Has anyone tried Marvel Universe RPG? It came out in 2003, and it's the first RPG I played. (And I loved it)
It's badly written, but it was fun to play. Did I mention that it doesn't use dice?
I was intrigued by it certainly.
It reminded me of Nobilis, which I love, but think requires a far better GM than I to actually run it.
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I'd say, hands down, the worst HAS to be F.A.T.A.L.
I would like to attest to this, it is easily one of the most idiotic pieces of convoluted crap you can ever lay eyes on. And if you want proof, you can easily find the PDF around the internet (I know 1d4chan has one mirrored) and gaze upon its horrors.
How about games that 'should be good' but aren't. Perhaps a great writer/ designer, good art, great theme. But when it all comes together it sucks.
Robotech and about 40% of the RIFTS books.
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How about games that 'should be good' but aren't. Perhaps a great writer/ designer, good art, great theme. But when it all comes together it sucks.Robotech and about 40% of the RIFTS books.
And Nightbane - certainly not one of the worst RPGs of all time, but the background ist such a shining jewel in action-horror roleplaying but really sucked down by an awful system. (btw. it works well with the inofficial witchcraft conversion;) )
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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How about games that 'should be good' but aren't. Perhaps a great writer/ designer, good art, great theme. But when it all comes together it sucks.Robotech and about 40% of the RIFTS books.
I think the biggest weakness is the MDC/SDC wall. You end up with PCs terrified to leave their Mecha, or they can't hunt for food because all their weapons will vaporize deer. In fact, the gun in the Invid Invasion (the H-90?) benefits from an SDC/MDC switch.
Rifts actually was a little better, until you go supliment crazy. Well that and skills taking forever to build.
How about games that 'should be good' but aren't. Perhaps a great writer/ designer, good art, great theme. But when it all comes together it sucks.Robotech and about 40% of the RIFTS books.I think the biggest weakness is the MDC/SDC wall. You end up with PCs terrified to leave their Mecha, or they can't hunt for food because all their weapons will vaporize deer. In fact, the gun in the Invid Invasion (the H-90?) benefits from an SDC/MDC switch.
Rifts actually was a little better, until you go supliment crazy. Well that and skills taking forever to build.
~quickly hides my Palladium collection before the mob comes over to burn my precious books~
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~quickly hides my Palladium collection before the mob comes over to burn my precious books~How about games that 'should be good' but aren't. Perhaps a great writer/ designer, good art, great theme. But when it all comes together it sucks.Robotech and about 40% of the RIFTS books.I think the biggest weakness is the MDC/SDC wall. You end up with PCs terrified to leave their Mecha, or they can't hunt for food because all their weapons will vaporize deer. In fact, the gun in the Invid Invasion (the H-90?) benefits from an SDC/MDC switch.
Rifts actually was a little better, until you go supliment crazy. Well that and skills taking forever to build.
Looks for a good hiding space for an almost complete Rifts and complete Nightbane collection...
RIFTS was one of those games that always *sold* at the game store I hung out at/worked at. We just never saw anyone play it in the store.
Most of the buyer were 'lifetime gamers' who hit the game in the late '80s at the age of 13-15, and still play it 20 years later. They just play it at home.
~quickly hides my Palladium collection before the mob comes over to burn my precious books~How about games that 'should be good' but aren't. Perhaps a great writer/ designer, good art, great theme. But when it all comes together it sucks.Robotech and about 40% of the RIFTS books.I think the biggest weakness is the MDC/SDC wall. You end up with PCs terrified to leave their Mecha, or they can't hunt for food because all their weapons will vaporize deer. In fact, the gun in the Invid Invasion (the H-90?) benefits from an SDC/MDC switch.
Rifts actually was a little better, until you go supliment crazy. Well that and skills taking forever to build.
Dude, I've got 54 Rifts books, 6 Robotech books at least, Nightbane, at least 3 TMNT books, and Ninjas & Superspies. And Villians Unlimited. It's just like with a few tweaks, it would be SOOO GOOD. But somehow, it isn't, most of the time.
Well, the MDC / SDC wall wouldn't be so bad except everything's too damn easy to hit. Seriously, anyone who isn't literally blind or crippled has a 75% of hitting with any attack - and conversely, it's way too easy for even the lowest Mook to deal punishing damage to you - 5 or better, including bonuses, hits.
