It actually is D20, I'll say that up front, but I'll toss it out there anyway: Midnight. All the goodness of 3E, but with 90% of the downsides thrown out. And the whole "evil won, save what you can" concept removes it completely from the feel of any other D20 game I've ever played.
Midnight rocks, although I have never played it before. The dark theme of the campaign definately strikes a chord in me.
I'm a big fan of grim and gritty rules, so naturally, I love Savage Worlds. Conan is another one of my favorites, but the d20 rules just don't cut it for me. So I'm about to startup a campaign using the SW rules, and Hyboria as the world. It should be an interesting ride.
Interesting. I see Midnight as more of a setting than a game.
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Back before 3E came out, I had a lot of fun playing Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade (basically M:tA set in ~1450 Europe).
Unfortunately our Storyteller wasn't a SCAdian, and all the players were, so we would have conversations like this:
S: You ride through a cornfield.
PCs: Wheatfield.
S: No, it's a cornfield.
PCs: George, there was no maize in Europe before the sixteenth century. It's a New World food...
S: ....
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Earthdawn is my all-time favorite game system. Red Brick Ltd. is the current producer of Earthdawn Classic. Living Room games produces the 2nd edition Earthdawn.
Deadlands is one of the best out there, the entire system is great.
Paranoia is a great fun game, especially if you're playing "Zap" rules.
7th Sea is a great cinematic feel game, the world is familiar to the ancient Earth, with a twist...
Back before 3E came out, I had a lot of fun playing Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade (basically M:tA set in ~1450 Europe).
Unfortunately our Storyteller wasn't a SCAdian, and all the players were, so we would have conversations like this:
S: You ride through a cornfield.
PCs: Wheatfield.
S: No, it's a cornfield.
PCs: George, there was no maize in Europe before the sixteenth century. It's a New World food...
S: ....
If it happens again, tell your Storyteller to sit there calmly and reply: "The word "corn" was a common term for any type of grain, I don't really care to put in the detail of just what type of grain it is, and I don't think it really matters to your characters, so shut up and let me get on with the flavor text..."
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If it happens again, tell your Storyteller to sit there calmly and reply: "The word "corn" was a common term for any type of grain, I don't really care to put in the detail of just what type of grain it is, and I don't think it really matters to your characters, so shut up and let me get on with the flavor text..."
Actually, he really wanted it to be corn, with tall stalks, ears, silk, etc...that was part of the conversation that I elided...we did know that "corn" used to be a generic word for grain.
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It actually is D20, I'll say that up front, but I'll toss it out there anyway: Midnight. All the goodness of 3E, but with 90% of the downsides thrown out. And the whole "evil won, save what you can" concept removes it completely from the feel of any other D20 game I've ever played.
After I heard about the impending release of 4th Edition D&D, I seriously considered this and Iron Heroes. But then came Pathfinder. Still, Midnight does have it's appeal.
Hiya.
I'd second the person who mentioned Talislanta. I've only played the 2nd and 3rd edition...and, IMHO, the 3rd edition is the last 'actual' version of the system; the 4th (has there been a new one?) was just d20 with Talislanta names if you ask me.
Next would be Powers & Perils ( Powers & Perils ). You can get the rules in PDF from here, for free, and legal. P&P is a fairly unique system in that it kinda mixes a skill-based system with level based. Two "level" stats CEL and MEL (Combat Experience Level and Magic Experience Level). Obviously only spellcasters will have a MEL. After that, it's all skills. Mana points, rules for spellcasting and innate abilities, a lot of really good stuff. You will either LOVE the system (look at the choices!), or *hate* it (that's to complicated!)...that's been my experience.
Last, I'd put up two; First, if you enjoy rules-tweaking, adding, and all that jazz...see if you can find a copy of The Arcanum (it is an old game, 1980 or so that was published by Bard Games). It recently had a 'revision', but I much prefer the original version (the individual books or the 'conglomerated' book...the one I use). If you are not into rule-tweaking, creation, etc., then maybe take a look at HARP. This system is relatively new still. It's made by ICE ( HARP ). Some people have likened it to a sort of "RoleMaster Light"...and that is a fairly good comparison. It has a fair number of rules that I come up with on my own a while back, so I find it's concepts and general rule-bases second nature. You can get them all in PDF (I did), and get them printed at Staples/Kinkos/Whatever...but you might need to get the ICE guys to fax a permission sheet to the store you want it printed at. I had to do this at Staples, but the ICE guy did it that day...unbelievably aweson service! :D
Or, you could always just write your own system, taking what you like from different games and having at 'er! :)
I'd like to bring some light to Anima: Beyond Fantasy, which was finally released in English. It is not d20 or a d20 derivative, and I've seen it compared to RoleMaster (although that's for the d100 mechanic). It is a bit crunchy as there are a handful of tables used to resolve some elements of combat, but on the whole it's actually rather simple and I've found fun.
