From Previews for June and Beyond by Bart Carroll, on the WotC website:
July: D&D Insider
Last month, we ran through the list of preview articles we'd publish every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday leading up to the launch of 4th Edition. This time, we present the following announcement from Chris Youngs:
Dungeon Magazine Announces New Adventure Path
The Elsir Vale has known a decade of peace following the rise of the Red Hand. The valley, as well as the town of Brindol, has flourished after adventurers defeated the threat posed by the hobgoblin armies. But now, from out of the hills to the north, a new threat has emerged. Natives of Brindol have been abducted, and the town’s war museum—dedicated to those fallen in the war against the Red Hand—has been raided and desecrated.
Meanwhile, beyond the Vale, the rumbling rumors of more trouble have begun to surface. Warbands forming in the mountains… Monsters crawling forth from the dark bowels of the world… And people everywhere have begun waking up at night in a cold sweat, uncertain where their feelings of dismay and panic come from…
The Scales of War Adventure Path will premiere in Dungeon #156, July 2008, with the 1st-level adventure “Rescue at Rivenroar,” by Wizards of the Coast designer David Noonan. Scales of War will continue each month in Dungeon, taking characters from 1st level all the way to 30th over the course of 18 adventures, spanning 18 months. This is the most ambitious Adventure Path in Dungeon’s history, and will take full advantage of the versatility of the new 4th Edition D&D rules. Support articles will appear regularly in Dragon, beginning with issue #366, August 2008.
Watch D&D Insider for more details in the coming weeks!
Blasphemy.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Hmm, while this could be interesting, i am not going to buy 4th Edition just for the AP.
Err... can they even call this an adventure path? I thought that term belonged to Paizo, but i might be mistaken, or there might be some arcane licensing involved (Paizo giving up all rights to the magazines to WoTC, this might affect the trademark? Not a lawyer...)
Creative Director
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Hmm, while this could be interesting, i am not going to buy 4th Edition just for the AP.
Err... can they even call this an adventure path? I thought that term belonged to Paizo, but i might be mistaken, or there might be some arcane licensing involved (Paizo giving up all rights to the magazines to WoTC, this might affect the trademark? Not a lawyer...)
Nah; it's all good. We have elected not to pursue a trademark of "Adventure Path," since it's such a handy name for ANYone to use. Although the phrase was used at WotC in-house for their first 3.0 adventures, it wasn't used in any real public way until Dungeon's Shackled City Adventure Path.
So yah! Anyone can use it!
I'm actually VERY interested to check this out, though... I more than anyone know how tough it is to wrangle an entire Adventure Path together. An 18 part one over as many months? WotC's got their work cut out for them! And it's a sequel to Red Hand of Doom too! So honestly... it following in the footsteps of a type of campaign model I helped refine and create in Dungeon AND it being a sequal to an adventure I helped write (wrote about 75% of, in fact) is kinda a nice compliment, honestly! :)
I just hope they know what they're getting themselves into with those adventure path things... they're a lot of work!
I'm actually VERY interested to check this out, though... I more than anyone know how tough it is to wrangle an entire Adventure Path together. An 18 part one over as many months? WotC's got their work cut out for them! And it's a sequel to Red Hand of Doom too! So honestly... it following in the footsteps of a type of campaign model I helped refine and create in Dungeon AND it being a sequal to an adventure I helped write (wrote about 75% of, in fact) is kinda a nice compliment, honestly! :)
And an awesome adventure that was, sir.
Here's to hoping you guys eventually get around to making more awesome adventures for 4e..
Cheers
Glee.
Just some information for those who may not know:
David Noonan, the author of the first adventure in the 4e adventure path, wrote two adventures for the Shackled City Adventure Path:
"Zenith Trajectory" and "Test of the Smoking Eye"
I really enjoyed both of these adventures, and as I think about some of the encounters in them, I think they could really shine with the new 4e rules.
In "Zenith Trajectory" you have encounters against "solo monsters" and others involving the roles of "controller," "soldier," and "lurker." There are several encounters that would benefit from the "minion" rules, too.
There are places in "Test of the Smoking Eye" that would obviously work well as skill challenges, and the terrain features could be used in interesting ways.
I can honestly say that I enjoyed the role-playing elements that these adventures provided, and the combat and non-combat encounters in them as well.
I think that David Noonan could make an engaging adventure, using all the 4e mechanics, and introduce a new AP with intriguing story elements and memorable NPCs.
My biggest hope is that WotC provides better "setting flavor" for this AP than they did for "Keep on the Shadowfell."