On the flip side, Dead Reign. I wanted to love that game but a) there's a genuine sense of futility to the game, b) same problem with equipment burn that RIFTS has - you run out of decent armor and ammo pretty quickly unless the GM's Santa Claus with providing it, c) it's way too damn hard to take down a zombie. Unless you have bonuses to strike, 75% of the time, you'll do no damage; aiming for the head counts at 2 attacks and you still have a 45% chance of missing. Zombies have a much easier time to hit you.
And healing takes a lot of time - days for even minor injuries. Major medical care really just isn't available.
In one instance in the DR game I was running, one flesh-eater against two heavily armed Reapers (bikers who are dedicated zombie hunters) put one in a coma and broke the other's leg before they could take it down, because they kept getting totals under 15 - a zombie has a natural Armor Rating of 15, everything below that does no damage.
So basically the second encounter of the game sidelined the whole adventure.
Quite frankly it sounds like the problem was the group. Or maybe you folks don't like Zelazny, which is okay since his style of writng wasn't for everyone.I've been in on several Amber games and sat in on others at places like GenCon. and it's one of the best things I've ever seen. But it does demand much from the players and the gamemaster... flexibility and mutual trust as well as imagination. Not to mention that reading the book itself was tour-de-force on exploring the whole concept of roleplay together.
To tell the truth, I'd actually not evaluate Amber as a system but as a frame of mind. In most games the goal is to learn the system and master it's use in terms of roleplay. In Amber the ultimate goal was to chuck the system altogether.
I'll amend my statement. In truth the only person that needed to be familliar with the Amber novels was the Gamemaster who needed to be VERY familliar. A good Amber GM can rope in a group of players that are totally ignorant of the Amber universe. (some of...
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I've played it for a decade, ran a long running campaign too. So did my wife.
I've see traditional RPGers try to play it with very negative reactions. Mostly from the lack of a randomizer. It is utterly deterministic on the part of the GM. That's tough for some traditional RPGers to cope with or appreciate.
I will concede the point about needing to read some of the novels however. Realistically, the GM needs to at the least.
One thing I did discover, is that after a prolonged Amber gaming experience, my approach to traditional RPGs really changed. I was a whole lot less 'object oriented' in my gaming, not only as a GM but as a player. Treasure is meaningless in Amber, so the focus is much more on personal goals and the GM's story and plot.
Unless I overlooked it..
There was an obscure RPG called IMMORTAL put out by Precedence Publishing.
I have mixed reactions to it. Some elements of it were really really cool, and some elements were strong White Wolf / Highlander Rip-offs.
Everybody's some kind of immortal shpeshifter, uplifted from ancient animals who got infected with a shard of a god that crashed into Earth after exiling itself from another dimension. These creatures and their adversaries have always been among us.. and so on...
The first edition had this crazy set of mechanics which might have been semi-logical, but the editing in the first edition was all but non-existant. Some cool ideas all through it, but Timecube Editing.
There was a short lived second edition that tried to redo the mechanics, but wasn't supported past the Core, and Precedence went bankrupt.
There's one guy out on the internet, by the name of Rick Don, who valiantly soldiers on to put out a 3rd edition in PDF format only.. I've looked at his work, and it's much more easy to understand. I can't speak to how good the game actually is though. You can find on the internet for free. Good sized too. I just feel bad for him because any existing fan base seems to have blown away over the years of waiting.
Was it so bad that it faded into obscurity?
Oh and my last post was serious not taking the piss btw. Amber has no random element making it completely unsuitable for those who like the excitement of including Lady Luck in determining the outcome of an action.
I took no offense Stefan. I quite agree with you on all your points. If you can't get your head around the sheer determinism of the Amber system, you'll hate it.
Actually a large number of the commnity hate traditional RPGs, because of the randomizer. Yet it has supported many Conventions larger than PaizoCon for many many years. Off two frickan rulebooks.
Though, a truthful disclaimer- I think it's dying off now.. with only two two active conventions. The Zelzany Estate is making any republication or revision of the rules very difficult.
Back to topic- some of those people hate dice passionately. What they seem t overlook is that without a randomizer, all opportunity for unexpected fanatsic success and fantastic failure is gone..
