
Ramses135 |
Will non-PHB1 Basic Classes be included in Pathfinder? I mean, we have Hexblade, Duskblade, Warlock, Warmage, Favoured Soul, Spirit Shaman, Crusader... These are of course only marginally when compared with core classes, but people like them (not all people not all these classes, of course).
I have to start a lobby for Hexblade :-) From the beginning of my D&D days, I liked both ranger and paladin to be a mix between fighter and druid/cleric. But, as a player liking more arcane than divine, I always wanted to have a possibility to effectively mix martial and arcane skills in a way similar to ranger. Hexblade is just perfect, even with his own unique cursing abilities. Please, give me a Pathfinder Hexblade (maybe with some different name, but with the cursing mechanics)! Oh yes, and more curses - maybe some non-combat (all of us may imagine medieval witches said to curse animals, which broked their legs, got diseases and similar).

The Black Bard |

Yeah, as Seeker said, because only the 11 Core classes are OGL, the rest are all copyrighted and off limits to other designers.
That being said, renamed versions that didn't stray too close to the mechanical design of the others is possible, but its a reeeeaaaaally slippery slope, which I doubt Paizo has any interest in playing on. While I'm sure they would crank out remodled and renamed Pathfinder versions of every class if they could, legality is not in their favor.
This goes double for the classes that are mechanically "unique". A scout could be made with a reworked rogue without much trouble, but classes like Warlock, any of the Incarnum classes, or even a Marshal operate on mechanics which literally DO NOT EXIST in the OGL. Which means new versions of said mechanics would have to be designed, that are not near-copies of the original ones.
But Warlock is almost defined by its unique mechanics; remove and remodel them and you may loose the flavor, and the draw, of the class.
As a note, I don't know if this is feasible, but there do exist perhaps 4 classes in OGL that could be turned into "other classes". Those would be the NPC classes of Expert, Warrior, Aristocrat, and Adept. They are part of the OGL, which means they can be modified. Aristocrat could receive a "swashbuckling" upgrade, Adept could be remodled into a "evil eye/hexblade" sort, Warrior into something "marshal" based, and Expert is nearly limitless in where you could take it.
I expect we will either see brand new base classes (Berzerker, Clergyman, Theurge, Thug, etc), OR we will see "option packages" for the existing base classes to remodel them into the missing splatbook classes (Marshal or "Full Metal Bard" Package: loose fascinate and suggestion, gain extra morale improving bardic music powers, remove spells, add heavy armor and shield proficiency).
Or, we will be surprised once again by Paizo, and not see new base classes at all! And while I wouldn't put it past them, the buisiness model shows that new classes means sold product, and Paizo is a buisiness. A good buisiness that invests in its customers and produces loyalty-generating quality products, mind you!

Dragonchess Player |

Will non-PHB1 Basic Classes be included in Pathfinder? I mean, we have Hexblade, Duskblade, Warlock, Warmage, Favoured Soul, Spirit Shaman, Crusader...
It's possible to make OGL versions that come close to capturing most of these. A good reference is the SRD under Variant Rules - Classes.
Crusader, favored soul, and spirit shaman are concepts that can be filled with clerics or druids by taking the appropriate domains/feats, substituting class abilities (i.e., Summon Spirit similar to the 2nd Ed AD&D shaman in Player's Option: Skills & Powers instead of Animal Companion), and/or multiclassing.
Duskblade, hexblade, and warmage are concepts that can be filled by a battle sorcerer or a (barbarian/fighter)/(sorcerer/wizard) multiclass with Arcane Armor Training/Mastery feats.
Warlock is a concept that can fit into the sorcerer (with bloodline/heritage abilites/feats).
Some of the other base classes also work as core variants. Ninja are really just rogues or monk/rogues, samurai are really just fighters, scouts are wilderness rogues, spellthieves are rogue/(sorcerer/wizard) multiclasses (using some optional rogue talents or feats), swashbucklers can be fighter variants (see below).
The only non-core base classes that don't work as variants of core classes are ones that rely on non-core systems (dragon shaman, knight, marshal, etc.) to function.
Fighter Variant: Swashbuckler
The swashbuckler is a duellist and rake, one who is adept with both a sharp sword and sharp wits. He has most of the fighter's strengths, along with an aptitude for social interaction. He concentrates on mobility and canny use of tactics and terrain to defeat his opponents, rather than heavy weapons and armor.
Swashbucklers tend to neutral or chaotic alignments.
Class Skills
Add the following skills to the fighter's class list- Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Tumble. The swashbuckler gains skill points per level equal to 4 + Int modifier (x4 at 1st level).
Class Features
The swashbucker has all of the standard fighter's class features, except as noted below.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Swashbucklers are proficient with simple and martial weapons, light armor, and bucklers.
Bonus Feats
At 1st level, swashbucklers must choose either Combat Expertise or Weapon Finesse as a their bonus feat. Remove Power Attack (and feats in the Power Attack feat chain) from the list of bonus feats available to swashbucklers.

