I find the breaks in the spell more distracting than helpful. <edit> what would really be nice is if the spells could be printed in card-like psuedo-blocks, suitable for photocopying and cutting apart to make spell cards.
Perhaps just use color fonts: Red for school and level, Green for casting and black for the effect lines.
And yeah, the kite-wing ears on the elf are bothersome. I'd also much rather see the basic races dressed in "common" clothing (non-adventuring) for the Pathfinder world, rather than their underwear. It will give us both an idea of what the racial dress habits are like as well as a vision of the race overall.
I like the double-line layout, it looks a lot better and is easier for at-a-glance reading as was mentioned. As for the elf ears, I'm kind of neutral on that, however, I must say I prefer the artwork style of pathfinder to wizard's stuff. This seems more natural and realistic. Awesome job artists!
The double lines you use for spell descriptions however make the document unreadable IMO
I agree. With the small font, I find the double lines stand out more than the text they're supposed to off-set.
I suggest keeping only the top line for the separations and a 1-pt increase in the font size for those subsection headings.
That's what I did for the Open Design layout projects (esp. Six Arabian Nights) and it worked out quite well.
Few little nitpick on the art/layout. Page 63 needs one of those 1/2 page art pieces, its just blank on the right side and I want more awesome art :P Page 115 is missing the bottom border and page number, and page 49 and 54 have the same art, one needs to change...
Wow.. I just realized something.. all you guys that don't like.. none of you are Paizo customers. That totally explains why none of you like the lines, Paizo does them in ALL of their stat blocks in all of their GameMastery and Pathfinder books.
Good catch.
I'll admit, when I first saw them I didn't know what to make of them as well. That said, now that I'm accustomed to seeing them, I find them to be very useful and beneficial. It's just one of those situations where one has to get used to a change before any significance can be appreciated.
Wow.. I just realized something.. all you guys that don't like.. none of you are Paizo customers. That totally explains why none of you like the lines, Paizo does them in ALL of their stat blocks in all of their GameMastery and Pathfinder books.
Hey, I picked up Hollow's Last Hope - I've got street cred! [grin]
And I hated the double lines there, too. That's why I "fixed" the layout when Open Design switched to the Paizo statblock format. That statblock only needs an upper line and a font change for the subsection title. YMMV.
(Of course, not all customers are subscribers. But the discussion over the Pathfinder RPG has me placing more and more products on pre-order, so it counts for something.)
I'd have to disagree with the post the started all this... I for one absolutely LOVE the art style and direction they have gone with in the game (even the anime elf ears :P)
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I'd have to disagree with the post the started all this... I for one absolutely LOVE the art style and direction they have gone with in the game (even the anime elf ears :P)
Ditto on every point there.
There's only one Pathfinder artist whose work I wasn't completely happy with so far, and that was mainly more because of how it conflicted with the other art styles typically shown in its place than any fault of the artist himself.(Skinsaw Murders, specifically) I certainly wouldn't call for that artist to stop being used, though. It just didn't work for me there.
But as always with art, YMMV.
I'm against anime style elf ears.
No playtesting here to back me up, I'm just sick of seeing it as the new style of elf. I'm an old school D&D player first and watcher of anime second.
That's not to say those ears don't have a place in my games... they just belong to a different race: half-fey, the feytouched, and those who have strong faerie bloodlines.
Wow.. I just realized something.. all you guys that don't like.. none of you are Paizo customers. That totally explains why none of you like the lines, Paizo does them in ALL of their stat blocks in all of their GameMastery and Pathfinder books.
I was a Dungeon subscriber from issue #6 and Pathfinder adventure subscriber up until the last Pathfinder (#7) (not renewing due to money problems). I've NEVER liked the new stat blocks, but my cries against them have long been drowned out.
NOT WITH THE EARS AGAIN !?
This horse (or donkey if you will) has been beaten to a pulp, raised, beaten again, resurected, beaten again and now you're about to animate its bloody pulp of a remain to beat it again.
Let it go people. It's moving in a different direction now. Look at the rogue Iconic. That's where this is going from now on (from what I understantd of James Jaccobs' comments).
Just let it go... Please... ;)
NOT WITH THE EARS AGAIN !?
This horse (or donkey if you will) has been beaten to a pulp, raised, beaten again, resurected, beaten again and now you're about to animate its bloody pulp of a remain to beat it again.
Let it go people. It's moving in a different direction now. Look at the rogue Iconic. That's where this is going from now on (from what I understantd of James Jaccobs' comments).
Just let it go... Please... ;)
NEVER!! Seriously though, many people (myself included) do not like those ears, they are just ridiculous. The Rogue isn't too bad, but the "races" picture is terrible. It's too comedic for a serious game.
NEVER!! Seriously though, many people (myself included) do not like those ears, they are just ridiculous. The Rogue isn't too bad, but the "races" picture is terrible. It's too comedic for a serious game.
