"I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
I be sleeping all night. I be working all day."
"The trees have eyes."
Things learnt whilst adventuring #26: Dwarves have negative buoyancy
Poor Orlan.
... heheh ... and what's with Manfred sticking out his lance for him to grab when he has a perfectly good rope in the backpack.
"Grab my lance, my long beautiful lance!"
I swear, Freud would diagnose Manny while he walked in the door and spend the rest of the session talking about his own mother.
...
But seriously, you 1st level characters attempting to discover a fortress that hasn't been inhabited by civilized creatures in over 2000 years. Without unduly slowing the game, there have to be bumps along the way.
Well Orlan, it could be worse. You could be fished out by your 60-year-old, 5'6" father-in-law who proceeds to brag about how he "saved your life" for the rest of the week.
:-(
Have to say that waiting overnight to post Rellios' response only added to the tension in our current encounter.
I think it must've been driving Klyndak and Hru crazy! And Tarren's only making it worst with his creepy sounds...great stuff!
since I hit it early friday, last night I kept checking zzzztokzzztok
so it actually did increase the tension, and I really didn't read the spoiler till after you posted so all night i was waiting for wasps or bee riding ettercaps (the bat riders rivals) so this is actually more bizarre...plus I must have wasted 15 more minutes on flicker looking at pictures after that
Sounds personal :-)Well Orlan, it could be worse. You could be fished out by your 60-year-old, 5'6" father-in-law who proceeds to brag about how he "saved your life" for the rest of the week.
:-(
Yep. :-)
I swear! Our GM has the filthiest mind...;)
Not that my lance is NOT long and beautiful...
Not that my lance is NOT long and beautiful...
I swear you love your lance too much..
Man with big lance have trouble getting it up. So it is said.
Oh dear lord. I don't think I've ever laughed so hard at a game thread. If this is what's in store with my own alpha playtest, I'll need medication.
Sorry. Removing myself from your thread right now.
Forget about oil...it's dwarves and water that don't mix...
It's fun to fail!
I just picture Kamris stoically striding along trying to grab a struggling dwarf glugging water.
We are after bein' doomed cousin if yer lot is after havin' ter rescue mine.
O_o
Are you sure our group won't be coming out of the Spires to rescue your cousin, Klyndak? ;-))
Are you sure our group won't be coming out of the Spires to rescue your cousin, Klyndak? ;-))
I'm after 'opin' its all been some sort of misunderstandin' and we've just been so busy we fergot ta write 'ome. Otherwise we are after bein' doomed.
"Yeah, yeah...rest yer short bearded mouth there, cousin. Unless'n yuh and yer lot got captured by a DANG-BLASTED RIVER...I'm sure'n we'll be gettin' around ta rescuin' yuh eventually. Just let me warm me bones fer a moment and I'll be showin' yuh what's what..."
;-)
How would you change the swim rules to make them more heroic?
I like having the river here because I want to give some reason that nobody knows there is a dwarven fortress that has stood for thousands of years and is relatively impenetrable when defended properly. (The halfling barge full of dwarven wine had a reason for being there which may not come to light).
I like having the river there as a dramatic obstacle but I wouldn't want anyone to die from drowning for a couple of reasons: it seems a really difficult way to kill someone by the current* rules and there is no CR for the obstacle.
What if water were written up more as a trap? Maybe they are somewhere, I'll check the DMG later. But maybe the rules should be streamlined and presented so that XP could be awarded for it.
There should be an incentive for players to take swim as a skill anyhow.
Thoughts?
* pun intended
How would you change the swim rules to make them more heroic?
Three different possibilities spring to mind.
1) By not having them...or invoking them...unless it truly is a hazard/trap with a CR/EL associated with it. In this way, run-of-the-mill encounters involving water don't pose a risk to the heroes of the game. They're essentially extraordinary individuals who only require skill checks when there's an extraordinary obstacle in the way. So, a routine trip upriver...even while wading via horseback...probably wouldn't warrant such a check...or...
