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Oops I forgot 7 Seas!
When my D&D books were confiscated and burned, I got all four of the Dragon Warriors paperbacks. They were better than most other stuff at the time, especially the modules. The spell point system was good too.
Another system that gave endless hours of fun was Earthdawn. I still think Earthdawn is a better system for fantasy roleplaying than D&D. The setting is wonderful too. It eludes me why it is so seldom talked about. The Fasa crew really nailed the systems that tie a group together and had such elegant ideas for the time.
Taliesin: concur on Dragon Warriors - very cool adventures as well. And... there were 6 books (I have 5; missing the Assassin one).
I remeber most of these games. I used to run a game store and thus we played at least one sample session of every game that crossed the threshold. That inquisitive trying out new things attitude has really stuck with me over the years. I have tried dozens and dozens of games and tried to warp my head around some of the strangest game systems.
However, I keep returning to the big name games. they are the most popular for a reason. Slick system design and entertaining settings make the games last. My favorites are still d20 and it's derivatives, World of Darkness and Shadowrun.
Recently, I started a side game using the Decipher edition of the Star Trek Roleplaying Game. The only major problem is the fact that it really helps to be a big Trek fan in order to truly enjoy the game. it doesn't have the same non-fan accessibility that makes the d20 version of Star Wars so easy to get into. However the system is simple and intuitive and easy to pick up and play. The books look great and are relatively easy to use with only one real major flaw. We found ourselves flipping back and forth to make sure we had constructed characters correctly. There is no concise 'these are the steps to make a character' type thing so we just had to guess and assume we were done and ready for play.
Once we got underway we found the system was heavily derived from d20 but smoothed out in many places and discarded the hit point idea for a more realistic, Shadowrun Fourth Edition style damage scale.
I recommend it for any RPG and Trek fan.
Oops I forgot 7 Seas!
Ahh yes! I loved 7th Sea - still play it from time to time.
I found it interesting how they crafted what was essentially supposed to be the European nations of the 1600s with some new twists.
Another system that gave endless hours of fun was Earthdawn. I still think Earthdawn is a better system for fantasy roleplaying than D&D. The setting is wonderful too. It eludes me why it is so seldom talked about. The Fasa crew really nailed the systems that tie a group together and had such elegant ideas for the time.
I though Earthdawn was well-done as well, but I think it suffered from a couple of things, none of them really their fault.
1) It pretty much came out in the midst of Forgotten Realms prime days, and the fact that they both had emphasis on setting as much as mechanics made it hard to compete
2) While I wouldn't call Earthdawn dark, I think its usage of the phrase for all monsters as Horrors hinted at a sort of dark quality that didn't really fit the mold of the fantasy gaming trend in the 90's (outside of White Wolf's stuff maybe).
3) I think that alot of people associated FASA primarily with Battletech and Mechwarrior - hugely popular by comparason. I think folks would see their name on it, and think it was derivative or "second-tier" by comparason - not a uniquely creative product.
4) Finally, I got to say the marketing on Earthdawn was poor at the time. Go back and look at some of the old print advertising - the art used too often looked like some funky Inca/Aztec images in watercolors. Throw in phrases like the "Earth Reborn" and you get impression it's some kind of Mesoamerican Eco-RPG. Not exactly the message you want to send for a fantasy RPG, I think.
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Amber.
Great for character creation, but actually game play fell flat for us. After 2 sessions, we converted all the PCs to 1st level D&D characters -- they've been almost without exception some of the most interesting characters we've ever played.
What I found hilarious about Amber, and would have totally confounded many -ahem- 'competitive' players, was that after the first session, the PCs' stats were a secret even from their owners.
You played, effectively, minor demigods, born of the Royal Family of the One True Reality of Amber (from Roger Zelazny's novels), all the PCs (and a fair few NPCs) coming of age around the same time.
You bid against the other players for your ability ranks in an auction, which set your initial comparative rankings, for each ability score.
You didn't have to spend all your points on ability scores, since you had to hold some back for Shadow-Walking, Trump Mastery, Chaos Magic, bonded items or good luck.
After that, every time you were awarded advancement points, you told the GM what priority you wanted to assign to each of your improvements.
He would then secretly spend those points for you, bumping up any ability, until it matched the next-higher ranking PC or NPC of your generation, some of whom you may not have even met. Leftover points that couldn't afford to meet a specific target were stored for later, as a pool of luck.