On the flip side of the same coin, probably just as many people, myself included, like those ears. In my opinion the races picture is very well done.
It comes to a matter of preference; customers are basically split on the issue, so it has allowed the setting's authors to run with the preference they prefer.
Ultimately, is it a game-breaker for those that don't like it; will someone that would normally buy the game not do so simply because of the way elves are depicted in the setting?
And yes, you might be surprised as to some people's fanaticism over it. Not just the elves, but a fanatical crusade to wipe out the influence of WoW-ization on the tabletop.
Be this as it may, I feel this is as invalid a reason to change something as is change for the sake of change alone.
It does bring to mind a good point, though. There's a very good and very specific reason for WoW's elves to have the ears they do; elves in the setting are a mutation from the setting's trolls, a race that also sports oversized ears. If there's a reason for Golarion's elves to have similar ears, run with it. Otherwise, going a more traditional route may be warranted.
And as far as his chisel-ness and towering over the human, I've read all the outcries in WoW as to why they made their male elves all chiseled and beefy, and you know what I say to those who would cry about it? If you're not secure enough in your own masculinity to play an elf knowing that they're slender, graceful, and to a point, androgynous, then there are legitimately beefy races you can play. Even Orlando Bloom was a pretty boy as Legolas; I seriously doubt any less ladies swooned over him in that role. I know my wife certainly did.
I've never understood why slender and graceful is always considered to be an opposite of chiseled and beefy. It seems like a pointless separation of concepts, and solely based in the perceptions of popular culture.
I am someone who has stated for a long time, back to the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, that I was not a fan of certain of the artists used for Pathfinder. I am not a fan at all of Kyle Hunter's style of art. His art is the one doing the "racial lineup" art most people seem to object to, as well as the Harrow Deck. His art is the reason I did not buy the Harrow Deck, which I was otherwise quite excited about getting.
I know that the folks at Paizo really love Mr. Hunter's art, which is quite fine with me. I know that everyone does not share my preferences in art, in music, and in fiction. It doesn't mean they are wrong, just different. Now, if I had my choice I would not use Mr. Hunter's art, nor would I use any art that shows so-called weapons as ridiculous as the one shown on page 8 of alpha release 2. Sure, it's a fantasy game, but you can only stretch that so far before it becomes absurd.
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The rogue, I LIKE... THAT is an elf; lanky, lithe, ears POINTED, not LOPPY like a donkey, aptly put term. And as far as his chisel-ness and towering over the human, I've read all the outcries in WoW as to why they made their male elves all chiseled and beefy, and you know what I say to those who would cry about it? If you're not secure enough in your own masculinity to play an elf knowing that they're slender, graceful, and to a point, androgynous, then there are legitimately beefy races you can play. Even Orlando Bloom was a pretty boy as Legolas; I seriously doubt any less ladies swooned over him in that role. I know my wife certainly did.
And yes, you might be surprised as to some people's fanaticism over it. Not just the elves, but a fanatical crusade to wipe out the influence of WoW-ization on the tabletop.
maybe Orlando he even got more ladies swanning over him....
Actually... maybe the ears were not mentioned... but for those who have read the Lord of the Rings Trilogy... elves were talk, perfect and chiseled... they were stronger, more resiliant and more beautiful than humans...
so deal with it... elves are like that... the ears i blame on Record of Loddoss Wars' Deedlit... but she was beautiful so I don't complain... and AYE... that Rogue is THE ELF for me :D
. . .nor would I use any art that shows so-called weapons as ridiculous as the one shown on page 8 of alpha release 2. Sure, it's a fantasy game, but you can only stretch that so far before it becomes absurd.
Technically, almost all current fantasy artists create art featuring weapons like that at some point. However, such weapons are usually in the hands of giants or other similarly massive beings.
You need to remember that Amiri's sword was not intended to be used by a medium-sized creature, and that she had to undergo special training with it to use it effectively. By no means would such a difference in size be standard. I imagine the size of that sword was specifically requested when the art was commissioned.
. . .nor would I use any art that shows so-called weapons as ridiculous as the one shown on page 8 of alpha release 2. Sure, it's a fantasy game, but you can only stretch that so far before it becomes absurd.Technically, almost all current fantasy artists create art featuring weapons like that at some point. However, such weapons are usually in the hands of giants or other similarly massive beings.
You need to remember that Amiri's sword was not intended to be used by a medium-sized creature, and that she had to undergo special training with it to use it effectively. By no means would such a difference in size be standard. I imagine the size of that sword was specifically requested when the art was commissioned.
Well, I will just say that I should not have to know the intimate details of some character or another when I am looking at the art in a core roleplaying book. Since the art isn't labeled, nor associated with some class/skill/feat of ridiculous weapon wielding, I will just reiterate my strong dislike of the art and the weapon depicted therein.