2) Include a new mechanic...such as hero points, action points, fate points, what-have-you...which every hero is assigned. Then, when a routine type of situation is botched, a player has the option of spending those points to alter the outcome...and save face for his "hero." This approach would be a bit more equitable, since it's a limited resource and the player would have decide when and where to spend such points to make his character achieve heroic things...or at least, more heroic than the average person.
3) Skip having Swim as a skill and make such challenges Fortitude saves instead. That way, every character has an ever-escalating mechanic (i.e., Fortitude saves) that makes them less likely to fall victim to drowning in such situations. And, for warriors (with all their heavy armor) this would help avoid the huge armor check penalty further compounding the Swim skill.
I like having the river here because I want to give some reason that nobody knows there is a dwarven fortress that has stood for thousands of years and is relatively impenetrable when defended properly.
I think that's cool. It makes perfect sense as a reason for keeping out the routine explorer...i.e., NPCs. But, for the purposes of storytelling and bringing along a group of heroic characters through an adventure, I think you can still achieve the same effect in purely narrative terms. It doesn't necessarily have to be a hazard/trap event that requires skill checks to bypass safely.
I like having the river there as a dramatic obstacle but I wouldn't want anyone to die from drowning for a couple of reasons: it seems a really difficult way to kill someone by the current* rules and there is no CR for the obstacle.
I'm not so sure it's really all that difficult to kill a 1st level hero with such an encounter. Orlan only survived because he barely managed to roll a natural 20 in 32 tries. And, if we weren't using the PRPG rules, Orlan wouldn't have 22 hp with which to resist the hypothermia damage. If we were under the older rules, he'd be much closer to death. So, in that respect, I think this playtest scenario is worthwhile in demonstrating the added survivability aspect now granted to 1st level heroes.
What if water were written up more as a trap? Maybe they are somewhere, I'll check the DMG later. But maybe the rules should be streamlined and presented so that XP could be awarded for it.
I seem to recall there are water-filled room traps at a couple of different CR levels in the DMG. From a design perspective, a DM could probably use a variant of those to define a particularly treacherous part of a river to navigate.
There should be an incentive for players to take swim as a skill anyhow.
Not really. It rarely comes up that often. And, with limited skill points, most PCs never do. The Swim skill is really one of those parts of the game that tries to emulate realism a little too much at times. It could just as easily be rolled up into a Fortitude check as opposed to an actual skill. Or make it more like the way Speak Language used to work. You either know how to swim (or speak a language) or you don't. The ramifications would then effect your Fortitude check.
At any rate, I've probably spent more time analyzing this than is really warranted. For what it's worth, I had a LOT of fun roleplaying Orlan's misadventure in the water. It's no biggie that he failed his check. If I'm quibbling over anything in my own mind, it's that events like these add great entertainment value, but often at the expense of needlessly slowing down or complicating the game. It takes what really ought to be a simple, irrelevant situation (story-wise) and turns it into a potential game-breaker.
But that's just my two-cents,
--Neil
How would you change the swim rules to make them more heroic?Three different possibilities spring to mind...
...
I agree with the gist of it. I think the simplest way would be to have them written as 'traps' with corresponding CR values. Also, climb and swim could be folded into the same skill making it more desirable.
In both playtests, there has been one character that was hopelessly struggling with the water. While it was good for comic relief or to add a sense of realism, I'm sure it just felt like 'This would be a stupid way to die'.
For what it's worth, I had a LOT of fun roleplaying Orlan's misadventure in the water. It's no biggie that he failed his check. If I'm quibbling over anything in my own mind, it's that events like these add great entertainment value, but often at the expense of needlessly slowing down or complicating the game.
I love the image of the dwarf, party leader and commander that he is, trying to get back on his horse and pretending to retain a shred of dignity. Orlan is going to have to kill something ... or a lot of somethings ... before he could feel like the leader again.
