The only thing I "dislike" is, that Pathfinder isn't a fixed 3.5e, but another d20 game.
But it seems it will be a rather good one that has many nice offers for 3.5e houserules for my group.
All good, but while we are combining skill checks, I say we get rid of them. Dump them all. Just use ability modifiers, bonuses due to magic and class skills and roll. That kind of sounds like C&C doesnt it? Not for me darlin!
1. You can hide well because you wear cammo and sit still. So from a distance, someone who cant smell you and cant hear you breathing, cant spot you. Take a look at the big eight-point buck I shot last year....
2. You hide well because you wear cammo and sit still. So up close you cant hide your sweaty armpit stink, so the deer backs off. He never spotted you because he cant see well. He did however smell you. Can we combine the skills? Up close you can. But at a distance, smell didnt matter.
3. You hide with your cammo on and sit still. You dont smell at all, and you sit still. Deer cant see you, smell you, or hear you. But, your buddy hunting next to you sees you real easy. Unlike the deer, he can see in color and spots your orange hunters vest right away. Your buddy could not smell you or hear you. See, you just cant combine them. The squirel hanging up-side down next to you....he can hear your heat beating, but he did not care much anyway.
You cannot combine them. Also, let me point out that perception, being used different ways, still amounts to lumping them together. You cant give all of them; search, spot, listen the same values for each creature, person, etc.
Searching, uses intelligence. Why? Cause the person doing the searching has to be clever enough to know where to look. Listening takes ears but dang sense at all. I just cant wrap my head around lumping them together.
I understand why, it streamlined the game, it also loses something. BUT...does combining them really streamline it? Really?
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Yes, I believe it does. You just need to account for the fact that distance is going to have a larger effect on perception checks than in 3.5 because touch and smell (and taste!) don't work well for humans at a distance. Increase the DC for perception at a distance at a faster rate than you increased the DCs for Listen and Spot, and viola!
the consolidation of skills should, in relatively short order, simplify play, and it also increases the relative importance of skill points for skill monkey characters. Honestly, I think it, along with the new skill point rules, is an extremely elegant solution. There are minor areas that might be worth a quibble or two, but I think it stands up to scrutiny and ease of play on multiple levels very favorably.
The skills in a particular game reflect the "reality" the designers and GameMaster are trying to simulate. For example, the old World of Darkness games had different ability lists, because Cainites needed acting and seduction, while garou were more interested in leadership and cosmology.
It would be nice if D&D rules explicitly allowd the GM to condense some skills and break others ot, depending on the campaign she wanted to run.
This is a great idea because its actually very easy to do. On the whole all you need is a character sheet option that has a blank skill list, a few simple suggestions at the back of the book (all optional). Moreover it is prob. already done in just about evey game. Lest everyone I've ran or played or just seen. Certain people in this discussion remind me of what I used to dislike about D&D players:
"I only play 1st"
"I only play 2nd."
"I only play AD&D"
"I only play AD&D 2nd."
Now
"I only play 3.0"
"I only play 3.5"
Soon
"I only play 4.0, 4.5, or the computer game formaly known as D&D"
For what its worth this idea at lest gives the best of all worlds to everyone.
3.5ers you may now start screaming that this idea isn't 3.5
This is NOT 3.5!!!!!!
3.5? This is PATHFINDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
The only thing worse than Nazis...zombie Nazis, or, dare I mention them lest they hear....SMURF Nazis!!!Smurf Nazis must Die!!!!
ROFL!
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On the one hand, I can see Aaron's point about the mountain climber who shouldn't be a great tumbler, but on the other hand you could apply this same logic to the 3.5 SRD skills.
Appraise: Why should a professional jeweler with years of experience evaluating gems have the same talent for appraising tapestries?
Bluff: Why should an actor with years of experience selling an emotion be adept at feinting with a sword? Why should a warrior with years of experience reading and reacting to foes, who has learned to manipulate and lead them into providing openings with false thrusts and quick footing changes (i.e. feinting) be an expert liar?
And so on.
I like Perception. I like one die roll vrs one die roll, rather than two die rolls vs two die rolls. When a unit of 10 orcs goes rushing past the hiding halfling, its a pain in the ass to roll ten times, let alone twenty. When it's twenty times against two different numbers using two different modifiers, it turns into a honest-to-god chore.
So yeah, I like Perception. I like it a lot. I even like that Search was rolled into it, as I didn't think having Search separated out really added anything to the game. I found it just created confusion -- many OGL adventures I've read seem to use Spot and Search checks interchangeably.
I'm not so hot on some of the other combinations. I'd like to see Swim, Climb and Jump rolled into Athletics (STR skills) and Tumble and Balance rolled into Acrobatics (DEX skills). I'd like to see Concentration come back, and see Spellcraft's duties divided up between Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion), and Knowledge (Psionics).
"McBane to Ground control, McBane to Ground control. Being attacked by... comunist-nazis!"
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
Oops...
** spoiler omitted **
Especially when noone has posted for more than 24 hours before.
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And again, I am NOT trolling. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a troll.
I personally don't care if my beliefs are expressed in an inflammatory manner. Otherwise its impossible to be heard. Say what you will about civility, in the end nobody listens to a quiet person regardless of what people try to say.
You apparently haven't spent too much time on these boards, then. This isn't RPGnet or the WotC boards; we're a pretty friendly and laid-back bunch around here for the most part. We'll listen to what you have to say more if it's not incendiary. (If nothing else, a more civil tone makes it easier to figure out exactly what it is you're saying.) And if you truly believe in life that you must be hostile to be heard, expect a lot of very negative attention from pretty much everyone you meet and possibly some jail time. Also, expect to miss out on having love and friends a bit, too. Paizo hasn't lied, they've just put together something that's a little further from your personal preferences than you'd like. I can understand that (though I don't empathize with it) but the real comparisons between PRPG and 4e are flavor and compatibility. It's probably easier to think of PRPG as 3.75 or even an alternate-history 4e where WotC didn't try to scrap the system and flavor and start from scratch. The changes are to about the same level as 3.5 was from 3.0, which is to say not insignificant, but not so different that you can't use the old stuff. For instance, in 3.5, they added extra class abilities and skill point, gave a few classes more good saving throws, consolidated the skill list, adjusted the hit dice of a few classes, changed the weapon size rules, rewrote a number of spells to balance them better or make them more fun, dropped some creature types, switched out the favored class of a race, changed the mechanical abilities for at least one, changed how DR works, etc. But underneath, it was still the same basic framework; rolled skill checks, attacks, and saving throws, the same 3 BAB progressions, vancian magic - you get the idea. That's what the PRPG is to 3.5. Not exactly the same thing, but close enough to use the old stuff with and certainly not so different you can't recognize it.
I think we've let this go on long enough.