Anyway, while some consider it a terrible game, it's enjoyed quite a bit of sucess over the last twenty years. Ambercon NW in Portland actually grew last year...
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Oh and my last post was serious not taking the piss btw. Amber has no random element making it completely unsuitable for those who like the excitement of including Lady Luck in determining the outcome of an action.(1) I took no offense Stefan.
(2) Yet it has supported many Conventions larger than PaizoCon for many many years. Off two frickan rulebooks.
(3) Back to topic- some of those people hate dice passionately. What they seem t overlook is that without a randomizer, all opportunity for unexpected fanatsic success and fantastic failure is gone.
(1) Merci beau-coup.
(2) That is really cool, I've only ever played "local" and wasn't aware conventions existed using Amber. 2 Rulebooks, ah, the days before "splat".
(3) I do like "dice" games also for exactly that reason. Nothing more rewarding than the dice-gods smiling on you in the face of million to one odds. :)
Cheers,
S.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I understand that Amber as a role-playing game still has a lot of people who claim they're adherents.
But I've spoken to several of them, and the conversations generally run like this:
Me: I see you're playing Amber there.
AMBER fan: Oh, yes, Amber is a terrific role-playing game. Basically, you have to convince the referee that you can do something, rather than roll dice.
Me: I've been wondering something. You use "Stuff"?
AMBER fan: What? Well, sure.
Me: Do I understand correctly that "Stuff" is both unspent experience and a measure of how well the universe likes your character?
AMBER fan: Sure, I guess. We usually play one-off adventures at conventions, so we don't worry too much about experience points.
Me: How does "Stuff" work with the Combat System on pages 80 - 99? Let's say you have better Warfare and attack using a Revealed Opening. I assume that would deliver Level 4 or Level 5 damage. Does the opponent's Stuff affect that damage?
AMBER fan: Oh, we don't use that system. Combat is all descriptive.
Me: All right. And how do you handle magic? The number of lynchpins in a spell increases the casting time -
AMBER fan: Oh, magic is just too slow to use during combat. If you're not using Power Words, you won't be able to cast during a fight. If you could, that would make the Amber LARP a mess.
Me: You run an Amber LARP? How on earth does that work with the character generation system? Do you have fifty people involved in the Attribute Auction?
AMBER fan: Oh, no, we don't use an Attribute Auction! Those are ridiculous! If you buy 25 points in Psyche, you have Psyche 25, not Psyche 7th Rank.
Me: But how can you tell how much "Stuff" you need to accumulate to buy your next rank in an attribute? You have to match the next highest PC's score.
AMBER fan: We really don't worry about that.
Me: What about the rules for Constructs in "Shadow Knight"?
AMBER fan: The what? We don't use anything from that supplement. Mandor's Spheres are really parts of his brain that he's pulled out and shape-changed? Phlaugh!
So, it seems that everybody who's a big fan of the game, everybody who runs scenarios at AmberCon, ignores big swathes of the rules. I know that Mr. Wujcik suggested that, ultimately, GMs should feel free to ignore the rules entirely, but then you're not playing Amber; you're running a free-form gaming experience set in something like Zelazny's AMBER universe.
I say "something like" because the setting of the novels is very different from the game rules. In the Amber game, any Amberite can, at a touch, completely dominate the will of virtually anyone born out in shadow. Anyone of Dworkin's bloodline can walk the Pattern at will, as often as he pleases.
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I say "something like" because the setting of the novels is very different from the game rules. In the Amber game, any Amberite can, at a touch, completely dominate the will of virtually anyone born out in shadow. Anyone of Dworkin's bloodline can walk the Pattern at will, as often as he pleases.
In the same way that RPG's based on Star Wars, Lord of the Rings etc are "like" the books but are not the books. They provide a framework in which the GM can create stories "like" people read, not just recreate the story as written. If that was the case for LotR imagine the b*$$~ fight over who gets to be Gandalf and Aragon!
S.
I can not disagree with Chris Mortika's hypothetical conversation with an Amber player.
That's pretty much how it goes.
Bear in mind that is a generalization. A pretty damn accurate one, but you do see some variance. For example, in some rare throne wars you might see the auction pulled out and dusted off. Most people at least use the four basic stats for comparison.
