Hey, I was wondering if climb speed is actually making any sense.
Remember: Creatures with a climb speed retain their dex.bonus to ac, meaning they can easily dodge and move around while climbing.
If you take a look to which creatures get one, it covers all from spiders over geckos to cougars.
I don't think it's used that good as is.
Let's take a look at spiders (and maybe geckos). They can just as easily run on walls and ceilings as on the floor.
A cougar (or other cat) maybe be a good climber, but they can't just run at the wall. And if you ever saw a cat climbing down a tree, thats certainly a big difference between that and a spider!
My proposal would be to give spiders and other creatures capable of actually walking on walls, the special ability [Wall walking/Wallrunner] (instead of an additional movement rate)
and give other creatures like cats just a (decent) bonus on climb checks.
Time for your comments.
I don't think so. If you say the creature has "wall walking" (or what ever you wanna call it), it would just mean, the creature can use it's basic land speed to actually walk on walls and ceilings.
In fact it's even less problematic than climb speed since there would be no need to stat another movement rate!
I don't think so. If you say the creature has "wall walking" (or what ever you wanna call it), it would just mean, the creature can use it's basic land speed to actually walk on walls and ceilings.
In fact it's even less problematic than climb speed since there would be no need to stat another movement rate!
I agree with this; it never made much sense to me that a viper (Climb +11) and a leopard (Climb +11) are just as good at sticking to a ceiling as a [tiny->large] giant spider (Climb +11). Just make a "spider climb" ability (as the spell) and use it appropriately.
Is it really worth it to change the name from Climb Speed to Wall Walking?
Would Wall Walking allow you to move on ceilings?
It appears to me, that there is no real gain for changing the name or tinkering with the ability. As well, it is not really backwards compatible.
I agree with this; it never made much sense to me that a viper (Climb +11) and a leopard (Climb +11) are just as good at sticking to a ceiling as a [tiny->large] giant spider (Climb +11). Just make a "spider climb" ability (as the spell) and use it appropriately.I don't think so. If you say the creature has "wall walking" (or what ever you wanna call it), it would just mean, the creature can use it's basic land speed to actually walk on walls and ceilings.
In fact it's even less problematic than climb speed since there would be no need to stat another movement rate!
That's what I'm talking about.
And if the ability itself will not be changed, rethink giving it to animals like cats who just use claws to climb trees, but can't actually WALK on walls like spiders or geckos.And besides, If I post something that's of no importance to YOU, you are free to ignore my post, right?
I would do the same with yours. That's what I call netiquette.
Furthermore, the guys from paizo can choose for themselves what they are interested in.
Well, if it comes to stating then look at it this way, Wall Walking uses 12 characters including the space. Climb Speed 30 feet uses 18 characters. I guess that does make it better. Though, such a notion would be discontinuous with the accepted formats regarding land speed and fly. Though that's not important. Calling it Wall Walking just seems like something they would have in 4th ed.
It's not about saving space; it's about the fact that some creatures are good climbers (e.g. squirrels) and some creatures are super-climbers (e.g. spiders) but the rules don't distinguish between the two. If you got rid of Climb speeds, you could have the squirrel use the normal climb rules (with a hefty racial bonus, of course) and have the spider use the rules for the spell Spider Climb (makes sense to me).
Of course Mistwalker is right: it wouldn't be backwards-compatible.
Actually, in the PRPG a Climb speed is the only way to distinguish one natural climber from another unless they're of different HD.
You could have different racial bonuses for different creatures (e.g. a squirrel has a +12 racial bonus and a cat has a +6 racial bonus).
Of course it would get even less backward-compatible, so it's not going to happen.
Ah! Screw Backward Compatibility if it makes MUCH more sense after!
And BTW, we aren't talking about some important mechanics here.
(As was pointed out earlier...)
So if it's not that important and the change would make it more senseful, than for bob's sake change it.
I have always played Climb speeds with a bit of common sense. As I believe that all GMs should. And I know the two sayings on common sense: It's not common, and varies between places/people.
A cat cannot hang off of ceilings. It would have a dex save to make to climb a rock wall (I have seen cats climb a brick wall), but would have a chance. They would have no change to climb a smooth wall.
I wasn't saying that it was unimportant, just that I didn't, and still don't, see the need to change Climb Speed.
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A cat cannot hang off of ceilings. It would have a dex save to make to climb a rock wall (I have seen cats climb a brick wall), but would have a chance. They would have no change to climb a smooth wall.
I've seen cat's hang off ceilings. I think it was a Tom & Jerry cartoon - a dog crept up and barked really loud and the cat would spring to the ceiling being startled to death and be clinging to shaking in fear!
In all seriousness - I understand the original authors point - a cat for instance should have climb bonus - not speed - but I dont see it as a big enough of a barrier that can't be easily house-ruled to really worry about making non-compatible changes to the way the system works.
Not everything that the rules do has to make perfect sense; sometimes the rules are just there to support the mechanics for simplicity and balance.
If however a particular DM needs more sensical rule - he can opt for tweaking it to fit his own vision with a house rule. This woulnd't be that hard to do.
Robert