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I personally feel that DR worked a lot better in 3.0 than 3.5, because it was much easier to handle as a DM, and characters didn't need the infamous "Golfbag of Weapons" to handle all sorts of material/alignment/magic resistances (most often combination a combination of two or all of them) .
Still, I liked that some creatures had DR against certain weapon types, such as skeletons having Bludgeoning/5.
Jason, would it be possible to pick the "best" of the both worlds? I mean, I don't mind that you'd need (at least) a silver weapon against lycanthropes or a bludgeoning weapon against skeletons, but I wouldn't want to see monsters having 'DR Magic Good and Adamantine'.
Any thoughts?
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I don't think the DR is too bad, considering the amounts are lower than they were in 3.0. Melee warriors have potential to dish out enough damage to still hurt, even if they don't have the "proper" weapon.
My only concern with DR is how much it makes archers even less effective. It is much easier with Power Attack and two-handed weapons to increase damage output from one strike; would it be possible to perhaps allow ranged weapon bonuses stack with their ammunition bonuses? I understand why that was changed, but a +2 bow and +2 arrow has a lot better chance to overcome DR in such a scenario.
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I don't think the DR is too bad, considering the amounts are lower than they were in 3.0. Melee warriors have potential to dish out enough damage to still hurt, even if they don't have the "proper" weapon.
My only concern with DR is how much it makes archers even less effective. It is much easier with Power Attack and two-handed weapons to increase damage output from one strike; would it be possible to perhaps allow ranged weapon bonuses stack with their ammunition bonuses? I understand why that was changed, but a +2 bow and +2 arrow has a lot better chance to overcome DR in such a scenario.
I have personal negative experiences (also as a player) from not always remembering which monster has DR against which material/type/alignment (hey, that's what the books are for ;)). One of the "major" blunders happened when we had a TPK with 20th level PCs -- I was playing a Paladin who wielded a Great Sword +5 (it was pretty late and I was tired) and instead of casting 'Align Weapon' I happened to cast 'Holy Sword'. Despite my Smite Evil and +2D6 bonus to damage that "supervampire" had DR and Regeneration high enough to take me down. Yeah, I power attacked often, and missed more than half the time. The others didn't stand a chance, since they were in a pretty bad shape from fighting other enemies (I had faced that vampire mano-a-mano). The DM just commented: "I thought you guys knew that you need a Good weapon to bypass a vampire's DR?". So, at the moment the game expects you either to prepare spells that enable you to "modify" your weapon against each opponent, *or* that you carry a huge collection of magical weapons. And I don't like it.
I would put in my 2 cents here, and say how I like a mish-mash of 3.0 and 3.5 DR systems.
Specifically, every "+" defeats 5 points of DR/Magic. So a creature with DR 15/Magic takes a +3 to completely bypass, but a +1 effectively reduces the DR to 10. I find this system is fairly simple, fairly intuitive, and fits versimilitude needs more often than not.
Regarding unique DR needs, as long as players have some "built in" ability to overcome it, I'm fine with them. DR/Good usually comes in the shape of devils, demons, and some undead, so the paladin and cleric should have a ability to bypass that DR, such as the Paladin Celestial Weapon. It doesn't need to be something they can do all the time, just something that means they don't have to rely on a scroll, oil, or custom weapon. Fighters have weapon specialization, and barbarians have rage, which math-wise, means they are more likely to get damage through DR. Rangers have favored enemy (presumably). Wizards and Sorcerors don't usually worry about DR. Rogues now get sneak attack on more things, so they're fine. Druids have access to align fang now. I will be interested to see what bards get, as bardic music falls into the same catagory as rage, but then no one expects bards to front-line monsters. I am very interested to see if the "magic, lawful, admantine" ki strike of the monk possibly becomes the "default" choice of several monk paths, similar to the Arcane Bloodline for Sorcerors.
I've been thinking for a while... wouldn't it be good for DR to work in stages?
For example, a 3e monster might have had DR 25/+5.
If you made that 25/+1, 20/+2 etc (I know this might need some bookwork and doesn't always work) but allowing 'lesser' magic items to have lesser (but not entirely negated) effects would be useful.
So swinging away with a +4 weapon wasn't completely wasted, you would still ignore a certain proportion of the DR, but not all of it? Maybe I'm just tired here...
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The DM just commented: "I thought you guys knew that you need a Good weapon to bypass a vampire's DR?". So, at the moment the game expects you either to prepare spells that enable you to "modify" your weapon against each opponent, *or* that you carry a huge collection of magical weapons. And I don't like it.
That does sound like a bad experience. I try to provide helpful reminders (such as knowledge checks at the beginning of the encounters for the players to ascertain what they may already know about the creature they're fighting) to lessen the chances of situations like that from happening.
[and, not to cause bad feelings, but "Holy Sword" is like "Align Weapon -Good" on steroids, your sword would've still bypassed DR/good]
I use something along the lines of what Monte Cook once recommended:
+2 weapons also defeat DR /silver
+3 weapons also defeat DR /silver and DR /cold iron
+4 weapons beat DR /any special material except adamantine
+5 weapons beat any special material DR (including adamantine).
