RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
(Just an idea for the design team.)
The barbarian's rage ability leaves players with a lot to keep track of, both during and after the rage. The way the CON boost works also makes it extremely likely that players will die once the rage wears off. Personally, I believe that the barbarian's rage could be simplified into the following:
1. +2 to-hit/damage.
2. +2 temporary HP/level.
3. -2 AC.The bonuses would improve to +3-+4 to-hit/damage and +3-+4 temporary HP/level. Toss out the bonus to Will saves and the fatigued. I realize that these are there to force the barbarian to choose carefully when he rages, but it just adds a lot of bookkeeping and seems a nuisance to me.
I realize that this probably won't go over well with a number of players because it's such a significant change to the mechanics, so I'd like to hear your suggestions on how we could tweak my idea to better fit how you'd like to see the barbarian's rage work.
One of the most useful application of a barbarian's rage is for feats of Strength as well. No one has a better chance of breaking chains or kicking open doors than the party barbarian, especially with a couple of spell buffs (which stack because rage is untyped). With your variant, you would remove the Strength boost by simplifying it into an attack/damage bonus. You would also remove the implied +2 Fort save bonus that comes with the Constitution increase. Overall, in my experience, the barbarian's rage ability is no more bookkeeping than any similar buff spell. I say leave it alone or improve it, but there's no need to simplify it.
One of the most useful application of a barbarian's rage is for feats of Strength as well. No one has a better chance of breaking chains or kicking open doors than the party barbarian, especially with a couple of spell buffs (which stack because rage is untyped). With your variant, you would remove the Strength boost by simplifying it into an attack/damage bonus. You would also remove the implied +2 Fort save bonus that comes with the Constitution increase. Overall, in my experience, the barbarian's rage ability is no more bookkeeping than any similar buff spell. I say leave it alone or improve it, but there's no need to simplify it.
I'll have to agree with fatespinner. The one thing I would change about rage would be to lower greater and mighty rage by a few levels.I feel like a lot of people see how far away they are and decided to either mutliclass and they use the barbarian as a springboard/dip class or think I need to PrC out as soon as I can.
I have never found the book keeping troublsome. In character creation I just go ahead and write my rage in the temp. ability mod area on the character sheet, and write my hp and fort and will change near those areas.
Fizz
I like simple, and it could be done by making Rage a 1/encounter {more at higher levels} thing. Thoughts?
It seems a bit much, a barbarian could just rage ever fight. How long is average combat time? I'm betting not that long. I can only think of a time or two when I stopped rageing before the fight was over.
Fizz
Speaking as a long time barbarian player, I wouldn't mind some different types of rages. Maybe a rage all in one blow for that one monster you just gotta take down. Maybe a limited rage with less AC penalty.
It would make it more complicated but more useful and definitely more tactical than "I rage and attack the monster".
My 2c.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Speaking as a long time barbarian player, I wouldn't mind some different types of rages. Maybe a rage all in one blow for that one monster you just gotta take down. Maybe a limited rage with less AC penalty.
Here's an idea: Rage Focus feats. Imagine Rage kind of like a "state of mind" much like a psionic focus. Now imagine feats that would allow you to terminate your Rage prematurely in exchange for enhanced attacks/abilities.
Witness:
Raging Flurry (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage.
Benefit: While raging, if you make a full attack action against an opponent, you may take an additional attack at your highest base attack bonus. If you choose to take this additional attack, your rage terminates at the end of your turn, regardless of the duration remaining.
Improved Raging Flurry (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, Raging Flurry, BAB +6.
Benefit: As Raging Flurry, except you may make a second additional attack at a -5 penalty.
Greater Raging Flurry (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, Raging Flurry, Improved Raging Flurry, BAB +11.
Benefit: As Improved Raging Flurry, except you may make a third additional attack at a -10 penalty.
Furious Blow (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, BAB +8.
Benefit: You must declare the use of this ability before making any melee attack roll while raging. If the attack succeeds, all variable numeric totals of your damage dice are maximized and you may add double your Strength modifier to the damage total (or three times your Strength modifier for a two-handed weapon). Upon using this ability, whether the attack succeeds or not, your rage terminates immediately after the attack resolves as if it's duration had ended before any further actions you take in the round (if any).
Tenacious Rage (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, base Fort save +5.
Benefit: During your rage, any time you are affected by a spell or ability that would render you fatigued, exhausted, stunned, paralyzed, unconscious, or dead (except hit point loss), you may ignore the effect as though you had succeeded on your save. Using this feat causes your rage to terminate immediately as if it's duration had ended before any further actions you take in the round (if any).
Maddening Frenzy (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, BAB +10, any other Rage Focus feat.
Benefit: During your rage, you may choose to enter a Maddening Frenzy at the beginning of your turn. This frenzied state grants you a +10 bonus to Strength, renders you immune to fatigue, exhaustion, stunning, and all mind-affecting spells and increases your base movement speed by 20. The frenzy benefits stack with the benefits of rage and last for 2 full rounds. When the frenzy ends, your rage also ends as if it's normal duration had expired. If any spell or ability would terminate your rage prematurely, the frenzy is terminated as well.
What do you all think? Look good to you, Mr. Bulmahn? :D
I think rage would work better if it was shorter and could be used more times per day. Here's why: a shorter duration on Rage would add a "sudden death" feeling to fights, adding tension and drama. Under the current rules, rage lasts a long time, typically the entire battle. Most battles are fairly short - only a few rounds.