You didn't know how many advancement points you had gained, you didn't know how many it cost to move up a rank, if that next rank was held by a PC or an NPC, or how the other players were prioritising their improvements.
The only way to determine who was superior after that was by observation, guesswork and trial and error (which could prove to be suicide).
Total Paranoia.
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One of the weird things about this thread is that many games I think of as well-known classics are showing up on here as little-known: Over the Edge, Ars Magica, Chill, Torg, Toon, Earthdawn, James Bond 007, Amber, Falkenstein, V&V. It's possible that all of those would show up in a list of the top 25 RPGs of all time, but they've been out of print so long that most current RPGers have never played them. That's an opportunity if I've ever seen one.
For little-known-but-great, I pick these:
Bunnies & Burrows: The first of the light RPGs. You basically played Watership Down. Elegant as all get-out.
Sandman: You wake up having no idea who or where you are. A game you could play out of the box, with no introduction.
Everway: Jonathan Tweet invented a style of card reading for a storytelling game better than any other.
Starchildren: Velvet Generation: You play glam-rock aliens trying to survive in a dystopian world where rock can save us all.
Pirates & Plunder: Each player plays a group of pirates, necessary because nearly everything in the world can kill you.
Melee/Wizard/The Fantasy Trip: The first D&D clone that might've actually been better than 1st Edition D&D.
Og: The Game of Senseless Prehistoric Combat: You're cavemen. You have clubs. Hilarity ensues.
Those are some of my faves.
Mike
P.S. Alternity? Definitely a playtest for 3E.
Sandman: You wake up having no idea who or where you are. A game you could play out of the box, with no introduction.
Everway: Jonathan Tweet invented a style of card reading for a storytelling game better than any other.
I do recall Sandman; and Everway was pretty interesting - I felt it was a cross of TORG and the Magic Planewalkers idea.
P.S. Alternity? Definitely a playtest for 3E.
And thank you for reaffirming my suspicions on that from a previous post.
Just bumping this thread to see what else people dredge from their tawdry eighties pasts.
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HoL, Human Occupied Landfill, the Spoof RPG published through White Wolf, with a book that was originally written on cocktail napkins.
And its only supplement "BUTTery HOLsomeness ... With the "real" character creation rules.
Hysterical.
Evil, diabolical fun in a Sci Fi universe mocking and parodying most of the various genre's "Sacred Cows", and generally just perverse comedy.
Organizations like the Church & Munch, a fusion of McDonalds & The Catholic Church run the Universe.
Characters have skills like "Charge Headlong into Eternal Damnation Cause You Think You Can Win" and "That Psycho Bruce Lee Sh!t".
Another Great one on a serious Sci Fi RPG note was Fading Suns. Great System, great setting, very dystopian.
You didn't know how many advancement points you had gained, you didn't know how many it cost to move up a rank, if that next rank was held by a PC or an NPC, or how the other players were prioritising their improvements.
The only way to determine who was superior after that was by observation, guesswork and trial and error (which could prove to be suicide).
Total Paranoia.
Heh, we have played GURPS once or twice with something like that...you describe to GM how your characters see themselves, but he then creates the characters as he sees fit...
There were occasional surprises :)
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Qin. One of the most beautiful high quality books I own and I own quite literally more gaming books then every gaming store I've been in.
This is the game Exalted has dreams of being. Wuxia at it's finest. Go buy a copy from Paizo right now. }: P
Oh and Fringeworthy and Bureau 13 are excellent rare games. Sliders and X files respectively, written before either was on TV.
Alternity? Definitely a playtest for 3E.
I loved the Dark Matter setting for Alternity. I'm having fun reading the new Trail of Cthulhu from Pelgrane Press and if I feel really ambitious in the future I might try and run Dark Matter using that GUMSHOE system.
But the RPG I love the most is the Marvel Super-Heroes Adventure Game using the SAGA system, by none other than Mike Selinker.
Mr. Selinker, I met you briefly at Gen-Con a few years ago and predictably mispronounced your last name. I thanked you for this RPG, which I believe is the best attempt at capturing the fun and spirit of comic books. I saw this thread and want to thank you again. I'm running another session of this game next month and three of the players have never had the pleasure of playing.
