Because I feel that psionics can have a very real role in some fantasy campaigns, and I also feel that injecting a "psionic" like character into the PFRPG should take up as little room as possible, I would like to suggest the following bloodline for the Sorcerer class... the Psychic bloodline!
PSYCHIC
Your bloodline has always had the ability to touch the minds of others with just a thought and some willpower. While many of your relatives are simply gifted with incredible charisma, you possess true powers of the mind.
Class Skill: Sense Motive.
Bonus Spells: charm person (3rd), detect thoughts (5th), suggestion (7th), charm monster (9th), telepathic bond (11th), dominate person (13th), mass suggestion (15th), mass charm monster (17th), dominate monster (19th).
Bonus Feats: Combat Casting, Iron Will, Negotiator, Persuasive, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus, Still Spell.
Bloodline Powers: The powers of the mind seem yours to command, but you alone realize that you must practice your innate powers to gain full mastery of them.
Mind Thrust (Su): Starting at 1st level, you can deliver a massive assault on the thought pathways of any one creature within 30 feet as a standard action, targeting said creature with a ranged touch attack. This force ray delivers 1d6 points of damage +1 for every two caster levels you possess.
Psychic Resistance (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain a +1 bonus to save rolls against mind-influencing effects that stacks with all other bonuses. This bonus increases by +1 at 7th level and again every four levels thereafter, for a total of a +5 bonus at 19th level.
Id Insinuation (Su): At 9th level, you can affect a single creature within 30 feet as per the confusion spell, except that you must maintain concentration to maintain the effect.
Telekinetic Flight (Su): At 15th level, you gain the ability to telekinetically fly, as per the fly spell. You must maintain concentration to maintain the effect.
Psychic Awakening (Su): At 20th level, you realize your full psychic potential. You gain full immunity to all mind-influencing spells and effects. All critical strikes made against you are confirmed only on a roll of a natural 20. You gain telepathy with a range of 60 feet.
Any and all criticisms and suggestions are welcome!
Because I feel that psionics can have a very real role in some fantasy campaigns, and I also feel that injecting a "psionic" like character into the PFRPG should take up as little room as possible, I would like to suggest the following bloodline for the Sorcerer class... the Psychic bloodline!
Yes! What a great idea! Brilliant! Simply brilliant! I hope that this thread gets picked up. :o)
That said, I'm not too sure about the abilities chosen. There should be an even split between ESP-esque and Charm-type bonus spells. The bloodline should cover more than 1 psychic archetype if possible. Also the 20th level power:
Psychic Awakening (Su): At 20th level, you realize your full psychic potential. You gain full immunity to all mind-influencing spells and effects. All critical strikes made against you are confirmed only on a roll of a natural 20. You gain telepathy with a range of 60 feet.
needs a little work to make it more 'mental' in flavor, in the middle.
"You gain full immunity to all mind-influencing spells and effects." - good!"All critical strikes made against you are confirmed only on a roll of a natural 20." - bad - needs to be 'mental' not 'physical'.
"You gain telepathy with a range of 60 feet." - good!
All the other bits, skills, feats, etc. look great - well done! Perhaps someone with more of an eye for mechanics could check this over?
Awesome work!
Peace,
tfad
|
Define the mind thrust to be a mind-affecting effect, with typeless damage, or reduce the damage. Force damage is a bit too overpowering for an at-will (all the other at-wills are an energy type for their damage, and VERY few things have resistance to force, as well as force's massive benefits vs. ethereal creatures), unless you make it a force effect AND dial the damage down to a d4 +1 per 2 sorcerer levels.
Psychic Awakening (Su): At 20th level, you realize your full psychic potential. You gain full immunity to all mind-influencing spells and effects. All critical strikes made against you are confirmed only on a roll of a natural 20. You gain telepathy with a range of 60 feet.
Okay, so I just took a couple of minutes out and looked through the Alpha 3 and the PHB to try to come up with a good substitute. How about, using the Fey Bloodline as a base, something like this:
Psychic Awakening (Su): At 20th level, you realize your full psychic potential. You gain full immunity to all mind-influencing spells and effects. You gain telepathy with a range of 120 feet. Once per day you may cast either True Seeing or Mass Suggestion as a bonus spell. Once this choice has been made it cannot be changed.
PCs then get the choice as to which one of the two 'psychic archetypes' most easily covered by spells, that they want to emulate. Also, I have increased the range of the telepathy as it is not two way, i.e. the character has to contact the target or actively listen for mental shouts before any information can be exchanged.