However yeah, if you want to argue that they're playing the setting and not the RPG itself the evidence would be on your side. Certainly.
<shrug>
I'm not sure what that actually gets you. You win the non-debate?
They're still playing something they *think* is Amber and not another RPG.
Sorry, that was unnecessarily confrontational. My apologies.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Stefan,
I agree, that a good game ought to be able to recreate the setting and themes of its source material, while still allowing people to play new characters and establish new plotlines. My complaints with Amber isn't that it allows new stories. Rather, it doesn't allow the original stories to proceed as written, and that really is a problem.
Let me give you an example.
Amber Rank You don't bid [on an attribute] and you don't sell the attribute down. Which means you end up with an Amber-level attribute. That's great, because Amberites are so very much better than all those imps out in Shadow. ... Amber Strength makes you stronger than the Earth's strongest human.
Dominant Rank First place holders in the auction hold a very special place in the rankings. Even if they're only a point ahead, even if someone else buys up with enough points to pull even with them, they're still way out in front when it comes to any kind of contest.
All right. Now let's look at the books. Among the Princes of Amber, who's got the Dominant Rank in Strength? Gerard, says the gamebook. But in Hand of Oberon, Chapter IX,
[Gerard]dropped to one knee and reached for my throat. I moved to block his hand, but it halted in midreach. Turning my head, I saw that another hand and fallen upon Gerard's arm, was now grasping it, was holding it back.
I rolled away. When I looked up again, I saw that Ganelon had caught hold of him. Gerard jerked his arm forward, but it did not come free."
Ganelon, ostensibly a mortal from Shadow, then proceeds to beat Gerard unconscious with four blows. That's flat-out impossible in the Amber RPG. In the books, the Amberites don't think much of it. Later, Gerard asks Corwin to compliment Ganelon for him. Now, it turns out that there's a good reason Ganelon is so powerful, but that doesn't matter. The point is, the books make far less distinction between the powers of Amberites and those of folks from Shadow, than do the game mechanics. In the game, Ganelon beating Gerard ought to instantly tell everybody involved that there's something very wrong with Ganelon. In the books, the Princes accept the fact that a strong guy from Shadow can take out Gerard.
In the books, Corwin tries to deflect Bill Roth's curiosity about him; in the game, Corwin -or any other Prince of Amber- could touch Bill and rewire the man's memories as he or she pleased. The game provides rules which do a very poor job of simulating the relation between Amber and Shadow in Zelazny's books.
I can not disagree with Chris Mortika's hypothetical conversation with an Amber player.
I'm not sure what that actually gets you. You win the non-debate?
Well, the thread is about "the Most Awful RPG". I won't say that Amber is the winner in that category, but the rules, as written, are so unclear (combat) and so counterproductive (character generation) that virtually everybody who wants to play the game sets aside almost all the "crunch" of the gamebooks. That at least makes the game a contender in the category. (And no, ending the gamebook with advice to throw away the crunch doesn't get it off the hook.)
The game that people end up playing is a fun time. But it's emphatically not the game that Erick Wujcik was selling.
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Heh, I liked reading Cyborg Commando (although the rules seemed too much like Paranoia for skills and stuff), and Arduin Grimoire was always a favorite.
My vote for worst game (that I've tried, ignoring stuff like F.A.T.A.L. and World of Synnibar, which I've never experienced) would be Everway.
It was pretty, but inexplicably opaque. I felt like I was trying to play Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion, a character with many aspects, and it just didn't work for me.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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(nods) Now, see, I understand that, Set, and the 3rd party that produced the additional character cards in foil-wrapped packages obviously didn't understand the game very well, which didn't help people who were trying to get the game to work for them.
But Everway --particularly with the "Spherewalker Sourcebook"-- has been one of my favorite games. I've used it at conventions for play, because the system is so quick to learn, and because it fits so well into a particular type of genre. I've run a couple of "Myst" adventures, and, what I'e called "ground-level Amber", or Amber from a Shadow-dweller's point of view. (The irony of post placement isn't lost on me.)
