Matthew_'s page

In the spirit of expressing concerns/interest, I notice that the iconic fighter preview is said to do +8 damage with his long sword when using power attack versus +4 with his short sword. Can you tell us if this is a) one of the new fighter abilities, b) if power attack has been altered in the final version, or if c) the reference is to the long sword being used two handed?

Probably because not everyone agrees. For instance, I don't agree; I think the D20 1.5 version of Power Attack is lame and completely unbalanced. If enough people take that view and the designers are minded to listen and agree with them, then Power Attack will be altered for PathFinder.

I agree. I have been using a similar skill approach for a while [1:1 Skill Point Advancement, -4 Modifier for Cross Classed Skills, Adjusted DCs], but this has a much greater degree of backwards compatability.

Well done!

Maybe 'Max Dex' can be tweaked a bit. Perhaps Fighters with a high Strength can continue to apply their full Dexterity Bonus even in Heavy Armour. What if Armour Training allowed them to apply as much of their Dexterity Bonus to Armour as they have Strength Bonus up to a maximum of [0.5 x Level] or [1.0 x Level]. I suppose there would be a little bit of power creep, but the necessary MAD would probably be a fair exchange. A Level 20 Fighter with Full Plate Armour +5 and both a Strength and Dexterity of 30 would be rare enough.

Interesting that you should say that. Dagger is a generic term for knife, which has been the preferred method of killing people for millennium before the advent of firearms. Rapiers are known for their use for at least 2 centuries (admittedly mostly in Europe) and the bastard sword CERTAINLY has historical precedent. It is the step-cousin (Hand-and-a-half sword) to the Zweihander, the Greatsword, the Claymore and the Katana. Not nearly as popular as the aforementioned weapons, but there nonetheless.

How long is a dagger blade? How wide? What shape? curved or straight? What is the weight of a dagger? What is its hilt furniture like? is it a pugio or a poignard? There are many possible permutations. A Long Sword may have a 24" blade, a 36" blade or something inbetween and weigh anything from 2-3 lbs. Is it a Spatha, a Semi Spatha, pointed, rounded or what [no piercing damage, you say...]? It's certainly not a 'Long Sword' as the word is most commonly used nowadays, which might more easily be applied to he D20 Bastard Sword. The word Rapier is used of all manner of very different looking weapons, and I'm not at all convinced that D20 depictions correspond to a real world example.

Perhaps you see D20 weapons as having very precise real world analogues, and I can understand that, though I don't agree with it. There's a rather good article on weapon nomenclature that you might have seen before here: Sword forms

I'm not as certain as to the axes you mentioned.

Same problem as above. They come in all shapes and sizes and there is little to no indication as to what D20 has in mind when it uses terms like 'Hand Axe', 'Battle Axe', 'Dwarven War Axe' or 'Great Axe', though there are some highly improbable drawings. ;) About the only thing that can be said with reasonable surety is that each is bigger than its predecessor.

Also, isn't logic based upon the abstract concept of ones' perception of reality? Can't abstract combat rules that contain modifiers for statistics such as BAB, enchantments and personal characteristics also include weapon modifiers apart from situational concealment, higher ground or sickness/fear?

They certainly can, but you have to draw the line somewhere. If Picks and Axes of all sizes, lengths, weights and blade shapes (both single and double headed, not to mention combinations) are together treated as part of the same group, I see no reason why Daggers and Swords shouldn't be. Really, a Fighter should be able to handle a specific individual sword he is familiar with, through long practice and use, better than a random sword he picks up from a local weapon smith, but D20 treats them both the same (unless your DM likes to make use of Circumstance Modifiers a lot).

Heh, heh. I'm new here, so I haven't noticed any tensions, but I can well imagine them appearing at a (very interesting) time like this. For what it's worth, my tongue was firmly in my cheek.

Whoops, sorry. had some problems getting used to the forum (I'm not a regular here). I created a separate thread for the Weapons Training stuff.

But you're fine with all axes being part of the same group? I would say that is quite the double standard.

Speaking from experience, there is a DEFINITE disparity between a dagger, a rapier and and a bastard sword. Grouping all three of these blades into a single group would be folly.

Of course (though, to be fair, the D20 Dagger, Rapier and Bastard Sword hardly seem to correspond to any particular historical or real life weapons), but that's also true of Hand Axe, Battle Axe and Great Axe, yet these are happily grouped together for PathFinder. We're not looking at reality simulation here, but logical implementation of abstracted combat rules.

Of course, I agree with you about stat whoring, which is why I prefer AD&D to any version of D20, but this is hardly the place for us to discuss that. D20 is what it is.

I really like what Paizo are doing, but I am still not sold on PathFinder as a 'better' version of Dungeons & Dragons 3.5, which is what it surely must aim to be. That said, I thought it would be worth raising this point for discussion from the Fighter entry in the Alpha 2 Release:

Blades, Heavy - Long Sword
Blades, Light - Short Sword

Axes - Battle Axe, Hand Axe, Light Pick, Heavy Pick
Hammers - Light Hammer, Heavy Hammer, Light mace, Heavy Mace

Bows - Short Bow, Long Bow

Crossbow - Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow

Spears - Short Spear, Long Spear

To put it simply, I really think it would be wise to integrate the 'Light' and 'Heavy' Blades groups. It's just going to be a pain in the ass otherwise, with Fighters who want to use Sword and Dagger or Long Sword and Short Sword being penalised, whilst Fighters wanting to use Long Sword and Scimitar are given the green light.