This is a great piece of marketing by WOTC. While I think 18 months is too long, an adventure path springboarding from an excellent 3.5 minicampaign/AP. I guess if you are going to wheel something out to compete with paizo's style of adventure presentation it would be smart to do it utilising a campaign area initially substantially designed by Mr Jacobs.
Cant critisize the marketing smarts on this one.
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Creative Director
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I would be surprised if some Paizoans don't end up writing bits of it.
I actually would, to be honest. We're pretty swamped & busy doing our own Adventure Path stuff lately. Anything's possible, I suppose, though...
Myself... I'm pretty fond of Pathfinder. It'd probably take an awful lot to woo me away from it to work on other stuff these days, be that just developing/editing adventures for it, or actually writing adventures for it.
(also... I think I might actually be allergic to writing adventures in Delve Format)
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This is actually an awesome thing for me and my gaming groups. I'm running two versions of RHoD right now, in fact, for two different groups. One is running the adventure "as writen", and the other is running a great deal of the other encounters suggested by the source material parallel to the original storyline. Eventually both will end up at the battle of Brindol fighting side by side.
We all want to try out 4E and have decided after the RHoD game is done that we are going to do so. This AP, if it doesnt suck, will be a pretty cool way to keep the characters grounded for a ransition between editions.
I love Red Hand of Doom so much and I always wanted a sequel, but I'm pretty sure this isn't what I had in mind. I guess you could always loot and pillage it for conversion to 3.P...I dunno, I'd rather have Jacobs on point.
At least they're adding some definite value to the Dungeon e-magazine; I bet this'll bring in some more readers.
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At least they're adding some definite value to the Dungeon e-magazine; I bet this'll bring in some more readers.
They better have a lot of disposable cash because running this would be very expensive. You're looking at several sets of ink or toner cartridges plus a ream of paper just to print it out. Then you have to factor in at least an 18 month subscription to DDI at 15 bucks a month plus buying the three core books. Literally hundreds of dollars to play this AP. It's ridiculously overpriced compared to the print version AP's that would cost you about 84 dollars for the whole AP.
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I'm not too excited. I'm not that impressed with what WotC's been putting out as adventures since it reclaimed Dungeon. (And the new Keep on the Shadowdell was too much dungeon crawl for me.) I like environment. I like social backdrop. I like NPCs with depth. And I like the richness of the story setting. My money stays with Paizo.
It will be very interesting to see if WotC can publish an AP with 1 adventure per month for 18 straight months. They haven't shown much competence so far with Dungeon.
As an example, Touch of Madness is part one of a three part mini-campaign to help people wrap up their 3rd Edition campaigns before 4th Edition arrives. It was put onto the website on March 12. Three months later, with 4e coming out tomorrow, parts two and three are still missing.
If WotC can't handle a three part adventure, it's hard to believe they can handle an 18 part adventure with all the additional complications of an Adventure Path.
They better have a lot of disposable cash because running this would be very expensive. You're looking at several sets of ink or toner cartridges plus a ream of paper just to print it out.
Print everything out? What is this -- the Stone Age? Next you'll be telling me that you use a baby elephant for a vacuum cleaner.
(Just kidding! :)
As an example, Touch of Madness is part one of a three part mini-campaign to help people wrap up their 3rd Edition campaigns before 4th Edition arrives. It was put onto the website on March 12. Three months later, with 4e coming out tomorrow, parts two and three are still missing.
Well, their web/DI (or whatever) department doesn't seem to be very competent...
Just as an example, on the front page of their website, the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master Guide and Monster Manual are still announced for next month.Hey, DI guys, we ARE in june. Your books are out !
Aren't they supposed to update their front page, at least once a month ?
Talk about communication.
Talk about a Digital Initiative.
/sigh
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Actually, parts 2 and 3 were supposed to be 4e adventures, hence the delay.
Really? I've never seen anything that said that. where is that from? My understanding was that the trilogy was supposed to help wrap up a 3E campaign.
There are also other 3E adventures that were supposed to be in the pipe that haven't seen the light of day yet. I'm very curious to see what happens with them.
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This is good news for the 4E crowd! I'm going to be telling my friends about this... I never ran Red Hand of Doom, but heard about all the awesome. And considering who wrote it...
Good to know that 4E players won't have to rely on Keep on the Shadowfell for a cool 4E campaign.
There are also other 3E adventures that were supposed to be in the pipe that haven't seen the light of day yet. I'm very curious to see what happens with them.
Such as?
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Actually, parts 2 and 3 were supposed to be 4e adventures, hence the delay.Really? I've never seen anything that said that. where is that from? My understanding was that the trilogy was supposed to help wrap up a 3E campaign.
There are also other 3E adventures that were supposed to be in the pipe that haven't seen the light of day yet. I'm very curious to see what happens with them.