I like the idea of running Moorcock's Eternal Champion setting in Everway, excepting that many of Moorcock's settings, and even more of his characters, use technology beyond the level that Everway nominally supports. I don't imagine that has to be a problem; we could treat it as a form of Air magic.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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By the way... Pattern walking isn't that casual an affair. Even most Amberites themselves won't undertake the task without a good reason. It's a strenuous task even for someone of Corwin's endurance. Those who are of merely "average" (or what passes for average Amber endurance) will falter and likely die on the Pattern if they're not in the best shape for it.
From the perspective of the novels, I agree, LazarX. When Merlin decides to try it, even Dworkin is stone-faced, believing that it'll simply kill him. Only Corwin and Merlin walk the Pattern when they don't have to, and they're both a little nuts.
But that's not the way it plays in the game. Everybody of Amber heritage with at least Amber-level Endurance can caper along the Pattern as often as they please. And they do. I've seen games where several Amberites have only one Trump: to the Pattern Room, which they use as convenient transportation to anywhere in creation.
And why not? So long as a PC hasn't used Endurance as a dump stat, the game ensures that walking the Pattern carries no danger at all, no chance of failure. (That's what you get, having a game with no chance mechanics.) I suppose the GM could simply decide, "Your character realizes that he can't make it today. He falters, steps off the path, and is consumed by the Pattern's fires. Who's your next character?"
That doesn't strike me as being either faithful to the books, nor good game design.
The ultimate Amber experience starts when you get to the point that you're chucking [the game] book entirely.
Which, I think, is reason enough to include the game on this thread. The strength of the Amber games I've seen has come from the strength of Zelazny's novels. That's great source material.
If I wrote a game based on some terrific property, let's say the "Dresden Files", and told you to set the game aside and have a great interactive session without my rules, that doesn't mean I wrote a good game. If the rules were illogical and clunky, and didn't carry the spirit of the Dresden Files at all, then I think we could agree that'd I'd written a bad game, even though there might be a lot of people running their own Dresden Files adventures, inspired to do so by buying and then pitching my rules.
Incidentally, you'd noted up above:
I've been in on several Amber games and sat in on others at places like GenCon. and it's one of the best things I've ever seen. But it does demand much from the players and the gamemaster... flexibility and mutual trust as well as imagination.
Perhaps that's true. But the game rules actively discourage that mutual trust. Everything from the Attribute Auction to the way Trumps work with Psychic combat to the repeated examples throughout the book about playstyle, show that it's the GM's job to get the PCs to not trust one another, to be antagonistic towards each other's goals and work.
It's been my experience, having played in several Amber campaigns, under some luminary GMs, that the PCs eventually all go their separate ways, since everybody can teleport to anywhere in the multiverse he pleases and communicate with everybody else at will. Sessions end up being a series of one-on-one sessions with the GM, because nobody trusts each other enough to risk leaving himself vulnerable to a companion's assault.
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I'd say 4e.. but that'd open up a hole can of worms we don't need here. :)
Not really, if that is what you think then it's what you think. I'm quite sure this thread doesn't ban the disliking of any game. Only time this becomes a problem is when some idiot argues "your" opinion is wrong.
I'd add D&D 3.5, it's the game as a DM I found the most difficult to run and most annoying when PC's reach high level. Not saying this to start anything. Just you got me thinking more contemporary rather than historical. Simple fact I far preferred to DM 2nd edition than I ever did with v3.5. As a roleplaying game should involve fun for all the parties (DM included) in my opinion v3.5 was great for my players but unfun for me as DM.
S.
I'd say 4e.. but that'd open up a hole can of worms we don't need here. :)
4E is not a BAD system. It's an easy to grasp, overall balanced system. It generally plays quickly and with few game-breaking moments (Unlike, say, Shadowrun 2nd Edition - things were either easy or literally impossible for our party).
It's just, in a lot of ways, not a very interesting system. But it's far from BAD.
I'd say, hands down, the worst HAS to be F.A.T.A.L.I would like to attest to this, it is easily one of the most idiotic pieces of convoluted crap you can ever lay eyes on. And if you want proof, you can easily find the PDF around the internet (I know 1d4chan has one mirrored) and gaze upon its horrors.
Because enough people haven't said this already this is by far the worst of the worse. IT had stats for everything (yes even for down there) and explicit rules for rape, a large number of different ways of killing, the amount of blood splatter for each attack etc.