Still not too sure about the bonus spell list though. Just didn't want to criticize without offering an alternative. :o)
Peace,
tfad
Define the mind thrust to be a mind-affecting effect, with typeless damage, or reduce the damage. Force damage is a bit too overpowering for an at-will (all the other at-wills are an energy type for their damage, and VERY few things have resistance to force, as well as force's massive benefits vs. ethereal creatures), unless you make it a force effect AND dial the damage down to a d4 +1 per 2 sorcerer levels.
Missed that - good catch!
I have a strong dislike for making Arcane Magic and Psionics intermixed beyond the Psionic-Magic Transparency that allows them to counter each other. I think they should stay seperated same as Divine Magic, Arcane Magic and Ki are seperated. I think the Psychic Bloodline uncomfortably blurs these lines. If one is going to begin with making a distinction between Arcane and Divine magic then that division should continue with Ki and Psionics myself. The option is to go with magic is magic and use an effects based system that turns arcane/divine/ki/psionics more into how you do something than what youare doing (similar to Savage World's Arcane Backgrounds), but that breaks with backwards compatibility in the extreme. So I would personally be against the Psychic Bloodline unless it was renamed and linked to ancestry/links with creatures noted for mental powers that are magical in origin and not psionic.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I've taken them all seriously, including Stormcrowe's. Trust me, if I believed for a moment that Paizo would include enough actual psionics rules to make the psion class viable, I wouldn't waste time with this. As it stands, it'll be easier to ask for an additional 3/4 of a column worth of text for the Sorcerer than to try to include true psionics.
As for the other suggesions thus far, here's a slightly revised version of my entry...
PSYCHIC
Your bloodline has always had the ability to touch the minds of others with just a little bit of magic. While many of your relatives are simply gifted with incredible charisma, you possess true magical powers of the mind.
Class Skill: Sense Motive.
Bonus Spells: charm person (3rd), detect thoughts (5th), suggestion (7th), charm monster (9th), telepathic bond (11th), dominate person (13th), mass suggestion (15th), mass charm monster (17th), dominate monster (19th).
Bonus Feats: Eschew Material Components, Iron Will, Negotiator, Persuasive, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus, Still Spell.
Bloodline Powers: The powers of the mind seem yours to command, but you alone realize that you must practice your innate powers to gain full mastery of them.
- Mind Thrust (Su): Starting at 1st level, you can deliver a massive assault on the thought pathways of any one creature within 30 feet as a standard action, targeting said creature with a ranged touch attack. This force ray delivers 1d4 points of damage +1 for every two caster levels you possess.
- Psychic Resistance (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain a +1 bonus to save rolls against mind-influencing effects that stacks with all other bonuses. This bonus increases by +1 at 7th level and again every four levels thereafter, for a total of a +5 bonus at 19th level.
- Id Insinuation (Su): At 9th level, you can affect a single creature within 30 feet as per the confusion spell, except that you must maintain concentration to maintain the effect.
- Telekinetic Flight (Su): At 15th level, you gain the ability to telekinetically fly, as per the fly spell. You must maintain concentration to maintain the effect.
- Psychic Awakening (Su): At 20th level, you realize your full psychic potential. You gain full immunity to all mind-influencing spells and effects. You gain telepathy with a range of 120 feet. Once per day you may cast either true seeing or mass suggestion as a bonus spell. Once this choice has been made it cannot be changed.
Once again, thank you for all of the suggestions and criticisms.
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I've taken them all seriously, including Stormcrowe's. Trust me, if I believed for a moment that Paizo would include enough actual psionics rules to make the psion class viable, I wouldn't waste time with this. As it stands, it'll be easier to ask for an additional 3/4 of a column worth of text for the Sorcerer than to try to include true psionics.
As for the other suggesions thus far, here's a slightly revised version of my entry...
You've nailed it, I think. Well done! ;o)
Now we just have to hope that it makes the cut!
Peace,
tfad
The Negotiator feat has been removed from pathfinder; you may want to add Skill Focus (Diplomacy).
The Negotiator feat has been removed from pathfinder; you may want to add Skill Focus (Diplomacy).
You're absolutely right. I paid no attention to the Designer's Notes: Missing Feats sidebar on page 68 of AR3.
I'm not sure if I want Skill Focus (Diplomacy) or Skill Focus (Sense Motive) though. Decisions, decisions.
