Summon Djinn is in the SRD. It's in the Monster Manual, but it's in the SRD.
I didn't say the ability to summon a djinn didn't exist, I said it's not a spell.
In any case, you get those spells in addition to Radiant Assault. You don't lose anything out of your top level spells.
You're deliberately not getting it. I'm saying that:
(a) It's not backward-compatible in the least, so proposing it on this board is pointless.(b) I can choose three better 7th-level sorcerer spells than Control Weather, Summon Djinn and Sunburst by throwing a dart into a pile of splatbooks (seriously, how many times a day do you want to control the weather?). The top 2-3 spells from every available source are going to be better than 1 spell from anywhere, and three that Frank pulled out of the SRD at random (I certainly know that when I see Control Weather, Summon Djinn and Sunburst, the word "dragon" doesn't exactly spring to mind, notwithstanding the fact that dragons can use those abilities).
Seriously, whether this is a great change or not this isn't going to happen. So why discuss it here instead of the Gleemax boards (say)? I really don't see the purpose.
Frank,
I think you have something big here, so don't let it go. I really like the concept, though I believe somehow it gets off somewhere, I still cannot pinpoint where... I'll be back once I get the chance to read it more thoroughly.
Great work!
Regards,
ZOOROOS
Hogarth: you get two spells of your highest level of your choice. You get one 4th level spell at level 8, and one 4th level spell at level 9. Also you get the three preselected.
And no, the Draconic Heritage is not selected at random from the SRD. Those are the spells that Tiamat can actually cast. They are not the spells that make you glow funny colors and sprout scales - dragons don't get any of those spells. Dragons create water, control plants, control the weather, summon djinn, and so on. Those are the powers that Dragons in D&D really get.
From a conceptual standpoint, I find it blatantly obvious that if you get your magic from Dragons, that you should be getting the spells that Dragons cast, and not other spells that Dragons do not cast. Apparently you feel differently. You are welcome to make an extra heritage called Wyrm Power or something that gives you magic that look like they come from dragons as opposed to the spells that actually do come from dragons under the 3rd edition rules.
But I for one find continuity of abilities between Dragons and people who get their power from Dragons to be a lot more flavorful than having a total disconnect where Dragons get one set of powers and their flunkies get an entirely different set of powers that does something else. Even, neigh especially if the Dragons cast spells that take the form of clouds and the non-dragons with nominally dragon derived power are shooting giant dragon heads at people.
-Frank
Giving selections is granting Variety. It costs Simplicity.
Giving direct abilities is Simple. It costs Variety.Feat and Spell Selections are easy to write, but not easy to play with. Every time you tell people that they get a bonus feat, they have to look through literally thousands of feats to determine what all that ability could do. That's not simple. Every time you give someone a spell selection, you are having them look through thousands of spells just to determine your options. That's not simple either.
Giving fixed bonus feats ad fixed spells is a massive reduction in character production complexity.
-Frank
I suppose it would be thousands only if they are obssessive book buyers (which you and I probably are).
Ultimately, because of the stated goal of backwards compatibility I suspect that bonus feats/heritage feats and/or SLAs are going to be the end product.
Good morning by the way. I assume you did get some sleep last night?
Here in the Czech Republic it's like 18:30 right now.
-Frank
Nice alternative sorcerer fix Frank.
I'd liked to see Paizo produce something a little better than the Variant Spellcaster with the open bonus feats at 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20 mechanically making a cost to exit the base class to PRC. Sure a player could probably still do better mechanically by PRCing but for plenty of games it would be enough to stay with the base class instead of PRCing.
I'd like to see more known spells like your fix particularly for the low level games below L8.
IMO a sorcerer should know at least 3 spells when they level similar to a Favored Soul.
One of those Two bonus spells would be a fixed Blood line spell designated by Paizo similar to the SRD bonus domain Wizard spells or the old Dragon magazine bloodline feats for some extra useful known spells some good, some average and some weak but which provide a few more options in game.
The other would be the choice of a bonus known spell of the associated school of magic designated by Paizo.
For instance a planar blood line could be associated with the school of Conjuration and possibly the school of Abjuration.
For backwards compatibility all Paizo BL sorcerers "could" have the "option" to take the "PF Ritual of Power" with PF mechanical costs to acquire standard spellcasting progression for PCs who do not wish to play Kobold Sorcerers just to acquire standard spellcasting in game.
