Paladin's ride skill

[Zelligar]

With the dex-based skills all taking armor check penalties, I don't see how a paladin is expected to ride his/her mount.

Paladins need charisma, strength, constitution and wisdom, so dexterity and intelligence aren't typically big bonus abilities for them. Low dexterity and/or intelligence, heavy armor, and only 2 base skill points per level=really bad ride scores.

Am I missing something?

A simple solution would be a class feature that says paladins don't take armor penalties on ride checks. There may already be one somewhere but I couldn't find it.

[quest-master]

Since the paladin's mount is intelligent with an empathic bond to the paladin, basic riding and riding into combat or keeping the mount from tossing the paladin off of it is less of an issue.
Guiding with knees and staying in saddle requires only a 5.
Fast dismount is where the Ride skill may seem to become important for a paladin (20 DC) but the paladin can still mount/dismount normally as a move action. The mount then uses its move action to move the paladin to attack target.

[hogarth]

I agree; they shouldn't have added Armor Check Penalty to Ride. It worked just fine in 3.5.

[Gnome Ninja]

Maybe, on the mount table, Paladins should get a supernatural bonus to Ride when riding their special mount. For every tier on the table, they get a cumulative +2 bonus. Ideas?

[Malkari Durant]

Another idea is that a paladin gains ranks in Ride like the bard gains ranks in a Knowledge skill once they acquire their mount (starting at 5th level they gain 1 rank in ride at every level), but this only applies to ride checks made with their mount.

[Gnome Ninja]

Malkari Durant wrote:

Another idea is that a paladin gains ranks in Ride like the bard gains ranks in a Knowledge skill once they acquire their mount (starting at 5th level they gain 1 rank in ride at every level), but this only applies to ride checks made with their mount.

Instead of ranks, maybe just a bonus to Ride checks equal to Paladin level +3. Since you are just gaining ranks that only apply to certain situations, making it ranks is hard to justify.

[DeadDMWalking]

I agree that Ride should not have an Armor Check Penalty. Of course, it was the only Dex based skill that did not have a penalty. It is much 'simpler' to say 'all strength and dexterity based skills suffer an armor check penalty. I like the ease of that.

So, I will repeat my plea from Alpha 1 - change the ability modifier for Ride. There are good arguments for Intelligence, and Charisma instead of Dexterity. Personally, I like Wisdom. Both Charisma and Wisdom make 'sense' as the ability to relate to the animal is a big part of the Ride ability, and they would both tend to favor Paladins over, say, Fighters.

Just a thought.

[michigan]

DeadDMWalking wrote:

I agree that Ride should not have an Armor Check Penalty. Of course, it was the only Dex based skill that did not have a penalty. It is much 'simpler' to say 'all strength and dexterity based skills suffer an armor check penalty. I like the ease of that.

Many, if not most, of the uses of the Ride skill fall into the catagory of "trick riding." These are all feats of coordination, timing, andflexibiltiy on the rider's part... not so much the mounts. Hence, Dexterity makes the most sense imho.

However, I see no inherent difficult in having Ride be an exception to the armor check penality rule. It's only one skill out of, what, thirty total? One needs to be able to remember all the other uses of the skill anyway, and to be honest, the only way I or any of my players can remember armor check penalties is with the little superscript notation of our character sheets.

Men have been wearing heavy armor and charing into combat on horseback for a few dozen centuries now. I think we've more or less proven that it doesn't get signifigantly harder for a properly trainned calvaryman...

And if you ask me Armor Proficency + Ride Skill = Proper Training.

[KaeYoss]

Get rid of armour check penalty again, and it's all fine again.

[Locworks]

Maybe we're getting on our high horses over what may be an oversight rather than a rule change:

1. Alpha 2 Designer Notes: Unchanged Skills, p. 52
As of this release of the Pathfinder RPG, the following
skills have not changed from the way that they work in the
3.5 ruleset: [..]Ride[...]

2. Alpha 3, p. 53
Table 5–3: Altered Skills
(no Ride)

3. I'm aware of Alpha 3, p. 53
Table 5–2: Skill Check Bonuses
Armor check penalty applies to all Strength and Dexterity-based skill checks.

4. According to the 3.5 SRD, of all the Ride actions requiring a check, only Fast mount or dismount has an armour check penalty. If Ride is not on the altered skills list and has been explicitly stated to work in the same way as in 3.5

If the special rule (no AC penalty except for fast mount/dismount) overrides (as it usually does) the general rule (penalty to all Strength and Dexterity skill checks), we're in the same spot as in 3.5 and the paladin is back in the saddle.

[Mosaic]

michigan wrote:

Men have been wearing heavy armor and charing into combat on horseback for a few dozen centuries now. I think we've more or less proven that it doesn't get signifigantly harder for a properly trainned calvaryman...

I'm not expert, but isn't calvary armor different? When I think of heavy armor on a horse I'm thinking of jousts and those guys just sit there and fall. Nobody is doing any kind of special tricks.

I too like the blanket [b]all[/] Str and Dex check get armor check penalties. I'd be fine with Paladins getting a special ability, or a feat that reduced armor check penalties. Is that part of armor training already?

Oh, and I advocate 4 skill points/level, so a Fighter who does want to take ranks could.

One other though. If Ride were to become a Cha skill for the reasons DeadDMWalking suggested (mostly getting your mount to do tricks), then there is no reason not to roll it into Handle Animals. I'm sure other people use it, but my players rarely put ranks into Ride because it doesn't come up that often. It's not a perfect fit, but investment to utility-wise, it might make sense.

[DracoDruid]

I like the idea of the Holy Mount keeping an eye on his human companion and will prevent him from falling.

So give the Paladin a nice bonus on all ride checks in regard to his mount.
(+5, +10, always "take 10", +1/2 paladin level, or some combination)

[michigan]

Equipment in D&D has never been especially granular, like it might be in Shadowrun say... There isn't Horseman's Full Plate Armor or Footman's Chain Hauberk. There is just one type of any give armor from a mechanical standpoint. From a narrative perspective, I just kind of assume that a dedicated calvaryman is going to purchase wear appropriate armor.

That said, I have no problem seeing Ride folded into Handle Animal. But I have maintined for years that no game system needs more than ten to twenty skills.

(As an aside, if you are comparing RenFaire jousting to actual jousting, you're losing out. One is an weekend entertainment, the other was a bloodsport. Comparing jousts to warfare also loses out, one was a sport the other was warfare.)