I'm not up on their thread, but that was a moment when I debated "If I dive in I'll probably be rolling up a new character, but figured I made a big deal about the sword in my backstory so Hru most likely would have done just what he did...but I got a lucky roll! I figured even if I dove in I might not get it back though so (I been waiting to put this up here)I figured I would lose one domain (destruction and turning/healing till I got a new symbol) and Gorums favor but since I had already provided that Iomedae had given me the strength domain (at least partially) I figured to keep it and be in search of a new god. Also being with dwarves and already establishing myself as a smith I thought to perhaps go with Torag...all kinds of great RP ideas but then I thought it might break up the playtest or stretch it a bit far...plus I made my roll
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How would you change the swim rules to make them more heroic?Three different possibilities spring to mind...
...I agree with the gist of it. I think the simplest way would be to have them written as 'traps' with corresponding CR values. Also, climb and swim could be folded into the same skill making it more desirable.
In both playtests, there has been one character that was hopelessly struggling with the water. While it was good for comic relief or to add a sense of realism, I'm sure it just felt like 'This would be a stupid way to die'.
I don't think climbing and swimming are the best things to fold together. Swimming should, I think, be folded in with other skills in some way but I wouldn't do it with climbing. I'm not really sure what skill does relate well to swimming.
And as for drowning, I figure most people who are about to drown would agree that its a stupid way to die. :)
And the rules are written to encourage something sensible I think. It helps, if you are about to drown, to throw off the copious amounts of metal that you are wearing while you have the time to do so.
As you were typing that I was probably doing just that...I'll have to check the time stamps to see how close...great minds...:) and I like the Kannonfodders so I'm right with you there THEY. MUST. LIVE.
2 hrs 7 minutes (as of when I checked) to 2 hrs 21 minutes so you did indeed suggest it before I did it! (humbly bows) it seems gone are the days when a first level party needs....well...cannon fodder
btw: this is killing my productivity...but I can't stop checking it during work.
btw: this is killing my productivity...but I can't stop checking it during work.
Ditto here! Man...I am so behind...lol.
Honestly, you accidentally set fire to one boyfriend and suddenly nobody wants to hug you, ever! *grumble*
Honestly, you accidentally set fire to one boyfriend and suddenly nobody wants to hug you, ever! *grumble*
Once burned, twice shy? ;-)
Don't no-one go and get themselves killed whilst I'm gone :)
"I can't be makin' no promises in that regard, cousin...especially while there still be a river ta tame. It be one powerful foe!"
Honestly, you accidentally set fire to one boyfriend and suddenly nobody wants to hug you, ever! *grumble*Once burned, twice shy? ;-)
What's the emoticon for 'groan'?
x x
o
"Of course, milord Orlan," Sir Manfred salutes, "Not even the river dragon can deter us from our sacred quest!"
He inspects the creature skewered on his lance with some dissapointment, "They don't seem to be as big as they are in the stories though..."
"Dr. Freud to the discussion thread please. Paging Dr. Freud."
"Of course, milord Orlan," Sir Manfred salutes, "Not even the river dragon can deter us from our sacred quest!"
He inspects the creature skewered on his lance with some dissapointment, "They don't seem to be as big as they are in the stories though..."
"Ummm...yeah."
"That always happens once the battle, um...yuh know...reaches its climax..."
Yeah, after Reefclaw spasm they kind of deflate.
It's all about size with you people isn't it? *shakes head*
Lance double-entendres; pyro loving girl gone wild; flaccid reefclaws metaphors?
I'm beginning to think I'm in the wrong Pbp thread. ;-)
What's going on over there? :-))
Not sure, but it is funny tho....btw nice move with the caltrops, very rogue! We're a destuction machine!
What the hell is wrong with you people?
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Though your jealousy is understandable...
*eyebrow arched, Nimoy-style*
Though your jealousy is understandable...
I'm not jealous.. concerned for your sanity but not jealous :P
Not sure, but it is funny tho....btw nice move with the caltrops, very rogue! We're a destuction machine!
Thanks...I kept waiting for a bunch primitives to grab their feet and go "owie owie owie!"
*Pontificates*
Sometimes a lance is just a lance.