yeah i do to myself need to fiddlewith it some.
I like it too! :)
Very happy with the new system myself. Especially Open Lock moving to Disable Device.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
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I as well like it, though i think the distinction between class and cross class might become a little insignificant at upper levels (which means I will have a lot more people cross classing use magic device) however I'm not saying thats a bad thing either. Though at first level many of my group use the extra skill points to gain little bits of knowledge. 4 skill points didn't mean +4 to one, it means 4 knowledges I can attempt fully (which with 5 people groups someone might make a DC 20 even if its 1 rank across the entire group) However for Linguistics being 1 rank equals 1 language with little class / cross class distinction (for the speak languages portion) I know a fighter in my current group who is going to be learning lots of languages.
I think the cross-class penalties diminishing makes sense. If you put your mind to something for a long time, you can master it nearly as well as someone whose primary focus (class) relates directly, though it will be harder at first.
I absolutely love the new take on skills. Eliminating x-class and x4, and giving a straight +3 to class skills is long overdue.
Rogues, rangers, and bards get their primary roles back. Fighters and clerics can actually get good at something not on their class lists. Backward compatibility is near-perfect, especially for NPC who just maxed out class skills anyway.
This beats 3.5 and Pathfinder 1.0 both by a mile. Beautiful!
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Mostly I like it.
I think that there are some things that could be better. But without regard to what I think would make a better houserule, I do have two issues that I think are problems.
1) The Prestige Class requirements. Forget about different ranks for whether it is a class skill or not. Needlessly complicated. The skill system is moving away from cross-class skills because they are lame. Don't keep this artifact.
2) Concentration isn't in the new system. That I'll save for the houserules section.
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Let's see ...
* Cost per rank in any skill = 1 skill point: check
* Maximum ranks in any skill = total character levels/HD: ok
* Skill checks = 1d20 + ability modifier + misc. modifiers + ranks: ok
* No x4 skill points at 1st level: check
* No cross-class skills BUT a flat +3 bonus to class skills with ranks: ok
* Once a skill is a class skill, it is always a class skill: check
* No skill synergies: check
* Increases in skill points due to permanent changes in Int are applied retroactively: unknown
Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a nice little easy-to-use skill point system here. Seriously, I think it achieves just about everything we were looking for - 1:1 skill points:ranks, a simple skill check formula, cumulative class skills, no synergies, even no x4 at 1st level! Class/cross-class skills are in there but in a way that is easy to calculate without division (and it doesn't pop!). The only thing not mentioned is retroactive Int bonuses. Players have lots of flexibility and DMs can create high-level NPCs quickly. Awesome.
I also want to say it was an absolute pleasure tinkering with the various possibilities with you all. I enjoyed it immensely.
Finally, Jason, thanks. Thanks for listening, thanks for paying attention, thanks for caring what we think.
PS- I think I'm still going to want to houserule in the Aid Another/Aid Self style synergy bonuses.
I still think I like the other system a bit better, but either way this seems to look like it will still work well. I may houserule the old ones, but this still looks pretty good.
The only thing that gives me concern is the PrC sidenote.
I wouldn't mind a variant option sidebar in the rules like ya did with the number of magical effects optional sidebar.
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* Maximum ranks in any skill = total character levels/HD
I just thought of something. This means that at 1st level you can only add 1 rank in any skill. Sure, you get the +3 for class skills, but two clerics who choose the same skills are always going to have the same ranks. By 2nd level you'll start to get some potential variation if one branches out, but at 1st level, the only variation will be in what people choose, not how good they are at their skills.
I think I'd like the max ranks per level a little higher than max ranks = level. Even if it were just max ranks = level+1 so a rogue could have 1 rank in 8 skills or 2 ranks in 4.
Personally, i'm not such a fan. I thought alpha 1 was beautiful. I'd like to see something that's a bit more of a compromise.
That being said, if they must do the ranks, the number of skill points needs to increase for the 2+int mod classes.
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The skill system worried me the most of all the changes in the 1st alpha test, but I like the new one. The only complaint I might have (although without having playtested it yet) 2+int. bonus skill points are to few for any class, since there are skills representing intellectual training, social training and physical training.
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* Increases in skill points due to permanent changes in Int are applied retroactively: unknown
I think I found the answer:
Ability Bonuses (from p. 116)
Some spells and abilities increase your ability scores.
Ability score increases whose duration is one day or less
give only temporary bonuses. For every two points of
increase to a single ability, apply a +1 bonus to the skills
and statistics listed with the relevant ability…
Ability bonuses with a duration greater than one day
actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours.
Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This
might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other
bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case
they are removed.
As I read this, yes, Int bonuses are retroactive. That includes those from ability increases and - kind of - from magic items. check
I really like it. The starting skill levels are a little low for me, but thats very easy to house rule.
Mostly I like it.
I think that there are some things that could be better. But without regard to what I think would make a better houserule, I do have two issues that I think are problems.
1) The Prestige Class requirements. Forget about different ranks for whether it is a class skill or not. Needlessly complicated. The skill system is moving away from cross-class skills because they are lame. Don't keep this artifact.
2) Concentration isn't in the new system. That I'll save for the houserules section.
Concentration is part of Spellcraft.
As I read this, yes, Int bonuses are retroactive. That includes those from ability increases and - kind of - from magic items. check
I'm confused by this - isn't an ability bonus different from an ability increase? As in, one is from a spell/item and one is from increasing in level.
So would increasing your ability score by reaching level X, really retroactively increase HP, skills etc.? Does it do this in 3.x? I'm a little unclear on these rules and don't have my books to hand.
Could we get a ruling? :)
Peace,
tfad
:::edit:::
Forgot to say how cool the new skill system is - elegant, back compatible and a genuine improvement!
Yay!! Simple and beautiful skill system! I love it.
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So far the new rules look quite good. Nice compromise.
I'm so delighted to see the death of skill synergies and the 4x multiple at first level.
Now I don't feel like a screwed up if I want to take a level of rogue that's NOT at level one. Superb fix there.
I'm not 100% on the caps or the way cross-class skills work, but it's got good potential and I'm going to give it some test runs with my group over the next few weeks.
I'm still a little iffy on the linguistics skill as well...
