, I realize that not all conservatives are Republicans and vice versa. It's an easy trap to fall in the trap of interchanging them, and in that respect, I was probably out of line. Good catch. :)