Just use a 'Swords' heading.

Whilst we're on the subject, any chance of making fighting with two weapons a Standard Action?

It always seemed to me as thought saving throws in D20 were way too weak. Would it be too much trouble to improve them? Three quick and dirty 'fixes' occur to me.

1) All characters have saving throw bonuses equal to level.

2) All characters have saving throw bonuses equal to half level.

3) Change 'good saves' to 'equal to level' and 'bad saves' to 'equal to half level'.

Yeah, that's not a bad idea. I am generally not in favour of exchanging AB for AC on a 1:1 basis (I'm looking at you, Shock Trooper), but it does seem like Combat Expertise is getting the short end of the stick here.

Probably to do with 'Improved' or 'Superior' Combat Expertise, which lets a Fighter dump all his BAB for AC. You're right, though, this version is a bit on the harsh side.

Damn copy/paste function. Okay, fixed it. :)

I'd be up for an improved power attack feat, that lets you power attack X2. Lose twice your strenght to hit, gain that amount to damage.

Actually, I would even be willing to go further than that, assuming that Fighters need all the help they can get past about Level 5. I would be up for:

IMPROVED POWER ATTACK
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +6, Power Attack,
Benefit: Bonus damage from Power Attack is doubled.

GREATER POWER ATTACK
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +11, Power Attack, Improved Power Attack,
Benefit: Bonus damage from Power Attack is tripled.

PERFECT POWER ATTACK
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +16, Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack,
Benefit: Bonus damage from Power Attack is quadripled.

Level 5 Fighter

Level 10 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 24
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +3, Large Shield,
Attack: +20 (1d8+10)
Power Attack: +13 (1d8+24)

Level 15 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 28
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +4, Large Shield,
Attack: +28 (1d8+13)
Power Attack: +19 (1d8+40)

Level 20 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 30
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack, Perfect Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +5, Large Shield,
Attack: +35 (1d8+15)
Power Attack: +25 (1d8+55)

Level 5 Fighter

Level 10 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 24
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack,
Equipment: Great Axe +3,
Attack: +20 (1d12+13)
Power Attack: +10 (1d12+33)

Level 15 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 28
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack,
Equipment: Great Axe +4,
Attack: +28 (1d8+17)
Power Attack: +15 (1d12+56)

Level 20 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 30
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack, Perfect Power Attack,
Equipment: Great Axe +5,
Attack: +35 (1d12+20)
Power Attack: +20 (1d12+80)

Yeah, I'd be up for that.

What do youmean 'what?'. Hey, maybe I'm looking at the wrong version of Pathfinder, but what I'm reading there is:

POWER ATTACK
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisite: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Add an amount equal to your Strength modifier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower) to your melee damage rolls for one round (in addition to the normal damage modifier from a high Strength score). Subtract the same amount from your melee attack rolls for 1 round. If your attacks are made with a two-handed weapon, add an amount equal to double your Strength modifier to your melee damage rolls for one round (the penalty remains the same).

and what I think it should be is:

POWER ATTACK
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisite: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Add an amount up to your Strength bonus or base attack bonus (whichever is lower) to your melee damage rolls for one round (in addition to the normal damage modifier from a high Strength score). Subtract the same amount from your melee attack rolls for 1 round.
Special: If your attacks are made with a two-handed weapon, you may add up to 1.5 times your Strength bonus, provided the result is equal or less than your base attack bonus.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Iam not happy that they're keeping the 2:1 exchange rate for Two Handed Weapons. The way I see it, no general feat like this should so strongly favour one type of weapon over another.

I like the fact that it is limited both by Strength Bonus and Base attack bonus, but I do think that Players should be able to decide how much of it to apply. One option would be to allow Two Handed Weapons to use their modified Strength Bonus as the upper limit, i.e.

Level 6 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 18

Long Sword and Shield Power Attack = up to -4 AB for up to +4 DB [i.e. BAB 6, Strength Bonus 4]
Great Sword Power Attack = up o -6 AB for up to +6 DB [i.e. BAB 6, Strength Bonus 6]

I really like what Paizo are doing, but I am still not sold on PathFinder as a 'better' version of Dungeons & Dragons 3.5, which is what it surelymust aim to be. That said, I thought it would be worth raising this point for discussion from the Fighter entry in the Alpha 2 Release:

Blades, Heavy - Long Sword
Blades, Light - Short Sword

Axes - Battle Axe, Hand Axe, Light Pick, Heavy Pick
Hammers - Light Hammer, Heavy Hammer, Light mace, Heavy Mace

Bows - Short Bow, Long Bow

Crossbow - Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow

Spears - Short Spear, Long Spear

To put it simply, I really think it would be wise to integrate the 'Light' and 'Heavy' Blades groups. It's just going to be a pain in the ass otherwise, with Fighters who want to use Sword and Dagger or Long Sword and Short Sword being penalised, whilst Fighters wanting to use Long Sword and Scimitar are given the green light.

Just use a 'Swords' heading.

Whilst we're on the subject, any chance of making fighting with two weapons a Standard Action?