I've actually been comparing it to 2e D&D Skills and Powers. They game is anime influenced(more like lightly seasoned) Fantasy roleplaying (not european medieval fantasy). The key selling point for me was that it is a very well done compromise between a class based characters and classless point buy. Each "Class" is really just a pricing guide for various abilities, you can pick almost any ability for character. Although classes do have lower costs on related abilities. A Fighter gets weapon skills and such at lower cost then a Wizard, however the fighter can also buy spellcasting abilities (just not as cheaply as the Wizard).
I say 2nd Edition Skills and Powers, but it's like 2eS&P with every modern convention in current RPGs, rolling high is good, addition favored over subtraction. In short what I see in Anima is basically everything that I would have liked to see in 4th Edition D&D, but didn't even get a hit of. I think that if Anima can breakout beyond its delay-created obscurity it will be a quality Fantasy RPG product you'll want to take a serious look at.
Another vote for Warhammer. Rules light, gritty, interesting setting:) But GURPS is also fun, and easier to customize to your campaign.
Another vote for Warhammer. Rules light, gritty, interesting setting:) But GURPS is also fun, and easier to customize to your campaign.
Warhammer is rules light? I should take another look then, because from the number of sourcebooks I have seen, it appears to have quite a few rules, especially when you get into sorcery and magic, etc.
Compared to Savage Worlds would you say it's heavier or lighter?
Another vote for Warhammer. Rules light, gritty, interesting setting:) But GURPS is also fun, and easier to customize to your campaign.Warhammer is rules light? I should take another look then, because from the number of sourcebooks I have seen, it appears to have quite a few rules, especially when you get into sorcery and magic, etc.
Compared to Savage Worlds would you say it's heavier or lighter?
Actually, warhammer is fairly rules lite. The vast majority of the stuff thats been released for it is additional setting material. Where a book is crunch heavy it is usually because it is expanding a specific subsystem. The magic system is comparatively more complex than the stabbing some one or using a skill system, but its still pretty simple.
Cool! I might need to run my group through it once or twice after we try out Savage Worlds tonight with Burnt Offerings!
While i am thinking about it, i really have to mention artesia. It is my very faverate fantasy RPG ever.
Another vote for Warhammer. Rules light, gritty, interesting setting:) But GURPS is also fun, and easier to customize to your campaign.Warhammer is rules light? I should take another look then, because from the number of sourcebooks I have seen, it appears to have quite a few rules, especially when you get into sorcery and magic, etc.
Compared to Savage Worlds would you say it's heavier or lighter?
Zombieneighbours and Jeremy Epp said it already :)
second edition streamlined magic considerably, making it a dice pool vs target number system.I can't compare it to Savage Worlds as I haven't played it.
Have fun!
It's funny. When I looked at True20 the impression I came away with was - why wouldn't I just play 3.5?
Did I miss something? What do folks like about True20 that makes if their preferred system?
Spells are more effect-based rather than Magic Missile - Melf's Acid Arrow - Lightning Bolt - etc etc. all being the same general spell with different names. And less of the accountant approach to magic that D&D has always had (i.e. you have X spells per day that you can always cast without fail virtually in any situation). If you had to design a magic system from the ground up, True20's system seems more logical than D&D's.
Some people don't like that True20 took away their Hit Points. I think it's interesting, and it makes the mundane assassin's dagger FAR more dangerous than its D&D counterpart.
True20 is also "old school" in that there's no need for maps & miniatures, 5' steps, AoO beancounting, and the tactical wargaming that some would-be D&D players want to stay away from.
In another nod to the old school, iterative attacks also go away with True20... you get one attack, plus an off-hand if you want. Doesn't make Warrior-types less effective, necessarily. Combined with the loss of the map-based combat, it does make combat rounds go quicker.
Is True20 for everyone? No. If you really like the 3.5-style of D&D, then why change for the sake of change?
Another vote for Warhammer. Rules light, gritty, interesting setting:) But GURPS is also fun, and easier to customize to your campaign.Warhammer is rules light? I should take another look then, because from the number of sourcebooks I have seen, it appears to have quite a few rules, especially when you get into sorcery and magic, etc.
Compared to Savage Worlds would you say it's heavier or lighter?
Zombieneighbours and Jeremy Epp said it already :)
second edition streamlined magic considerably, making it a dice pool vs target number system.
I can't compare it to Savage Worlds as I haven't played it.
Have fun!
The magic system has a really nice backlash subsystem built in too, really very cool. Better even than paradox from mage, in many ways.
One of the nice things about the magic book is that it expands the backlash system, without making it any more complicated.
MERP - I forgot MERP - how could I ... :)
We will re-start playing it these days ... :) Thanks to the in my eyes bad idea 4e, all the good old games are played again :)
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Warhammer is rules light? I should take another look then, because from the number of sourcebooks I have seen, it appears to have quite a few rules, especially when you get into sorcery and magic, etc.Compared to Savage Worlds would you say it's heavier or lighter?
Another comment: ;-)
Yes, there are a lot of supplements. But almost all of them are setting supplements (talking about Warhammer RPG 2nd edition).Even those supplements based on magic, only contain information on new spell groups which *replace* the standard spells. So even adding new spells doesn't increase complexity. Supplements on new major npc groups only add a relatively low number of new career paths, feats, and equipment.
