Hi there, I am new to playing fighters especially in 3.5 and I want to make a fighter that is good at hitting things hard. There has been so much debate in the threads about how nerfed great cleave is I am wondering what feats to go for instead.
The starting feats I took were improved initiative (to get the first hit in), improved trip (because it is a feat I always thought was great although weaker than before) and just because I have never used one and it ties in with my character concept I went for spiked chain as well. The only thing I don't know now is what next.
Any advice welcome.
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What books are you allowed to use?
You could look to enhancements like Charging for your weapon and Rhino hide for armor (+4d6 damage on a charge between the two).
You could use a greatclub, Weapon focus, Power attack, cleave, imp. bullrush, Three mountain style and then any time you hit someone with a greatclub twice in a round they get a fort save (DC=damage dealt) or they are nauseated (move action only, other minuses).
I think there is a Barbarian thing that gives you more than 2-for-1 Power attack, but I forget what the name is.
Be a goliath or other creature with powerful build. Using a large weapon is a decent way to improve damage output and the bonus to strength lets you allocate more points into Power attack.
If you post what books are allowed I can look into feats better.
By hitting hard do you mean on "regular" hits, or on "critical" hits? And in critical hits there is the separation between "massive" and "often".
Regular hits will be greatsword and some of the polearms, from core, and greatspear and greathammer from splatbook.
Massive critical hits will be scythe, heavy pick, and greataxe, from core. Lucerne Hammer from splatbook comes to mind.
Often criticals would be falchion, and the greatsword to some degree.
Spiked chain, while very utilitarian, is not that well suited to a "hit hard" build, unless you have a tactical caveat in there, like "knock him down, then hit him hard".
Backswing, Cleave, Dazzling Display, Deadly Stroke, Devastating Blow, Great Cleave, Improved Vital Strike, Overhand Chop, Power Attack, Stunned Defense, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain), and Weapon Specialization (Spiked Chain) are all worth looking at, IMO. Note that Cleave and Great Cleave gain a lot of benefit from using a reach weapon like a spiked chain. Likewise, using Overhand Chop and Power Attack together results in adding four times your Str modifier to damage on a successful attack (although you lose the Str modifier on the attack roll).
If you want to branch out a bit, Improved Disarm and Improved Sunder are also very effective with a spiked chain.
hmmmm... I think we'll just be using the core rules. I know spiked chain doesn't hit super hard but I have pretty good strength to make up for it. Can you stack power attack and overhand blow? At low levels aren't you still limited by your BAB? Has anyone used backswing and does it stack? It seems like a useful feat. How does the 1/2 str bnus work if you are using a weapon two handed? If you had 18 str would you be getting +2 on your second attack or +3(1/2 your two handedd strenth bonus).
I was thinking about combat reflexes because with a reach weapon people will be entering or leaving my arc of attack quite often and giving away an attack of opportunity. Any thoughts?
Can you stack power attack and overhand blow? At low levels aren't you still limited by your BAB? Has anyone used backswing and does it stack? It seems like a useful feat. How does the 1/2 str bnus work if you are using a weapon two handed? If you had 18 str would you be getting +2 on your second attack or +3(1/2 your two handedd strenth bonus).
In Alpha Release 3, Power Attack is a General feat and Overhand Chop is a Combat Feat, so they stack. Power Attack is limited to the lower of your BAB or your Str modifier. Backswing and Power Attack stack, but Backswing and Overhand Chop (both Combat feats) do not. Backswing reads "1/2 Str bonus," not "1/2 damage bonus," so that would be +2 for 18 Str.
I was thinking about combat reflexes because with a reach weapon people will be entering or leaving my arc of attack quite often and giving away an attack of opportunity. Any thoughts?
Combat Reflexes could be useful, but probably not worth it unless you have a 14+ Dex, IMO. Even then, it's highly situational and relies on your opponents' actions. However, it can be useful when using Cleave or Great Cleave with Improved Trip (standing up draws an Attack of Opportunity and the attacker gains bonuses as if the target is prone).
Combat Reflexes could be useful, but probably not worth it unless you have a 14+ Dex, IMO. Even then, it's highly situational and relies on your opponents' actions. However, it can be useful when using Cleave or Great Cleave with Improved Trip (standing up draws an Attack of Opportunity and the attacker gains bonuses as if the target is prone).
