On Minor Magic and Major Magic Rogue Talents:
Ok, so I take minor magic and get exactly one 0-level spell from the Wiz/Sorc spells and I can cast it twice a day. I am assuming that currently my spell selection at the time of taking the talent cannot ever be changed. The Alpha doesn't exactly say "pick one and only one spell which cannot be changed".
Anyway, since "a rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once" that means I cannot take a second minor magic as my second Rogue Talent and get a second 0-level spell. Instead I have to take Major, learn a 1st level spell, and it's over. I'm stuck with those spells the rest of my career.
So I'm wondering if I've got something wrong...
Can I change spells? When and how?
Can I take additional minor or major magic slots with different spells?
If I can't do either what do people thing about allowing one or both?
I would say that if I'm willing to spend the talents over and over on magic, that should be fair (I've no opinion on whether that would be "balanced"), however perhaps each major magic has to have a minor (so a 10th level could know 3 0-level and 2 1st-level spells, but not 1 0-level and 4 1st-level).
Thoughts?
jage
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
jage wrote: Can I change spells? When and how? No.
jage wrote: Can I take additional minor or major magic slots with different spells? No. Minor and Major Magic can only be taken once, they do not have the option to be taken multiple times.
jage wrote: If I can't do either what do people thing about allowing one or both? If you want to be a speaking spellcaster then multiclass to sorcerer or play a bard.
jage wrote: I would say that if I'm willing to spend the talents over and over on magic, that should be fair (I've no opinion on whether that would be "balanced"), however perhaps each major magic has to have a minor (so a 10th level could know 3 0-level and 2 1st-level spells, but not 1 0-level and 4 1st-level). Why would you want 0 and 1 level spells. After about level 5 and 6 most of the non-utility spells aren't good anymore. If you must take these talents I suggest picking spells that don't have DCs or caster level increases, so basically utility spells only.
Resistance, Dancing Light, Light, Message, Alarm, Endure Elements, Shield, Identify, Disguise self, Animate Rope, Feather Fall, Jump.
I think it could be reasonably argued that access to these utility spells are exactly was the designer had in mind.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Well the whole 1/2 caster level thing kills all the level 1 damage spells. If I were to go with these talents, I'd grab Dancing Light and True Strike.
In any case, the free Finese and Focus are much more attractive to me... and I think I'd rather move full speed without when I'm hiding.
When I first saw these talents I immediately thought prestidigitation and ventriloquism.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Daigle wrote: When I first saw these talents I immediately thought prestidigitation and ventriloquism. I thought about the spells I mentioned, but when I saw the other talents I realized I'd never take these. The ability to take finese or focus as a talent to free up feats is too good. With Sneaky and Skill Focus, you can get Stealth up to +9 at level 1 (if you're human.) I just don't like them the magic talents but understand their uses.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
I converted a Rogue to the new rules to try it out and I took Detect Magic and Detect Secret Doors. I figure if I am a rogue I want spells that enhance my rogueness and not worry about trying to cause damage with the spells, etc.
I figure detect magic may help finding magical traps and might be a great way to figure out what is going on in some situations before I decide who to sneak attack.
I took Read Magic and Detect Undead. I'm the classic always wanted to dip into a sorc level but never wanted to give up a rogue level. Thus they are attractive enough TO ME to give up the other talents.
I'm guessing that Read Magic will allow me to use scrolls*, which along with UMD will expand my magic repetuar. Detect undead is campaign specific. I feel like both will be useful at any level.
*I haven't played a spell caster since AD&D and the descriptions I can find are less than clear. It's a big criticism of mine that 3.5 takes a library of books to understand- as a new player the simple stuff is simply missing from my knowledge: how much basic potions cost, how much adding +3 to a weapon costs, whether Read Magic will allow my rogue to prepare and use scrolls... and in this case the actual use and meaning of these two rogue talents.
Thanks for the clarification!
Unless I've misunderstood something, Ray of Frost can be very useful to a rogue. Rays are considered 'weapon-like spells' so I think you can make sneak attacks with them. Making your sneak attacks as touch attacks is advantageous at any level.
I don't know if it's true, but I once saw a chart that indicated that average AC increases at higher levels while average touch AC barely increases and occasionally decreases at high levels. If so, then using Ray of Frost to deliver sneak attacks actually gets better at higher levels.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
You make an interesting argument... I never thought of that.. but yes you can sneak attack with rays..
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