Secondly, I'd like to see barbarians have more rages/day right from the start. If there's one thing I hate, it's seeing the barbarian hold onto his rage all day long, because he's worried that he'll need it for the last fight of the day.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
I think rage would work better if it was shorter and could be used more times per day. Here's why: a shorter duration on Rage would add a "sudden death" feeling to fights, adding tension and drama. Under the current rules, rage lasts a long time, typically the entire battle. Most battles are fairly short - only a few rounds.
Secondly, I'd like to see barbarians have more rages/day right from the start. If there's one thing I hate, it's seeing the barbarian hold onto his rage all day long, because he's worried that he'll need it for the last fight of the day.
Yeah, I can agree with those sentiments to some extent. Perhaps have Rage start at 1/day and increase by 1/day every other level (3, 5, 7, 9, etc.). As for rage's duration... well... maybe (1 + CON mod) rounds would be better, but... how much do those 2 rounds really matter? Anything shorter than that and it's almost useless.
|
Speaking as a long time barbarian player, I wouldn't mind some different types of rages. Maybe a rage all in one blow for that one monster you just gotta take down. Maybe a limited rage with less AC penalty.Here's an idea: Rage Focus feats.
I wrote a number of feats like that back when I started Living Planar. You're right, it kind of needs the love, and some special options.
But yeah, Rage is great at 1st level, but nearly nobody takes Barbarian past 2nd level if they're trying to make an optimized character, as there are 10,000 ways of making the character better than through the greater and mighty rage abilities.
What does anyone think of a rage dice? Kind of like sneak attack, but extra d6s during rage?
Fizz
What do you all think of dropping rage to +2 Str, +2 Con at 1st level, while making it at least 2/day?
There's a serious problem with "Barb-dipping" on this. It could easily increase at 4th or 5th level back to +4. I don't think adding *too* many extra rages per day would be a good idea. It would end up like bardic song uses - too many to even bother keeping track of, and never a reason to save them.
By the way, Rage *is* 1/encounter - you can't rage again when it ends (fatigue and all).
|
Here's an idea: Rage Focus feats. Imagine Rage kind of like a "state of mind" much like a psionic focus. Now imagine feats that would allow you to terminate your Rage prematurely in exchange for enhanced attacks/abilities.
Raging Flurry (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage.
Benefit: While raging, if you make a full attack action against an opponent, you may take an additional attack at your highest base attack bonus. If you choose to take this additional attack, your rage terminates at the end of your turn, regardless of the duration remaining.Improved Raging Flurry (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, Raging Flurry, BAB +6.
Benefit: As Raging Flurry, except you may make a second additional attack at a -5 penalty.Greater Raging Flurry (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, Raging Flurry, Improved Raging Flurry, BAB +11.
Benefit: As Improved Raging Flurry, except you may make a third additional attack at a -10 penalty.Furious Blow (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, BAB +8.
Benefit: You must declare the use of this ability before making any melee attack roll while raging. If the attack succeeds, all variable numeric totals of your damage dice are maximized and you may add double your Strength modifier to the damage total (or three times your Strength modifier for a two-handed weapon). Upon using this ability, whether the attack succeeds or not, your rage terminates immediately after the attack resolves as if it's duration had ended before any further actions you take in the round (if any).Tenacious Rage (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, base Fort save +5.
Benefit: During your rage, any time you are affected by a spell or ability that would render you fatigued, exhausted, stunned, paralyzed, unconscious, or dead (except hit point loss), you may ignore the effect as though you had succeeded on your save. Using this feat causes your rage to terminate immediately as if it's duration had ended before any further actions you take in the round (if any).Maddening Frenzy (Rage Focus)
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, BAB +10, any other Rage Focus feat.
Benefit: During your rage, you may choose to enter a Maddening Frenzy at the beginning of your turn. This frenzied state grants you a +10 bonus to Strength, renders you immune to fatigue, exhaustion, stunning, and all mind-affecting spells and increases your base movement speed by 20. The frenzy benefits stack with the benefits of rage and last for 2 full rounds. When the frenzy ends, your rage also ends as if it's normal duration had expired. If any spell or ability would terminate your rage prematurely, the frenzy is terminated as well.
Excellent ideas! I was using Rage feats as bonus feats in my playtest, but I like your ideas as well. Maybe a Barbarian Talent mechanic, similar to what the Rogue recieves.
|
|
One of the most useful application of a barbarian's rage is for feats of Strength as well. No one has a better chance of breaking chains or kicking open doors than the party barbarian, especially with a couple of spell buffs (which stack because rage is untyped).
QFT! Being able to pull off cool Samson-like feats when enraged is one of the cooler things about the barbarian (or a cleric with the old strength domain).
|
|
Speaking as a long time barbarian player, I wouldn't mind some different types of rages. Maybe a rage all in one blow for that one monster you just gotta take down. Maybe a limited rage with less AC penalty.Here's an idea: Rage Focus feats.I wrote a number of feats like that back when I started Living Planar. You're right, it kind of needs the love, and some special options.
But yeah, Rage is great at 1st level, but nearly nobody takes Barbarian past 2nd level if they're trying to make an optimized character, as there are 10,000 ways of making the character better than through the greater and mighty rage abilities.
Yeah, but a barbarian 20 is still pretty nasty in a stand-up fight. Even moreso a barbarian 10/champion of gwynharwyf 10 (who has the improved forms of rage).