You created a gem and it is unfortunate that many people never looked past their need for dice to appreciate it. That and it got caught up in Wizards decision to pare down to one role-playing system. What a shame. Seriously. Edge! Trump! Doom Bank! Such simple mechanics but they make for a suprisingly deep game. One in which Cap can adventure together with Thor and Iron Man and a villain like the Vulture can cause headaches for Spidey, just like in the comics! That is what it is all about, well that and having fun. This game delivers fun in heaping helpings! Thanks again.
But the RPG I love the most is the Marvel Super-Heroes Adventure Game using the SAGA system, by none other than Mike Selinker.
Mr. Selinker, I met you briefly at Gen-Con a few years ago and predictably mispronounced your last name. I thanked you for this RPG, which I believe is the best attempt at capturing the fun and spirit of comic books. I saw this thread and want to thank you again. I'm running another session of this game next month and three of the players have never had the pleasure of playing.
You created a gem and it is unfortunate that many people never looked past their need for dice to appreciate it. That and it got caught up in Wizards decision to pare down to one role-playing system. What a shame. Seriously. Edge! Trump! Doom Bank! Such simple mechanics but they make for a suprisingly deep game. One in which Cap can adventure together with Thor and Iron Man and a villain like the Vulture can cause headaches for Spidey, just like in the comics! That is what it is all about, well that and having fun. This game delivers fun in heaping helpings! Thanks again.
Aw, you're a sweetheart. Thanks for the kind words.
My last name is pronounced "Bull-MAHN."
Mike
How about some little know RPGs that you can suggest?
I have a soft spot in my tiny, black heart for 'Bunnies & Burrows'. It's ridiculous, sort of 'Watership Down' gone horribly wrong, but I had a lot of fun playing it.
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Loved the first Marvel Superheroes RPG and the "FASERIP" system.
Please see discussion thread on the old marvel system >>>>>>>here<<<<<<<<
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The site is lacking right now, but in the game the players take the roles of human children in the real world, ages six to twelve. They fight against the denizens of Closetland, ruled by the Demagogue and its seven horrible kings, each aligned to one of the Deadly Sins. Anyone older than twelve lacks to ability to perceive the monsters in the closet, so they're of no help to the PCs. However, the children who still believe in monsters can use a sort of magic based on the power of their imagination to combat the awful things that wish to do them harm.
The game was like a nightmarish version of Monsters, Inc (both the game and the movie came out in the same year, though, so there doesn't seem to be any pillaging on the part of the game.
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I actually liked Gygax's Dangerous Journeys stuff. Although the game system was needlessly complex, I spent hours reading through the spells sourcebook. Just awesome.
Lost Souls.
You are a recently deceased person, returned as a ghost. You randomly determine your cause of death and type of ghostly form, plus some background events. Then you try to figure out how to use your ghostly abilities to complete unfinished business and earn good karma so when you are reincarnated, you'll come back as something better than pond scum. And if you are damaged, you lose Will To Live - run out, and you reincarnate immediated (removing you from the game).
Creating characters is a blast. And the action resolution mechanic is pretty ingenious, actually.
I have to second this. It's a great system that challenges you in unexpected ways. For example, being incorporeal means that you can't pick up items, or ride in cars without going to a lot of trouble.
And the character death tables are worth the price of the book alone.
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I'll also add Feng Shui, a game that predicates itself on the idea that characters should be doing cool stuff - all the time. And it has cool names for powers like 10,000 Bullets, and "classes" like Science Ninja.
It pretty much includes everything I ever wanted in a RPG: hopping vampires, Chinese sorcerers, cybernetic demons, evil corporations, old west horror and time travel.
It's like Big Trouble in Little China meets Time Bandits.
Also in the Time Travel category are Timemaster and Continuum, both games that actually allow for the idea that you can change history if you really want to and are willing to deal with the consequences.
For those remembering Alternity...
There's a fairly strong contingent of online fans dedicated to that game here...
http://alternityrpg.net/onlineforums/
It's easily my favorite system. I've spoken with (and interviewed) many of the original TSR designers, and yes, many elements of its game design transitioned from Alternity into D20. I also think Alternity had some of the best campaign settings ever devised for modern/sci-fi gaming. It's hard to go wrong with Dark.Matter, Star*Drive, or even the Alternity Gamma World setting...which is even more gritty under the Alternity ruleset.
So, if you've never looked at Alternity (or missed it when it came out), you really owe it to yourself to check it out.
Just my two-cents,
--Neil
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I also remember playing some great games in those wonderful 80's ...