And it had absolutely no rhyme or reason to it (probably for the best). Whenever someone goes for the "book of vile darkness" I point out they are doing it wrong... the F.A.T.A.L. game is hands down the most damaging thing to your sanity, morality, intelligence and general well being since the beginning of life.
Speaking of FATAL, there's always This review(NSFW) about it, although it's probably been linked here before. Still, when the creator's answer to people saying that the game's "Date Rape: The RPG" is to say that there's no dating in his game, the game's pretty morally reprehensible.
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Even thought I loved the feel of the game... Chivalry and Sorcerery, in my case 2nd edition. Once you had made your character you really, really felt you had "lived" his/her life. Once done however was giggle. Not for the faint of heart however. May be the character gen can be seen as both a pro and con depending on your mood?
As a game designer, I find a lot to admire in 4e.
As a game publisher, I think that cutting off a market of 2-3 million people to go after a fraction of a market of 30 million people is questionable.
D&D 4e is very well done from a game balance perspective. It is also about a tenth as much work to DM as 3.5/pathfinder is.
On the other hand, a lot of the 'character advancement' is illusionary.
As a game designer, I find a lot to admire in 4e.
As a game publisher, I think that cutting off a market of 2-3 million people to go after a fraction of a market of 30 million people is questionable.D&D 4e is very well done from a game balance perspective. It is also about a tenth as much work to DM as 3.5/pathfinder is.
On the other hand, a lot of the 'character advancement' is illusionary.
Yeah. It's not a bad game. It's just not the sort of game most of us here are looking for. But I imagine it's a lot quicker for pick-up-and-play.
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Yeah. It's not a bad game. It's just not the sort of game most of us here are looking for. But I imagine it's a lot quicker for pick-up-and-play.As a game designer, I find a lot to admire in 4e.
As a game publisher, I think that cutting off a market of 2-3 million people to go after a fraction of a market of 30 million people is questionable.D&D 4e is very well done from a game balance perspective. It is also about a tenth as much work to DM as 3.5/pathfinder is.
On the other hand, a lot of the 'character advancement' is illusionary.
Sure as having only converted to 4e in the last months. This surely isn't a bad thing from getting new people involved in role-playing (not specifically just D&D). Quick to learn, fast to play, even if you have "it's not D&D issues" you can't really put 4e in a worst category due to its less philosophical more tangible merits. Not sure about illusionary advancement? What do you mean by this? If you mean linear type "power" increase that tracks the "power" of the encounters then true - but this is no different than the fundamental ideas behind all level based RPG's and advancement.
S.
...Dogs in the vineyard seems to get about 80% hate...Wow. Really??
I love Dogs in the Vineyard. One of my favorite RPGs.
Going onto the off ramp here talking about a game I like, but I adore the game and have had some of the most memorable gaming experiences with it, then again I'm a gifted role player, I play with gifted role players, and all my GMs are rock stars from the planet SeXXXy.
Worst thing I ever played at? Modesty.
On the other hand, a lot of the 'character advancement' is illusionary.
Not sure about illusionary advancement? What do you mean by this? If you mean linear type "power" increase that tracks the "power" of the encounters then true - but this is no different than the fundamental ideas behind all level based RPG's and advancement.
S.
With 3.5/PF, characters got broader capabilities, and with the exception of blast spells, most of their lower level abilities didn't get 'replaced' at higher levels with better versions scaled up to the new encounter level.
With 4e the linear matching is much more rigorous, but if you're using to "Well, when I get 5th level spells, I change the game..." in 3.5/PF, you'll find that your kewl powerz just ain't there.
In a lot of ways, 4e makes everyone scale up roughly where the Fighter did in 3.5. Which is much much easier for game balance all around, but can cause the gripe that all character improvement is illusory as you run the ability treadmill.
As I designer, I understand why they did it. As someone who primarily plays pointy headed sociopaths and has grown to hate how the martial classes lose anything resembling relevance around 12th level in D&D/Pathfinder, I agree with it.
On the other hand, I do see the point from the people who're used to playing 'casters in 3.5/PF.
Add Gang Rape the RPG to the list.
I wish to God I was making that one up.
At least FATAL had a certain majesty to its bloated awfulness.
...the fact that something made me put a vaguely positive slant on @#$!ing FATAL speaks volumes...