I can't remember, to be honest, but I'm sure I read in the online Dungeon (quite possibly in the editorial, or even the adventure itself) that parts 2 and 3 were always intended to be 4e.
Actually, parts 2 and 3 were supposed to be 4e adventures, hence the delay.
Sorry, but you're wrong on this...
"In the future, this adventure, and the two in this adventure arc that follow in the coming weeks, will be updated to 4th Edition."
This is from page 3 of the adventure, bottom right hand corner in the section titled "Who the heck is Ioun?"
Something else I just noticed. The article has "Dungeon January/February 2008" at the bottom of each page, but the article wasn't posted until March.
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There are also other 3E adventures that were supposed to be in the pipe that haven't seen the light of day yet. I'm very curious to see what happens with them.Such as?
Well... the one I wrote.
It's mentioned in the #153 overview in and oblique way. It involves exploring an anthill, among other things.
If WotC can't handle a three part adventure, it's hard to believe they can handle an 18 part adventure with all the additional complications of an Adventure Path.
True, true. They've taken what was built up to a monthly publication and in nine months have turned out 4 issues (and that's being generous. Really 3 + a bit more). Not inspiring lots of confidence.
Err... can they even call this an adventure path? I thought that term belonged to Paizo, but i might be mistaken, or there might be some arcane licensing involved (Paizo giving up all rights to the magazines to WoTC, this might affect the trademark? Not a lawyer...)
I believe the term was first attributed to WotC's Sunless Citadel series of adventures.
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Well... the one I wrote.
It's mentioned in the #153 overview in and oblique way. It involves exploring an anthill, among other things.
When you mentioned #153, it took a moment for me to remember that Dungeon didn't actually stop at #150.
This is an interesting question, though: What will happen to all the 3E adventures waiting to be published? Will they ask the authors to convert them to 4E? Will they just be dropped? I guess we'll find out soon enough... when do 4E Dungeon and Dragon magazines begin, anyway?
Also, that sounds like a very cool premise to an adventure!
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This is an interesting question, though: What will happen to all the 3E adventures waiting to be published? Will they ask the authors to convert them to 4E? Will they just be dropped? I guess we'll find out soon enough... when do 4E Dungeon and Dragon magazines begin, anyway?
Believe me, I want to know these answers more than you! ;-)
Also, that sounds like a very cool premise to an adventure!
Thanks! There's a bit more to it, but I can't really give more details (I don't think).
I too have a pending 3.5e adventure over at WoTC. I emailed Chris Youngs about it last week and he told me that right now all his attention is focused on the pending 4e conversion on 6-6. I was told that if he couldn't fit it in this week, it would be released after the launch as a 3.5e adventure, so it looks like there will be some cross-over for the first month.
I find it hard to believe that given the poor management and release schedules in the current Dungeon/Dragon that WotC will be able to handle a tight release schedule of 18 adventures plus additional content. Not from what I've seen so far. Releasing an AP is a lot more than just signing on a few star writers and hoping the whole things gels together at the last minute.
And as someone mentioned above, the expense of printing this huge thing is being passed on to the customer.
I'm also one of the few people who didn't like RHoD (sorry, James; maybe it was the inexperience of the DM running it), so it's no attraction to me. Farewell, DI.
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Actually, parts 2 and 3 were supposed to be 4e adventures, hence the delay.Sorry, but you're wrong on this...
"In the future, this adventure, and the two in this adventure arc that follow in the coming weeks, will be updated to 4th Edition."
This is from page 3 of the adventure, bottom right hand corner in the section titled "Who the heck is Ioun?"
Something else I just noticed. The article has "Dungeon January/February 2008" at the bottom of each page, but the article wasn't posted until March.
Ah, I stand corrected.
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I too have a pending 3.5e adventure over at WoTC. I emailed Chris Youngs about it last week and he told me that right now all his attention is focused on the pending 4e conversion on 6-6. I was told that if he couldn't fit it in this week, it would be released after the launch as a 3.5e adventure, so it looks like there will be some cross-over for the first month.
Good to know! Thanks!
Can't wait for it!! I see great things for 4E.
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I too have a pending 3.5e adventure over at WoTC. I emailed Chris Youngs about it last week and he told me that right now all his attention is focused on the pending 4e conversion on 6-6. I was told that if he couldn't fit it in this week, it would be released after the launch as a 3.5e adventure, so it looks like there will be some cross-over for the first month.
Good news, indeed! Here's hoping that these adventures will be relatively inexpensive, or, perhaps even... free?
I just read something interesting about a DDM tactics article WotC just put up today. According to the author (a well known member of the DDM community), it was written months ago as a 1.0 article. WotC updated the article to DDM 2.0, without consulting the author, and made a number of 2.0 rules mistakes.