Remember the ElfQuest RPG? Pretty cool, especially if you were an ElfQuest fan.
I also remember playing Star Frontiers, Villains & Vigilantes, Chill, Twilight2000 - good times.
Anyone remember Bushido? It was a great feudal Japanese RPG ... samurai, ninja etc, but it had a great, quasi realistic feel.
Toon was good, dumb fun. I had a Superman type, big dumb rabbit that was so much fun ... his name was StudBunny. I did a great drawing of him - big Superman style SB on his chest and everything.
I also have to see if anyone ever played or read through the Aria RPG. It was a complex, detailed fantasy RPG that was pretty ahead of its' time. In some ways, it even had elements that seemed to become part of D&D Third Edition. Of course, I'm biased because I had a small part in that game.
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Talislanta was and is the best exotic fantasy rpg ever made, hands-down. I whiled away many high school days playing that game...
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I
I also have to see if anyone ever played or read through the Aria RPG. It was a complex, detailed fantasy RPG that was pretty ahead of its' time. In some ways, it even had elements that seemed to become part of D&D Third Edition. Of course, I'm biased because I had a small part in that game.
Read through? Yes, including the "worlds" supplement.
Played? Not yet. It looks formidable.For those of you unfamiliar with Aria, your character is, essentially, a culture, which interacts with other cultures, attempts to influence or subsume them ... and which may, in time of need, bring forth a champion, a legendary hero who embodies the virtues and weaknesses of your PC.
Has anyone heard of "MythWeaver" and/or Army Ants? I saw that DriveThruRPG was having a sale, and both games looked like fun. I see that MythWeaver is rules-lite, even so much as allowing spellcasters to create a spell on the fly! Feedback about it beyond a quick google search is appreciated. The cost is about $12 for a complete rules set and some additional stuff (monster book, hero guide, etc.). Paizo has nothing on it here.
flashing blades:)
How about some little know RPGs that you can suggest?I have a soft spot in my tiny, black heart for 'Bunnies & Burrows'. It's ridiculous, sort of 'Watership Down' gone horribly wrong, but I had a lot of fun playing it.
If it was written in a twisted way it was great fun>)
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I also have to see if anyone ever played or read through the Aria RPG. It was a complex, detailed fantasy RPG that was pretty ahead of its' time. In some ways, it even had elements that seemed to become part of D&D Third Edition. Of course, I'm biased because I had a small part in that game.Read through? Yes, including the "worlds" supplement.
Played? Not yet. It looks formidable.For those of you unfamiliar with Aria, your character is, essentially, a culture, which interacts with other cultures, attempts to influence or subsume them ... and which may, in time of need, bring forth a champion, a legendary hero who embodies the virtues and weaknesses of your PC.
Well, that was one aspect of the game certainly. You could also play an individual character and adventure in the more traditional way. In fact, that was actually the primary way to play. The rules even had special talents you could give your characters which, in looking back, remind me VERY much of what became feats in D&D. The 'playing' of a nation or other society aspect was cool because it allowed you to create the society more organically, by role-playing it. You also could do both, which was very innovative.
You could, for instance, play your character for a while and then, for example, get caught up in a war between nations. Maybe you end up on one side as part of an army. At that point, you could switch into a 'big picture' mode (I think it was called "Aria Time") and actually role-play the country while the GM controlled the other country. You could roll dice, role-play leaders, make tactical moves etc - it was very cool.
You could also, as I have done on more than one occasion, use the incredibly well thought out and detailed rules for creating each nation or society to breath life into your various countries, groups and societies for your D&D campaign. I was actually working on an article for Dragon in which the ARIA system and rules for this were modified to work more closely with a D&D homebrew world, but ... well, WOTC killed our beloved mag before I could get it anywhere close to being complete.
Way to go, WOTC ...
I say go for it, Marc Radle 81. Sure, Dragon and Dungeon are no more, but you're still here. Homebrew it on a blog like I and so many others here do. I'd love to see it. I'm going to look around for this Aria of which you speak...maybe there's still a copy at my FLGS.
Lets see, soem of the ones that i have a soft spot for have been mentioned already. I'd also throw my hat in with :
Powers and Perils : by Avalon Hill. Had all of three supplements, but the original creator still publishes stuff for it on his own website to this day.
Tales from the Floating Vagabond : When i am in the mood for puns, slapstick, and cliche abused humor.