The Eschew Materials feat has been added as a bonus feat for all sorcerers at first level, FYI.
Otherwise, I love your bloodline! Fantastic work! Simple to implement, balanced and makes sense! Perfect!
Even if it is not added to Beta edition I'll certainly be adding it to my game.
That'll teach me for not re-reading the feat list....
D'oh!
tfad
And that'll teach me to actually read all of the rules involved. Thanks for all of the sharp eyes!
Replace Negotiator with Skill Focus (Sense Motive).
Replace Eschew Material Components with Combat Casting.
Keep this up! This isn't just mine, this is ours!
I would like to add some telekinesis to your bonus spell list. It sounds more like a telepath bloodline as it is.
VERY GOOD WORK!!!
|
And that'll teach me to actually read all of the rules involved. Thanks for all of the sharp eyes!
Replace Negotiator with Skill Focus (Sense Motive).
Replace Eschew Material Components with Combat Casting.
Keep this up! This isn't just mine, this is ours!
Instead of Combat Casting, give Skill Focus (Spellcraft). Instead of a conditional +4, you get a +3 in every situation. More bang for your feat purchasing buck.
Instead of Combat Casting, give Skill Focus (Spellcraft). Instead of a conditional +4, you get a +3 in every situation. More bang for your feat purchasing buck.
I'm a concept gamer, not a power gamer. You are correct on the efficiency of Skill Focus versus Combat Casting overall, but that smacks too much of munchkinism in my book. And I hate munchkinism almost as much as I hate senseless comedy movies.
To keep to the magic nature of the Sorcerer how about replacing the name "Pyschic" with Mind Witch?
There should be a limitation on the Fly ability, i.e. 1 minute/caster level/day used at a minimum of 1 minute increments
I can't explain why, but "mind witch" doesn't set well with me. Maybe it's because we're naming the bloodline, not the occupation. Maybe that's just me.
As for the limit on Telekinetic Flight... concentration in and of itself is a limitation. Look at the Draconic bloodline. They can summon their wings at will.
Just to say, though, I did read and consider these suggestions seriously before responding to them. I just felt these were a couple of issues I needed to stand my ground on.
I'm dreading the day when the "psionics don't belong in a fantasy game" crowd comes stomping into this thread to have their say... LOL
I'm dreading the day when the "psionics don't belong in a fantasy game" crowd comes stomping into this thread to have their say... LOL
I'll begin some hastily constructed defenses. At the first sign of danger, we'll smuggle you out in this giant wooden rabbit.... ;oD
tfad
Or perhaps a giant wooden badger....
Really top rate work here. I'm not sure if any of the sorcs in my games would jump for it, but I like it.
As a psi-lover, I applaud the desire to integrate psionics into the Pathfinder core book. However, this just doesn't feel right to me. Using names for the bloodline's abilities that are verbatim actual psionic powers means that when those powers do get used by an honest to goodness psion, they'll have to be reworked to comply with the sorcerer (since he came "first," and therefore sets precedent) and they aren't exactly an accurate description of the powers as it stands.
Also, I agree that the idea of a sorcerer getting a psion's schtick via a bloodline, but muddling it up via making it arcane, just doesn't really sit right wth me.
It's well written, and perhaps it'd be a good "enchanter" bloodline or something, but I don't like it as an attempt to bring Psionics into the main book. I'd much rather actually see the psion and psychic warrior put in.
Since there are no psionics (which I approve of), I think this is a wonderful idea. Bravo, and I hope they put something like this in there.
Using names for the bloodline's abilities that are verbatim actual psionic powers means that when those powers do get used by an honest to goodness psion, they'll have to be reworked to comply with the sorcerer (since he came "first," and therefore sets precedent) and they aren't exactly an accurate description of the powers as it stands.
I've actually been muddling around with this issue in my head for the last couple of days and I agree with your reasoning on the matter.
Let's change "Mind Thrust" to "Telekinetic Attack" and "Id Insinuation" to "Mind Scramble."
As for the issue of making a psion-wannabe who is arcane, that's just something I resigned myself to because ALL sorcerers cast arcane spells, regardless of bloodline.
I knew going into this that this wasn't going to please everyone. Nothing in game design can ever possibly do that. But, as I've mentioned before, I'm banking on the fact that it might be easier to beg for 3/4 of a column of space than it will be to beg for enough space to make the psion a viable class.