I almost wonder if these games weren't made by anti-RPG groups just to have someting to point at and say -- "Look! Look! We told you those satanic RPGs promote antisocial behavior!"
I almost wonder if these games weren't made by anti-RPG groups just to have someting to point at and say -- "Look! Look! We told you those satanic RPGs promote antisocial behavior!"Add Gang Rape the RPG to the list.
I wish to God I was making that one up.
At least FATAL had a certain majesty to its bloated awfulness.
...the fact that something made me put a vaguely positive slant on @#$!ing FATAL speaks volumes...
Dang it, I knew we were getting too obvious in our attempts. Best to pull the publishing run of !@#$^$@@# & $!#$#$!@ before they get too wise ...
I almost wonder if these games weren't made by anti-RPG groups just to have someting to point at and say -- "Look! Look! We told you those satanic RPGs promote antisocial behavior!"Add Gang Rape the RPG to the list.
I wish to God I was making that one up.
At least FATAL had a certain majesty to its bloated awfulness.
...the fact that something made me put a vaguely positive slant on @#$!ing FATAL speaks volumes...
Sounds like the sort of thing the late Jack Thompson would have done.
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Dang it, I knew we were getting too obvious in our attempts. Best to pull the publishing run of !@#$^$@@# & $!#$#$!@ before they get too wise ...I almost wonder if these games weren't made by anti-RPG groups just to have someting to point at and say -- "Look! Look! We told you those satanic RPGs promote antisocial behavior!"Add Gang Rape the RPG to the list.
I wish to God I was making that one up.
At least FATAL had a certain majesty to its bloated awfulness.
...the fact that something made me put a vaguely positive slant on @#$!ing FATAL speaks volumes...
Yeh, frik'n Rocket Propelled Grenades. Get rid of all of them I say!! Here, here!
Can I join the Anti-Rocket Propelled Grenade gang too? Do I get a jacket? Will the cool kids suddenly like me? Do I have to say Anti-Rocket Propelled Grenade or can I say ARPG? Is there a secret handshake? Oh, and how do I know "satanic Rocket Propelled Grenades" from the safe non-satanic ones?
S.
Yeh, frik'n Rocket Propelled Grenades. Get rid of all of them I say!! Here, here!Can I join the Anti-Rocket Propelled Grenade gang too? Do I get a jacket? Will the cool kids suddenly like me? Do I have to say Anti-Rocket Propelled Grenade or can I say ARPG? Is there a secret handshake? Oh, and how do I know "satanic Rocket Propelled Grenades" from the safe non-satanic ones?
S.
<muttering to self>
Rocket propelled grenades? What is he talking about? hmm ... may be an easy conversion though ...</self-muttering>
Certainly friend, you can join the Anti-RPG Group! The cool kids will certainly like you, because you will be the cool kids!
We don't refer to ourselves as ARPG as that gets confused with Association of Retired People Group, and who wants to be associated with that!?!
No secret handshake, but we have many an RPG burning ... keep an eye out in the monthly newsletter.
Oh, all RPGs are satanic ... haven't you been reading your Jack Chic?
<muttering> silly noob, not reading the required material </muttering>
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No secret handshake, but we have many an RPG burning ... keep an eye out in the monthly newsletter.
I'll get onto that reading material ASAP as soon as I've posted in the other thread about annoying terms - need to post the word (if it is one) "Noob".
Er, won't the RPGs explode if we burn them? You're a member, so I guess I just need to blindly follow whatever you say, without thinking for myself (and we wouldn't want that).
S.
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[off topic]
Oh deary me...
Quotes from William Schnoebelen,
"In fact, the Dungeon Master's Guide gives the celebrated Adolph Hitler as an example of a real historical person that exhibited D&D charisma! The values contained in the game are, at the very best, "might makes right."
Er, dude this is correct. Hilter was one of the Worlds greatest orators, you don't get your country to invade half of Europe with the charisma and personality of Quasimodo. And, might does make right. Iraq would be living proof of that.
Dangerous people are about.
[/off topic]
[on topic]
Mechanics of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and Agone. Great, great, great games but both with fatal flaws in combat balance - the un-woundable Dwarf in WHFRP. Agone had a similar flaw but as you meant to be so much better than those not Inspired it didn't matter so much.
S.