Earthdawn : awesome game and conceptual setting. REALLY sorry to see that one get discontinued, the suppliments actually got better with every one released.
Dragonquest : actually released by TSR and had a compatible DnD module release.
My other favorites are more recognised and mainstream : Champions, Shadowrun, etc.
In hindsight, i think that my 'favorite' games hinge in a large part on how enjoyable the first couple sessions were when i actually sat down to play (or GM) it.
Fair is fair! How about some little know RPGs that you can suggest? Now I am not talking the big one like Vampire, Shadowrun, D&D or Traveler. How about some little known games that have that certain edge... that extra color... that fun that keeps you returning for more.
:-)
Fireborn, KULT, Mächte-Mythen-Moddermonster, Toon, Plüsch-Power-Plunder, Cyberspace, "thisoldpirategamethenamelongforgotten", flashing blades, space opera, DareDevils, privat eye, palladium frp, spacemaster, underground ... and a lot I do NOT have
Earthdawn : awesome game and conceptual setting. REALLY sorry to see that one get discontinued, the suppliments actually got better with every one released.
It is not discontinued - www.earthdawn.com
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Extra love here for 7th Sea, the first roleplay setting that I really fell head over heels for, shame the binding on the books are so poor that all of ours are falling apart.
I'm a big fan of Godlike/Wild Talents, the One-Roll system is a bit wonky, but the setting is awesome, really looking forward to getting my hands on Monsters and Other Childish Things too.
Dread is horror, and uses Jenga for conflict resolution which makes it awesome. Also the questionnaire character generation is gold.
The Mountain Witch is rather cool, and surprisingly replayable for such a limited concept
But mostly all my love goes to anything by Lumpley Games. Someone else mentioned Kill Puppies For Satan, but I'd also recommend Dogs in the Vineyard (gunslinging Mormons) and In a Wicked Age (randomly generated fantasy), seriously, pick up either of those two, grab a few experienced roleplayers (or at least confident, the games are very character driven, so if people expect the GM to lead them by the hand nothing will happen), and prepare for some awesome collaborative storytelling. There's a nice breakdown of why Dogs is awesome here.
Oh, and if you're looking for lots of new, cheap games to play I've read or played most of these and they're all pretty interesting, Prime-Time Adventures in particular is another one worth checking out.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Little Fears
I remember looking at this game in a gaming store about 6 years ago. I was very tempted to buy it because of the sheer creep factor, but ended up deciding against it because I knew the sort of drooling mongoloids I had for players at the time wouldn't appreciate it.
A group of friends and I started a yahoo group for testing out experimental and less known games. We called it EGG (Experimental Gaming Groups), and examples of games we've played are Dogs in the Vineyard, It Was a Mutual Decision, Burning Wheel, and many others. One of the most popular is Cell Gamma. It's a three-shot, and it's the sort of game that only GMs should read - it's got a lot of spoilers. Here's the premise from the player's point of view:
It's a really cool game, especially for players who are relatively new to the tabletop scene. They have to get creative.
Artesia the Known World RPG (FuZion based, by Archaia Press).
Most complete RPG product ever. Great art, layout, rules, atmosphere.
I second that. Although there's been nothing since the book was published years ago.
Little FearsI remember looking at this game in a gaming store about 6 years ago. I was very tempted to buy it because of the sheer creep factor, but ended up deciding against it because I knew the sort of drooling mongoloids I had for players at the time wouldn't appreciate it.
I have a friend who purchased Little Fears and has similarly had difficulty finding others play it.
Tales from the Floating Vagabond - Humor RPG with a very cinematic system.
Paranoia - Probably not the best game for a longterm campaign, but fantastic fun for one-shots.
Wraith - I know it's Storyteller, but I've never heard of anyone actually playing it.
I really like Toon.
Yeah Toon was cool. I played Wraith and like other World of Darkness games, it had to be pretty story oriented to work well in my limited opinion. Anyone play Torg? What about Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG?
and (dare I say it) anybody like the Palladium stuff? I like it all, but I mean the lesser/newer games ( splicers, the bug-one (forget the name, how embarrassing), Dead Reign). I like them all really ( there I said it).
Some of my favourites from days gone by:
- Ringworld
- Stormbringer
- Villains & Vigilantes
- Toon
I wouldn't classify Toon and V&V as "little known", but they're awesome anyway. :-)