For someone like me, used to the number of choices in 3e supplements, the careful extension of rules was something to get used to first.
I can also confirm, that even people not liking D&D seem to feel more intrigued by the "more medieval" and "more roleplaying focused" approach of WH RPG.
Maybe it's because Green Ronin developped the rules of WH RPG 2nd edition. ;-)
Give it a try. The Basic rule book already contains everything to start with. If you still can get your hands on the "enemy within" campaign: get it! It's 1st edition, but adaptions are quite easy and there are some free conversion annotations on the net.
Cheers,
Günther
Really leaning towards grabbing up some Savage Worlds for my next campaign, but I have to ask . . .has anyone used Mutants and Masterminds for their fantasy gaming?
The more I look at it the more I think it might be great for a steampunk/fantasy setting.
Really leaning towards grabbing up some Savage Worlds for my next campaign, but I have to ask . . .has anyone used Mutants and Masterminds for their fantasy gaming?
Nope, but they do have a fantasy book in production for M&M called Warriors & Warlocks. I'm not aware of a release date though.
Course, being able to grab up Savage Worlds for $10 is pretty good, and there is an existing "dark steampunk fantasy" setting from a licensee called RunePunk. Might be worth looking into.
Simplest and easiest suggestion (which has yet to be mentioned) is to just keep playing 3.5. That's what I'm doing. After all you don't have to buy new books, learn new rules or do anythind different. of course no new books are coming out, but since the books were always rule books instead of setting books and you had to worry about power creep, I don't see that as a downside. This method will actually save you money.
Other than that Rolemaster is insteresting. I'd consider 1d100 to be "one die roll". Some of the rules are clunky, power gaming can go overboard easily and there are a LOT of charts. Also you have a choice between altering the exp rules, or watching people get REALLY upset over kill stealing. Yet the spells are flavorful, the classes are neat the items are cool and the crit effects can just plain rock.
Palladium Fantasy is also good. Attack rolls are done with a d20, but instead of AC (usually) there are defense rolls like parry and dodge. The movement rules can get a bit clunky, and the GM has to be ready to beat up any player who says "can I bring in my Rifts character?" Still it can be a fun game and Palladium is good at interesting settings.
Gurps does not sound like what you are looking for to me. The rules are sound, but very complicated. Bell-curves everywhere. A great system but from what little you have posted it doesn't sound like you're cup of tea. Still it does probably have the most sound rule system around, and the most realistic.
BESM is even less your cup of tea. The rules are very simple, which allows for flexibility, but a lot has to be worked out by the players. It also uses a bell curve. Good system for a specific kind of group, horrible for everyone else. I can think of many players that if I tried to run it for them I would strangle them by the 4th session.
So how about letting up know what you've tried or taken a look at thanks to this thread? You started it, but you've yet to respond to any of the posts. I'd like to know if you've settled on or rejected anything yet.
I was always fond of the Palladium Fantasy RPG. Same basic system as other Palladium products (Ninjas & Superspies, Heroes Unlimited, etc) and a very well-designed campaign world.
I'd re-iterate Ars Magica for medieval feel roleplay. Very good system and one of the best Magic Systems I have ever seen. You can create pretty much any spell you want it's just your level of ability defines how effective the spell is.
7th Sea is good musketeer style games, magic system is terrible and worth dropping but excellent other than that. NOTE not the D20 version.
Cool. Thanks for the feedback on True20. Maybe I'll give it another peek.
There's been mixed reactions, most guys in my gaming groups liked it but a few weren't impressed. I ran a campaign based in FOrgotten Realms and we all enjoyed this very much. You can get many character of the same class (warrior, adept or expert) and get totally different results if you follow the style of the character.
The add on's espcially true20 companion is excellent, you can make more martial priest types with it by improving the combat progression of an adept, minimising the spell options to 12.Overall I thoroughly recommend giving it a go.
...Other than that Rolemaster is insteresting. I'd consider 1d100 to be "one die roll". Some of the rules are clunky, power gaming can go overboard easily and there are a LOT of charts. Also you have a choice between altering the exp rules, or watching people get REALLY upset over kill stealing. Yet the spells are flavorful, the classes are neat the items are cool and the crit effects can just plain rock....
second that - I'm new to Rolemaster (there's a new excellent edition here in germany) but the more I read and play, the better it gets - great game, it's a shame that I haven't played it the last 25 years :)
I believe the new revised edition includes the True20 Companion. That is a good move in my opinion as I believe the Companion to be indispensible.
Of course, this comes from someone who has not actually played a single game of True20.
OK, now that Fourth Edition has come about, I'm doing some shopping to see if there's a better system out there. I like sound rules, weapons' damage to be a single die (no bell-curves, please) and am looking for a fantasy milieu. What say you..?
Some of the rules systems I really like:
Legend of the Five Rings (aka Roll-n-Keep)Talislanta
World of Darkness
True20
Savage Worlds
West End Games' D6
Shadowrun
Earthdawn
Serenity/Battlestar Galactica
What do I play now:
D&D 4E
I really like the current set of D&D. The rules are streamlined and simplified. Everyone can do something useful in every combat. Overall, my group and I are very happy with it.