KaeYoss |

That being said, renamed versions that didn't stray too close to the mechanical design of the others is possible, but its a reeeeaaaaally slippery slope, which I doubt Paizo has any interest in playing on. While I'm sure they would crank out remodled and renamed Pathfinder versions of every class if they could, legality is not in their favor.
I also doubt that they want to create dozens of core classes.
As for renaming: Most of those names - and many of the concepts - aren't wizards, and they had no chance defending them: Ninja, Shugenja, Samurai, Swashbuckler, Scout, Knight... Wizard didn't come up with any of these names or concepts. Warlock's not something wizards inventet, either.
Sure, they can't do 1&1 copies, but they could reinvent the concept their way.
Ninja, Shugenja, Samurai, Wu Jen..... All the asian stuff might be part of a "Wuxia Supplement". It could tie into Minkai, Golarion's Asian-flavoured nation/continent (don't remember at the moment which it is).
A ninja would be a lot like the rogue, but with a bit of supernatural or pseudo-supernatural stuff added. Shinobi magic or something like that.
A Shugenja would be an animist priest, a wu jen a sort of arcanist, and the Samurai a fighter-variant with some etiquette and good manners (as well as honourable conduct) thrown in.
Some of the concepts could be achieved with feats or variant class features: A Knight is somewhere between Paladin and Fighter I'd say, a Scout is something like a Ranger or Rogue, a Swashbuckler something like a Fighter or Rogue, and a Warlock is some sort of arcanist with evil background (actually, the names are often quite interchangeable. Sorcerer, Wizard, Mage, Enchanter, Warlock, Thaumaturge, Arcanist, Witch....)
This goes double for the classes that are mechanically "unique". A scout could be made with a reworked rogue without much trouble, but classes like Warlock, any of the Incarnum classes, or even a Marshal operate on mechanics which literally DO NOT EXIST in the OGL. Which means new versions of said mechanics would have to be designed, that are not near-copies of the original ones.
I believe mechanics cannot be protected. It doesn't matter that they don't exist in the OGL.
Warlock: So he's someone who can cast his stuff all day. We already have some things like that in Pathfinder Alpha - Evokers have an energy ray they can use as often as they want. Not that unique.
Marshal: Excuse me? Stuff to boost party members? Auras? Bards and Paladins are using things like that even now.
And I suspect that Pathfinder bards and paladins will do more of that.
As a note, I don't know if this is feasible, but there do exist perhaps 4 classes in OGL that could be turned into "other classes". Those would be the NPC classes of Expert, Warrior, Aristocrat, and Adept. They are part of the OGL, which means they can be modified. Aristocrat could receive a "swashbuckling" upgrade, Adept could be remodled into a "evil eye/hexblade" sort, Warrior into something "marshal" based, and Expert is nearly limitless in where you could take it.
I'd say leave the NPC classes alone. If they want to do new classes, they should do new classes.
But I agree with your aristocrat idea: I myself have thought about a Noble class suitable for PCs, with a mix of knowledge about high society and etiquette and all that (a gossip based ability similar to bardic knowledge comes to mind), their inborn inclination to order people around, and some fancy, swashbucklery way of fighting with "gentlemen's weapons" and you'd have a solid class.
A class that uses hexes is another nice idea. We have buffs, we have damage, we have healing (anti-damage), but no one really specialises in hexing (anti-buffing). There's some here and there, for clerics and enchanters and necromancers, but the idea of a caster that specialises in ruining other people's style should be nice.
The class should have a more-or-less reliable "effect output", not just all "save negates" stuff. Maybe a lot of "save halves"
The warrior's just a warrior, very bland, so of course you could "base" a lot of stuff on it, but you can as well go from scratch, because the warrior has literally no special abilities unique to it.
As for "marshals", I think I can see three classes (two of which are in the core rules) in the rule of "party booster": Bards (inspirational music), Paladins (with an expanded list of auras - my idea was to give them 7 auras over their career, one for each of the traditional Seven Virtues - those would strengthen by belief and conviction, and divine power), and the Noble I mentioned (which would improve them by sheer competence and experience at ordering people around). But I wouldn't mind a pure marshal/captain/commander class, either.
I expect we will either see brand new base classes (Berzerker, Clergyman, Theurge, Thug, etc), OR we will see "option packages" for the existing base classes to remodel them into the missing splatbook classes (Marshal or "Full Metal Bard" Package: loose fascinate and suggestion, gain extra morale improving bardic music powers, remove spells, add heavy armor and shield proficiency).
A lot of packages like these are already in the expanded SRD, originally from Unearthed Arcana.
A thug, for example, is a fighter who gives up his 1st-level feat and heavier armour as well as shields and gain more skill points and class skills (and Urban Tracking as a bonus feat choice). You can also combine it with the variant where they lose their bonus feats and instead gain sneak attack (as rogue)
Berserker's are already sort of there: Barbarians.
Clergymen is just a different name for cleric, could mean anything. There's the cloistered cleric in the rules variants (less armour, lower HD, poor attack bonus, but gains more skill points and Knowledge as a bonus domain, as well as a renamed bardic knowledge)
Or, we will be surprised once again by Paizo, and not see new base classes at all!
Could be. I think we'll see.
I personally wouldn't mind new classes or class variants at all, and would buy the books they come in.