I have 14 dex. Isn't cleave and great cleave only useful IF the opponents are adjacent to each other? How often does that actual happen. If it was any opponent within reach then cleave and great cleave with a spiked chain would be phenomenal. As for the +2 strength on backswing...I am wondering if backswing is anyuse.
Combat Reflexes could be useful, but probably not worth it unless you have a 14+ Dex, IMO. Even then, it's highly situational and relies on your opponents' actions. However, it can be useful when using Cleave or Great Cleave with Improved Trip (standing up draws an Attack of Opportunity and the attacker gains bonuses as if the target is prone).I have 14 dex. Isn't cleave and great cleave only useful IF the opponents are adjacent to each other? How often does that actual happen. If it was any opponent within reach then cleave and great cleave with a spiked chain would be phenomenal. As for the +2 strength on backswing...I am wondering if backswing is anyuse.
With 10 foot reach, you're more likely to have adjacent targets, since "adjacent" can mean behind, in front, or to the side. As long at there is another unattacked target in reach adjacent to the last struck (and you continue to hit), you can keep attacking with Great Cleave. For example, a 10 foot wide hallway with five opponents (X) against the chain-wielder (Q) and another party member (O):
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XXQ
XXXO
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The chain wielder can attack all five opponents in a single round with Great Cleave (assuming he hits his first four targets).
Backswing is useful because it gives you a second attack at your highest bonus, instead of at -5 for the second iterative attack. Coupled with Power Attack, that's still +16 total damage on the first attack and +10 total damage on the second (assuming 18 Str).
I hadn't thought of that. Heh Heh Heh. I might play the character and see how often attacks of opportunity come up and how often adjacent opponents comes up. If I get lots of attacks of opportunity I might go for combat reflexes. If I get lots of adjacent opponents I'll aim for cleave. If I get neither I'll go for backswing to get an extra attack.
Hi there, I am new to playing fighters especially in 3.5 and I want to make a fighter that is good at hitting things hard. There has been so much debate in the threads about how nerfed great cleave is I am wondering what feats to go for instead.
The starting feats I took were improved initiative (to get the first hit in), improved trip (because it is a feat I always thought was great although weaker than before) and just because I have never used one and it ties in with my character concept I went for spiked chain as well. The only thing I don't know now is what next.Any advice welcome.
The chain fighter does not do high damage. I just played one for 2 years up to level 12. (once/twice a month campaign, 7 players) Our party has a paladin using a great axe that has power attack/cleave and he always puts my damage to shame single attack. However as one of the others mentioned, chain fighter is for utility. More often than not I am playing goalie for swarms of monsters trying to get flanks or come after my "squishy" friends... if the paladin goes down, I step up to the plate as main tank until he can get back up. I honestly forget what order I took the feats in, but his theme was Undead (& Giants) Slayer, ala to Castlevania.
Human Chain Fighter/Ranger (3.5)
1 Exotic Weapon Spiked Chain
1 Combat Expertise
1 Improved Trip
2 Combat Reflexes
3 Dodge
4 Mobility
4 Spring Attack
6 Whirlwind
? Deft Opportunist (+4 to hit on all AoO)
Equipment:
+1 Undead Bane Silver Spiked Chain
+2 Styptic Deathward Mithril Full Plate (Magic Item Compendium)
NOTES:
1. The character ended with a 22 Strength. He wasnt required to be the power hitter, but needed a sizeable strength to deal with the Trip attacks.
2. If you want to be really really obnoxious, fix "improved unarmed strike" into you build somewhere, the DM used it on me a few times wit ha reoccuring set of bad guys. If you get counter-tripped (forcing you to let go) or disarmed... you can still fight. The other option which was cheap and I dont think any of my fighters will EVER go without again... Spiked Gauntlets. :D
3. Deft Opportunist is in one of the side books, I dont know off the top of my head and do not have the books in front of me. It goes incredibly well with Combat Reflexes!
I like combat reflexes but with my dex I would only get one extra attack anyway. I had something pretty similar in mind to what you made although I was thinking of heading for the cleave route as well just because an extra attack or two is pretty cool and it is quick to get there. I was going to go for power attack anyway. My thinking was this:
Crank up the power attack.
Hit opponent with trip attack using my CMB (unaffected by my power attack minuses) then whack my target once they are down now that they have a lower armour class to make up for the minuses caused by my power attack on the hit roll. If I went for backhand swing I might even get two monster thumps into them.