I think the PF bloodline sorcerer class should have the "option" to gain Light Armor Proficiency with No ASF as one of the feat choices with their inborn power.
I would like to see something like +1 freebie meta to "several" sorcerer known spells which do not change the casting level of the spell similar to the Oriental Adventures Wu Jen lets say levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20 but they stack so at L4 the PC could have 2 spells with a freebie +1 meta without needing to take a meta feat or having it affect spellcasting or a single +2 meta to a single spell perhaps (Empower to Scorching Ray for the blasters) or one Quickened spell at L12+ which is still cast in the standard spell slot).
Maybe a Reserve blasting feat comparable to the Fiery Burst Reserve feat mechanic or a toned down Warlock blast or Dragon Shaman which is mostly useful at low levels.
Maybe an improved spontaneous casting variant which is mostly useful at lower levels of play with a limited amount of uses say half sorcerer class level divided by 2 for up to 2 uses a day at L4, 3 uses a day at L6, ...... and 10 uses a day at L20:
Half and round down the spells a sorcerer is normally capable of casting and the sorcerer can spontaneously cast a much lower level spell in that spell slot.
A L18 sorcerer who could normally cast L9 spells could cast a L4 spell in a L8 or L9 spot or a L3 spell in a L6 or L7 spell slot through sheer force of will.
A L4 sorcerer could cast a L1 spell in place of a L2 spell slot
A L8 could cast a L2 spell spontaneously not on his known spells as a L4 spell and a L1 spell as a L2, L3 or L4 spell.
If that is to powerful let sorcerers prepare arcane spells in sorcerer spells slots using the same or a similar mechanic with a +2 or better cost. (For example a Sorcerer -6+ would be able to cast Identify in a L3 or greater spell slot which uses up that spell slot for the prepared spell even if not cast that day similar to the wizard mechanic).
Spell component pouches are cheap at 5 gp unless you are playing in a game that really monitors that mechanic which quite a few seem to for the repeated Eschew Materials feaat at first level. I like choices in game so let the sorcerer take Eschew Materials feat or Anthamae feat.
Anthamae feat: Choose a weapon the PC is proficient with in lieu of casting spells with standard components (up to 5 gp or less) you may substitute your Anthamae which provides a +1 bonus to the Spell DC and Casting Level of all spell cast using your Anthamae conversely spells cast without it receive -1 modifier to the Spell DC and Casting Level for all spells cast without it (when the PC chooses not to use it, is separated from it (theft, imprisonment.......).
Skill points I would like to see 4 base skill points since the class is Charisma based with a single skill of the Player's choice subject to DM approval just like the Leadership feat to prevent it from unbalancing a game.
I'd like to see a Paizo side note denoting the changes to the "Battle Sorcerer Variant" if the all the claw attacks will be remaining.
If none of that is viable flavorwise the PF Universalist Wizard seems to come closest to the base Sorcerer and I wouldn't mind seeing the Universalist Sorcerer pick up the Universalist Wuzard specials.
Wow... this is amazing, incredibly good work.
M
Wow... this is amazing, really solid stuff.
M
A couple of things - I really like the 'theme' concept, but it almost sounds like the Sorceror is similar to the 4e Warlock, with his various 'pacts' adding flavor to his casting. However, despite the similarity, I like the direction you have taken.
I see the biggest gripe above to be the lack of 'versatility' (choices), which truth be told, I'm really not seeing. I understand where the OP is coming from - a player is going to pick a heritage with the spells he wants, so right there he made the biggest choice.
Seriously, how many people pick a god because he believes in the god's tenets, and how many pick the god based on his domains? You may not be choosing your spells, but you ARE choosing your list.
Anyhow, since a lot of people are still having a problem with that, perhaps the spells granted by heritage can be optional? Have it so you can take either a Heritage spell or another of the player's choosing. The problem with THAT fix is that now you've thrown the concept of 'theme' almost completely out the window, because a player can choose to ignore it.
My solution - offer them "a deal they can't refuse". Have the Heritage spells be ones that are usually only available at the next level up - now a player can choose if he wants to stay with his heritage for raw power, or broaden his horizons and branch out (with more, albeit weaker, choices). Thus, you give the player an incentive to stick with your designed flavor, without limiting him.
Bear in mind, I'm extremely new to Pathfinder, and my unfamiliarity with the system could mean I'm way off base here.