Oh, and for the record, this is the first time I have seen fantasy art of late (outside of some anime-influenced art) that depicts a weapon of such absurd dimensions.
Sorry if I sound a bit snippy about this, it's just something that has bugged me lately, and has been intimately involved with Pathfinder and my dislike of the art.
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definitively i love the art... and the Rogue Elf looks inhuman, instead of just an stylized human... she looks cool like that
That's what really made me like Pathfinder's elves. Personally I prefer the long ears over "Vulcan" ears too.
I remember people hating on DiTerlizzi's art back in the 90's. Why must my favorite D&D artists be so divisive? ;)
Well, I will just say that I should not have to know the intimate details of some character or another when I am looking at the art in a core roleplaying book. Since the art isn't labeled, nor associated with some class/skill/feat of ridiculous weapon wielding, I will just reiterate my strong dislike of the art and the weapon depicted therein.
What's in the books now is reused art, and this is why it doesn't always fit the section it's associated with. Paizo has already confirmed that they will be getting new, more appropriate works for the book when it's finally released.
Oh, and for the record, this is the first time I have seen fantasy art of late (outside of some anime-influenced art) that depicts a weapon of such absurd dimensions.
Have you seen any art depicted sword-wielding giants? If you have, you've seen a weapon of that dimension.
Amiri's sword is a giant's bastard sword, which she claimed as her own. It seems so disproportionate for her because, well, it is; the sword was made to be used by a giant, not a human barbarian.
Sorry if I sound a bit snippy about this, it's just something that has bugged me lately, and has been intimately involved with Pathfinder and my dislike of the art.
If this is your biggest concern in regards to the art, then you likely have nothing to worry about.
Sorry if I sound a bit snippy about this, it's just something that has bugged me lately, and has been intimately involved with Pathfinder and my dislike of the art.If this is your biggest concern in regards to the art, then you likely have nothing to worry about.
Actually, the weapons are not my only concern about the art. As I said previously, I am really not a fan of Kyle Hunter's art style. The "look, I am trying to draw people that look like I carved them out of wood" style does nothing for me, and actually turns me off of a product. I really wanted to get the Harrow Deck, as it sounded quite interesting and could have lots of good roleplaying uses. When I saw the sample art from Mr. Hunter, and found he was the sole artist on this project, I went from being a guaranteed buyer to someone who is not buying it. I would really like the rules for the Harrow Deck and some nice art to go with it, but that is not happening.
I also don't like the giant chihuahua ears on the elves. I think they are silly, unnecessarily large, and make the elves look more cartoonish then they should. Plus, if the elves get a hearing bonus with their outlandish ears, shouldn't the orcs get it too? Their ears are nearly as silly as the elves. Were the ears on the elves done just to make them look different than the elves from D&D? Yes, I know the design of the elves are from products produced before the Pathfinder RPG was announced, but the question still applies.
I won't go into my complaint about most women portrayed in fantasy art needing to eat a sandwich, that's enough for a rant all its own.
Now, I will say that I like the look of the goblins. I think they are a good variant on the standard goblin. So, I do like some of the art.
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well dude people can't make happy everyone... Cest la vie
I myself like the art and think is one of the best i have seen... is not completly anime like (like the 3rd edition token chars of Vampire: The Masquerade) or of other products... and it gives enough inhuman character to the other races... which I find ok
*points to his avatar* i do love that elven rogue :D
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Wow.. I just realized something.. all you guys that don't like.. none of you are Paizo customers. That totally explains why none of you like the lines, Paizo does them in ALL of their stat blocks in all of their GameMastery and Pathfinder books.
First of all - I like the Layout and most (races - not so) of the Artwork. I just wanted to remind that not being a subscriber isn't the same as not being a customer. I own every game mastery and every pathfinder item published (although I'm behind publishing one or two month, since my local store takes its time to get its paizo products. I do not subscribe because I do not own a credid card (hardly as common in germany as in the united states) and because I want to support my flgs as much as I can - there are few enough out there.
Actually... maybe the ears were not mentioned... but for those who have read the Lord of the Rings Trilogy... elves were talk, perfect and chiseled... they were stronger, more resiliant and more beautiful than humans...so deal with it... elves are like that... the ears i blame on Record of Loddoss Wars' Deedlit... but she was beautiful so I don't complain... and AYE... that Rogue is THE ELF for me :D
And there is nothing wrong with Deedlit :P
I can understand the ear-hate from both sides and to be honest I really dont care which way they go.. its just to me I would prefer a more exagerated elf style to help seperate the human - half-elf - elf visual look
Maybe give the "classic" small point ears to the half-elfs and leave the anime (or even the exagerated elf-rogue iconic look) for the pure-blood elfs.
Does anyone know who is doing the art for the books?