It is important, though, to somehow emphasize that this is an arcane spellcasting bloodline and not true psionics. I just want something like this in the core rules since it's been established that psionics are not making it into the core rules.
I've also been doing some rethinking on the bonus spell list, particularly for those people asking for some telekinetic lovin'. Even I have to admit now that there is some redundancy in the list on charm-like effects. So I've looked things over and would like to present this for consideration.
Bonus Spells: charm person (3rd), detect thoughts (5th), levitate (7th), charm monster (9th), telepathic bond (11th), dominate person (13th), greater teleport (15th), mass charm monster (17th), dominate monster (19th).
I also added greater teleport as a nod to psychoportation fans out there.
Bonus Spells: charm person (3rd), detect thoughts (5th), levitate (7th), charm monster (9th), telepathic bond (11th), dominate person (13th), greater teleport (15th), mass charm monster (17th), dominate monster (19th).
I also added greater teleport as a nod to psychoportation fans out there.
Nice list - I think it's slightly better for having some different spells spells on there, instead of just better versions of one already possessed. This could be taken further too.
Psychoportation is cool, not my favorite but you cannot argue with the style of Baleful Teleport. Nothing says "Don't f*ck with me!" quite like teleporting chunks off of your foes... Hehe.
Perhaps, if starting this bloodline again from the beginning, the design goal should very well be to include a little from each of the disciplines. To make sure they're all represented. Hmm.
Peace,
tfad
|
I kind of like the existing psionics system, why not just leave it in place? You really wouldn't need to make a lot of changes to it to make it work with PRPG... the Psionic classes would be slightly less powerful than their PRPG counterparts.
A few changes would be required like giving the psion d6 HP similar to the wizard and adding fighter feats to Psychic warrior. Beyond that let them run.
-- Dennis
I kind of like the existing psionics system, why not just leave it in place? You really wouldn't need to make a lot of changes to it to make it work with PRPG... the Psionic classes would be slightly less powerful than their PRPG counterparts.
A few changes would be required like giving the psion d6 HP similar to the wizard and adding fighter feats to Psychic warrior. Beyond that let them run.
-- Dennis
I agree totally with you on this, Dennis, except for one detail:
Paizo's not including psionics in the core rulebook nor do they plan on expounding on psionics anytime in the foreseeable future.
Therein lies the lynchpin that holds my tactic here in place. Certainly, someone who knows what they're doing and has an extensive d20 System library should be able to pick up the Pathfinder RPG core rulebook and the Expanded Psionics Handbook and run with it. What I'm doing here is trying to convince Paizo to provide a "quick fix" for those people who come into this anew and don't want to dole out another $30 for the full psionics rules (and do not have the know-how to look it up in the SRD). Besides, with the advent of D&D4e, the Expanded Psionics Handbook is technically out of print (though I'm sure used book stores will have an influx of copies here shortly).
I'm probably reacting to this a bit too defensively. But I'm trying to provide SOMETHING that will hopefully make it into the core rulebook and I feel vindicated in my efforts.
|
|
I understand... however this looks like a band aid. Anyone who really enjoyed the psionics system would prefer to run their existing characters with some slight modifications to skills and whatnot. Expanded Psionics Handbook is no longer available so the only Psionics resource available is the SRD. I feel most people interested in Psionics are either those who are already playing them or more advanced players who are wanting to branch out. In either case the updates to the existing classes would be trivial. Maybe I'll do them and publish them here :)
On the Other Hand. Personally I think one of the really cool things about the new Sorc is the customizations you can get out of it. Bloodlines are a great way a DM can personalize the game.
In reference to your original post. I think the 9th level power is weak. Disable one enemy but be forced to do nothing?
Also, the level 15 power... it just doesn't feel like it belongs. Almost all of your other powers and spells are mind affecting then this one is flight? How about something more mental.
A few changes would be required like giving the psion d6 HP similar to the wizard and adding fighter feats to Psychic warrior. Beyond that let them run.
As an aside, we have a Psychic Warrior in our ongoing campaign, who was involved in the playtest. We gave him the same class abilities as the new Pathfinder Fighter, obviously keeping the BAB, HD etc. and added all psionic feats to his list of bonus feats.
It worked out balanced and we had no problems with this. The Psion/Wilder would take a little more work to bring them up to the Wizard/Sorcerer though, and perhaps a little more again as they started off ever so slightly behind.
:oD
Peace,
tfad