Ramses135 |
If there is one thing I really HATED in D&D3.5 were the additional basic classes in the supplements!
If their system were ANY good. Their classes (including multiclass-rules and PrC) should cover all those ideas COMPLETLY!
Sorry but had to let that out.
It would be a waste to let go all these basic classes. Scout, Swashbuckler and Hexblade have great support between many players I know. I wouldn't mind these or similar core classes in Pathfinder.
So, what core classes will we have? Can we have some more? As I said, a class mixing arcane and martial would be great. And I still don't let the idea of Hexblade / Witch(er) / whatever. A (even male) Witch could have cursing abilities, many of them. 3.5e Hexblade has only one, battle curse. Please please give me more :-)
Alternative class features making Scout or Swashbuckler from Rangers / Fighters / Rogues would be perfect. Personally, I prefer core classes with more options on every level than multiclassing and the whole system of prestige classes.

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So, what core classes will we have? Can we have some more? As I said, a class mixing arcane and martial would be great. And I still don't let the idea of Hexblade / Witch(er) / whatever. A (even male) Witch could have cursing abilities, many of them. 3.5e Hexblade has only one, battle curse. Please please give me more :-)
His spell progression was too slow and most of the saves of monsters were too high by the time he got his spells. The shadow companion or whatever was a good addition but the curve is still too high.
He does have extra curses, there's a Dragon magazine article with all kinds of curses (and a few feats) the Hexblade can use. There's also a magic item or two in the Magic Item Compendium designed specifically for Hexblades.
At the end of the day though, the Hexblade was a good concept, just poorly implemented and ended up sucking a higher levels.
For those looking to replicate a fighter/arcanist class, what about a fighter variant that sacrificed the bonus feats in exchange for being able to choose a wizard specialist school and gain the school's spell-like and supernatural abilities?
In another thead I posted up a feat a fighter.. or any multiclass character could take, to advance the spellcasting levels of their spellcaster class while taking levels in another. Basically it was a feat you'd just keep taking to and you'd get the +1 like prestige classes.
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In any case, the 12 iconic is going to be a mutliclassed sword & sorcery type, so I'm sure paizo is cooking up a method for you to mutliclass without killing your ability to spellcast.