Fixing Ability Checks

[MilesMk1]

I didn't see this covered anywhere, and I figured it fits in this forum best.

Does anyone think ability checks need revision badly?

The current system, which makes them work much like skills, just does not work, and often tends to produce comical results - like a supposedly very strong character needing 3 or 4 tries to bust open an average door, and so on.

The question is what to do about it? Revise the DCs? Meh. The 4E way (adding 1/2 level to ability checks) does not appeal to me at all, because I see no reason for a Str 10 20th level wizard to be effectively much stronger than a Str 20 1st level fighter, for example. Unfortunately, a good alternative escapes me... Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Chris Rutkowsky]

Well, as someone who plays a character with a +7 STR mod, I can attest that d20 SUX for strength contests. If I had a nickle for everytime a STR 12 character beat my STR 24 character in a tug-o-war, I'd put them in a roll and punch the GM in the face with it.

The d20 is too random-- it doesn't give the due respect to such a huge difference in ability scores.

My solution: The person with the higher modifier always takes 10. It doesn't matter if they are under stress, etc-- it is much easier for the person w/ the higher mod-- so that person takes 10, while the weaker person has to roll good to beat them.

So my character taking 10 would be a DC 17 STR check for the STR 12 character-- requiring a 16 to tie and a 17 to beat me. Much better than the cursing & screaming that happens when my character rolls a 4 and loses to the dead average person who rolled dead average.

When it comes to tests to break down a door, if you could do it by taking 10, then you should automatically do it. If it would take more than a 10, then you have to roll.

Essentially allowing people to take 10 for abilty checks would really fix a lot of problems I think.

If you want everything to be dice rolls-- like arm wrestling, then instead of a d20, use a d6+mod. Then it can still be random, w/o the person with the HUGE str mod having barely any advantage at all.

[Coridan]

I'd like to see a nice streamlined way for people to combine strength checks rather than "Aid Another". Seems silly if the Wizard rolls a 19 and the fighter gets a whopping 8 and thus isn't contributing at all.

[Asgetrion]

I'd suggest adding a new skill (or 'skill category') into the game: Athletics. This would cover Swim, Climb, Jump, Strength checks (Open Doors/Lift/Bend Bars ;), etc. And it would be a class skill for fighters, naturally.

[Radiun]

Chris Rutkowsky wrote:

The d20 is too random-- it doesn't give the due respect to such a huge difference in ability scores.

Start rolling 2d10, adding the results.

Natural 2 has a 1/100 chance of appearing as does a natural 20.
Natural 9 and 13 are both 8/100
Natural 10 and 12 are both 9/100
Natural 11's are 10/100
So rolls from 9 to 13 account for 44/100 results

[Eric Tillemans]

I would make the check 1d20 + 2x(ability mod) instead of 1d20+(ability mod).

And leave the check DCs the same. This would leave the difficulty's the same for characters with 10 in an ability score, but make it easier for those with a good ability score.

[KaeYoss]

Coridan wrote:

I'd like to see a nice streamlined way for people to combine strength checks rather than "Aid Another". Seems silly if the Wizard rolls a 19 and the fighter gets a whopping 8 and thus isn't contributing at all.

That's true. Most other things are not that easy to combine - two people aren't twice as agile as one, or twice as smart - so normally their support helps you only so much (and aid another with its +2 does a decent job of simulating this).

But strength does combine quite well. More people are easily able to lift heavier things, and if two people push against a door, it's more likely to open. Or take tug-of-war.

So I think it would make sense to say that for raw strength checks (like forcing open a door, breaking something off and the like), aid another adds their strength bonus (if higher than +2) to the whole.

I first thought about adding up all the bonuses for the roll, but then 3 mages with str 8 each would have a harder time making strength checks than they had before.

I also thought about adding all scores together, but I'm not sure that would be right. Those 3 weakling wizards would end up with a combined strength of 24! Not to mention An average party with Fighter (Str 18), Cleric (Str 14), Rogue (Str 12) and Wizard (Str 10) ending up with Str 54 (+22)!

That would mean those guys would be able to lift 44800 pounds over their head if they work together (alone, it would be 300+175+130+100=705).

You could also add together their heavy loads (705 lbs in this case) and look what Strength score that would be (25), but I think that would be too complicated.

All in all, I'd say the +2 or more for Strength checks works best.