The author's post can be found on Hordelings.
Unfortunately, this is not the first time WotC has posted a 1.0 tactics article that has been only partially updated to 2.0.
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I too have a pending 3.5e adventure over at WoTC. I emailed Chris Youngs about it last week and he told me that right now all his attention is focused on the pending 4e conversion on 6-6. I was told that if he couldn't fit it in this week, it would be released after the launch as a 3.5e adventure, so it looks like there will be some cross-over for the first month.Good to know! Thanks!
Sheesh, it's just about the money for you guys....
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I find it hard to believe that given the poor management and release schedules in the current Dungeon/Dragon that WotC will be able to handle a tight release schedule of 18 adventures plus additional content. Not from what I've seen so far. Releasing an AP is a lot more than just signing on a few star writers and hoping the whole things gels together at the last minute.
While I don't entirely disagree, Chris Youngs/Thomasson actually did the first one (SCAP) in paper Dungeon, so he knows a thing or two about it. Personally, I'll reserve judgement.
At least they're adding some definite value to the Dungeon e-magazine; I bet this'll bring in some more readers.They better have a lot of disposable cash because running this would be very expensive. You're looking at several sets of ink or toner cartridges plus a ream of paper just to print it out. Then you have to factor in at least an 18 month subscription to DDI at 15 bucks a month plus buying the three core books. Literally hundreds of dollars to play this AP. It's ridiculously overpriced compared to the print version AP's that would cost you about 84 dollars for the whole AP.
The $10 (if you subscribe, and if you need 18 months of AP's, why wouldn't you) the DDI costs, gives you a lot more than just the DDI. Your comparison isn't quiet fair.
For those who do not wish to use the DDI, it has been mentioned that it will (most likely) be possible to purchase PDF's of Dragon and Dungeon separately, one a month. Price hasn't been mentioned yet.
Also, including the core rules in the cost is also a bit odd, since most people who want to play a game will buy at least the PHB (and where is the proof that you need the DM and the MM to run an AP?)
So, if you want to compare, its $180 vs 84. Even that is arguable, since I assume the 84 is a number taken from the PF AP's. WotC's AP will span 30 levels, and not 16, so will therefore arguably be longer, and thus more expensive. Possibly. Maybe. Either way, your comparison is a gross exaggeration.
Cheers
DDI isnt 15 bucks a month unless you are doing it in one-month chunks. You can get half-year or full year plans for cheaper. Consider that an individual print copy of a Pathfinder adventure is over $20 a pop when you factor in shipping and even $15 a month for an adventure plus additional content isnt that bad: its actually less than what I was paying for an issue of Pathfinder with the GameMastery module.
I know some people arent satisfied with either Dungeon or Dragon, despite it not being out or paying a dime for it, but thats why they are probably doing a trial period on it: see if it works before you pay.
At least they're adding some definite value to the Dungeon e-magazine; I bet this'll bring in some more readers.They better have a lot of disposable cash because running this would be very expensive. You're looking at several sets of ink or toner cartridges plus a ream of paper just to print it out. Then you have to factor in at least an 18 month subscription to DDI at 15 bucks a month plus buying the three core books. Literally hundreds of dollars to play this AP. It's ridiculously overpriced compared to the print version AP's that would cost you about 84 dollars for the whole AP.
Huh??
Why would I need to print the entire Adventure Path? I could just keep my laptop up (as I always do) during the game session, print off the things I want to use as handouts - such as maps - and reference my laptop when need be. In addition, that will probably be made into a searchable .pdf which allows me to find things easier.
Maybe you could just invest in some technology my friend.
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Sheesh, it's just about the money for you guys....I too have a pending 3.5e adventure over at WoTC. I emailed Chris Youngs about it last week and he told me that right now all his attention is focused on the pending 4e conversion on 6-6. I was told that if he couldn't fit it in this week, it would be released after the launch as a 3.5e adventure, so it looks like there will be some cross-over for the first month.Good to know! Thanks!
That'$ why we're in the lucrative field of RPG freelancing!
(There's a reason they call it FREElancing)
For me, it's all about the fame! ;-P
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Let's see. Lug around a laptop. Hope you remember to charge it. Hope the wireless connection is working at your friend's house. Endless, time-consuming scrolling through pages to find what you want, or I could take the one Dungeon magazine or other pre-made adventure with me and turn to the page I need in a few seconds. From my experience using a laptop is very hit or miss and generally not worth the trouble so you can look cool and organized, when in fact the exact opposite is true. It may not be the case for everyone, but in my opinion, good-old fashioned books and magazines beat out a laptop any day as far as being user-friendly goes.