This makes people think twice about stopping at +1 and then just tacking on special powers; some people go for all the "plusses" they can get instead.
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I use something along the lines of what Monte Cook once recommended:
+2 weapons also defeat DR /silver
+3 weapons also defeat DR /silver and DR /cold iron
+4 weapons beat DR /any special material except adamantine
+5 weapons beat any special material DR (including adamantine).This makes people think twice about stopping at +1 and then just tacking on special powers; some people go for all the "plusses" they can get instead.
*YOINK!*
I also like Monte Cook's suggestion for high plusses bypassing DR. It avoids the "golfbag" problem and makes a high-plus weapon pretty cool.
Kirth's post doesn't match what I downloaded from Monte's website, however.
Here's the original Monte Cook version:
+2: /silver
+2: /bludgeoning, /piercing or /slashing
+3: /adamantine or /cold iron
+4: /[alignment-based]
If you have both the pluses and the special material to beat a creature's DR, then you get an extra +2 to damage. So you can bypass a werewolf's DR with a silver sword [b]OR[/b a +2 sword. If you hit a werewolf with a +2 Silver sword, you would get an extra +2 to damage.
I'm going to use this in my campaign when it comes up. But the PCs only just hit 3rd level after the last session, so no one is rocking the +2 or higher weapon yet.
Kirth's post doesn't match what I downloaded from Monte's website, however.
Correct. I modified it somewhat because I'm a 1e fossil. In the 1st ed. DMG, all +3 weapons were by default made of meteorite iron, all +4 weapons of mithral, and all +5 weapons of adamantine ("adamantite"). Stoneskin went from DR 10/+5 to DR 10/adamantine (3.0 to 3.5), so there's a double precedent there. Also, I don't really like the "plusses" defeating DR /slashing, or whatever; just the various & sundry materials. (Ever look at "Denizens of Darkness?" There's critters in there with like DR 15/obsidian.)
I have personal negative experiences ...instead of casting 'Align Weapon' I happened to cast 'Holy Sword'. Despite my Smite Evil and +2D6 bonus to damage that "supervampire" had DR and Regeneration high enough to take me down. ..The DM just commented: "I thought you guys knew that you need a Good weapon to bypass a vampire's DR?".
Dude, you were totally Robbed!
Bamboozled!
Flim-flammed!
Gaffled!
Jobbed!
Oh, the injustice!
To quote the SRD: "This power makes the weapon good aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction."
I can't believe no one at the table that day noticed, especially if it was a TPK. How long ago was this? Do you have time for a "Do Over"? You should at least get the DM to say "sorry".
I really think they did fix it from 3.0 to 3.5 please dont change it
I wouldn't change DR so much as create a very clear definition of it. Right now, there are arguements around the my table as to what level you have to be to "take" a monster of a certain DR, and complaints that sprout up when such a creature appears and waxes the party, whole or in part. There should be something in place to handle this "problem" (quotes used because the people who usually use this arguement are oblivious to the tactics a canny DM might use).
I modified it somewhat because I'm a 1e fossil. In the 1st ed. DMG, all +3 weapons were by default made of meteorite iron, all +4 weapons of mithral, and all +5 weapons of adamantine ("adamantite"). Stoneskin went from DR 10/+5 to DR 10/adamantine (3.0 to 3.5), so there's a double precedent there. Also, I don't really like the "plusses" defeating DR /slashing, or whatever; just the various & sundry materials. (Ever look at "Denizens of Darkness?" There's critters in there with like DR 15/obsidian.)
Huh, I don't remember the magic bonus automaticcally determining the material of a magic weapon. I thought the material was only sometimes mentioned in certain unique weapons. But I haven't cracked a 1st edition book in almost 20 years.
I suppose Adamantine is pretty pricey when compared to the other materials, so putting it on par with cold iron is strange. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to get DR/Adamantine.
I don't mind the DR/slashing thing, really. Sure, you could swing at a skeleton and pass through the spaces between the bones. But really, the spaces aren't that big compared to your weapon. The extra plusses guide your strike...If you make short work of a skeleton with a +2 sword, I'm not gonna cry. And if you hit a zombie with a +2 mace, you're gonna splat him pretty good.
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I would put in my 2 cents here, and say how I like a mish-mash of 3.0 and 3.5 DR systems.
Specifically, every "+" defeats 5 points of DR/Magic. So a creature with DR 15/Magic takes a +3 to completely bypass, but a +1 effectively reduces the DR to 10. I find this system is fairly simple, fairly intuitive, and fits versimilitude needs more often than not.
Now, this is truly an elegant solution! I like it -- a lot! What about materials and alignment? Would it be possible to think that they, too, work the same way? So, a creature with DR 15 Magic and Adamantine would require a +4 sword to completely bypass DR? And how about a monster with DR 15 Adamantine and Good? Your magical sword would be useless in the current rules unless Good and made of Adamantine. Hmmm...