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I'd say no. Not based on RAW, but for the cheese factor.
"He's a vampire AND a werewolf!" sounds a little too much like "He's not just a pirate, he's a ninja, too!"
Ditto for half-dragon, half-fiend lycanthropes or most anything else with with more than one template. I know that the way the game is played in most places these days that's not a problem, but that's not how I role. (pun intended)
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Ditto for half-dragon, half-fiend lycanthropes or most anything else with with more than one template. I know that the way the game is played in most places these days that's not a problem, but that's not how I role. (pun intended)
Just for the sake of argument, not counting the lycanthropic part, if you have a character present that's half-dragon and half-fiend, you only have one template applied. Either you took a dragon and made it fiendish, or you took a fiend and made it half-dragon. Anything more than that, and the creature is no longer half of either, they're simply that creature's ancestry which has left it with bloodlines in both, potentially allowing that creature to gain certain traits, but never manifest half of both.
Of course, just for fun, it might be interesting to play a creature who's heredity includes fiendish, draconic, fey, abyssal, aberrant, celestial, and giant bloodlines. Your character would have loads of issues, but you might get away with a lot because nobody would be able to tell when you're cheating, including you.
Though it may work with templates and has been done in Dungeon adventures in the past, undead and lycans should be separate. The Undead template cancels out the lycan, just as the undead templates cancel out the 'alive' template of everything else.
However, that does not mean that you can't have an undead lycan in flavor/story. Weres killed by spectres could be spectral weres in look and stats spectres in stats. The same thing works for most other types of undead.
I'd say no. Not based on RAW, but for the cheese factor. "He's a vampire AND a werewolf!" sounds a little too much like "He's not just a pirate, he's a ninja, too!"
Not just that, but it reeks of rabid Underworld/WoD/Stephanie Meyers fan-ism.
Then again, a wererat lich NPC just sounds cool, for some reason...|
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It only makes sense, however, if the creature in question aquires its lycanthropic nature before becoming a vampire; as lycanthropism is a disease and vampires are undead.Reviewing both in the SRD, Lycanthropy is acts like a disease but can be healed with remove curse? So is it a disease or is it a curse that would stay with the being after death?
I can't believe I never got around to replying to this one. Lycanthropy is a magical disease, this is part of the reason why it has to be removed with Remove Curse.
Let me quote "Curing Lycanthropy" from the Monster Manual, page 178.
An afflicted character who eats a sprig of belladonna(also called wolfsbane) within 1 hour of a lycanthrope's attack can attempt a DC 20 Fortitude save to shake off the affliction. If a healer administers the herb, use the character's save bonus or the healer's Heal modifier, whichever is higher. The character gets only one change, no matter how much belladonna is consumed. The belladonna must be reasonably fresh(picked within the last week).
However, fresh or not, belladonna is toxic. The character must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of Strength damage. One minute later, the character must succeed on a second DC 13 save or take an additional 2d6 points of Strength damage.
A Remove Disease or heal spell cash by a cleric of 12th level or higher also cures the affliction, provided the character receives the spell within three days of the lycanthrope's attack.
The only other way to remove the affliction is to cast Remove Curse or Break Enchantment on the character during one of the three days of the full moon. After receiving the spell, the character must succeed on a DC 20 Will save to break the curse(the caster knows if the spell works). If the saves fails, the process must be repeated. Characters undergoing this cure are often kept bound or confined in cages untill the cure takes effect.
Only afflicted lycanthropes can be cured of lycanthropy.
I know its late, but hey, I don't like leaving questions unanswered.
I'd say that lycanthropic vampires would be okay, but there shouldn't be too many (unless the plot/game requires elsewise, of course). Heck, Gary Gygax had one show up in a plot outline as far back as the original World of Greyhawk boxed set.
And forgive me, but I really must add:
Werewolves rule, vampires drool. :D
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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As long as there isn't anything in the RAW that indicates you cannot have more than one template on a creature, your vampire-werewolf should be allowed.
However, as a DM, I would never allow this in my campaigns - too powerful, especially at higher levels. I once had a PC who was cursed to become a weretiger after a gruelling battle with a mated pair of weretigers. He had quite an edge, and even took some feats to help control his lycanthropic urges. Eventually, though, he fell in combat to a vampire and was turned. When he was turned, I ruled that his lycanthropy was cured, but his undeath was in effect. I did allow him to replace the lycanthropy feats with undead feats, though...
However, as a DM, I would never allow this in my campaigns - too powerful, especially at higher levels.
Shouldn't the stacked level adjustments make the two-template wonder a little weak compared to a character with no templates?
Anyway, once I had this half-demon-ork vampire. It kicked the party's ass but had the party been at equal level it would have been toast.
Yeah, the build was illegal, but it was fun while it lasted. Sad part was that the heroes decided to discontinue their quest to rid the world of the abomination.....They subcontracted the quest out ;>
the contract should have failed hahahahahahaha
the contract should have failed hahahahahahaha
The replacements would / did fail but the campaign kind of died a few adventures after the subcontracting ;<
Can you say half-demon-ork vampire GOD? I could :>
I like the sound of that, I have a ghoul/werewolf..cleric of a demon lord working on just such a thing in a game now
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Let me quote "Curing Lycanthropy" from the Monster Manual, page 178.Only afflicted lycanthropes can be cured of lycanthropy.
Ok, I know this has become a DM decision for the most part.
If only afflicted lycans can be cured, what is the opinion of a "natural" lycan who is raised as undead? Do the shapeshifting abilities remain or are they lost in the transformation to undead? If they are lost, why would they be lost if the base creature was a "natural" shapeshifter? I guess their natural or normal state is the ability to shift.
Let me quote "Curing Lycanthropy" from the Monster Manual, page 178.Only afflicted lycanthropes can be cured of lycanthropy.Ok, I know this has become a DM decision for the most part.
If only afflicted lycans can be cured, what is the opinion of a "natural" lycan who is raised as undead? Do the shapeshifting abilities remain or are they lost in the transformation to undead? If they are lost, why would they be lost if the base creature was a "natural" shapeshifter? I guess their natural or normal state is the ability to shift.
You answered your own question...the ability to shift remains.
I like the sound of that, I have a ghoul/werewolf..cleric of a demon lord working on just such a thing in a game nowThe desire to become a god or divine rank being? I don't see the demon lord being particular fond of that idea.
True, but it makes for great conflict. The party can now make a deal with the demon lord to stop the ghoul/werewolf cleric, because a godling is a power to be reckoned with.
I don't remember what RPG it was in, but some rules defined two kinds of lycanthropy: disease-spread (by bite or family parentage) and curse-induced (perhaps it was in the 2e Ravenloft rules for weres?). Lycanthropy as a curse is also well-represented in RW folklore, where, actually, there is a slight overlap between undead and werecreatures (some European myths featuring weres depict them as immortal or ageless, or even endowed with powers over the dead).
Whereas disease, magical or not, is hard to understand in an undead being, lycanthropy curses (as any other curse) would be quite fitting for an undead creature and definitely work with little tinkering of the rules.
Eh you revived an interesting topic for discussion.
I say lycanthropes can become undead but they are essentially form locked. If they were turned into an undead while in hybrid form they can't exit it. The change is a biological/magical function that is disabled due to them no longer being alive.
The only thing worse than re-animating a dead lycanthrope is re-animating a thread that's been lying quietly in its grave for going on six years.