Death and Dying Rules?


Alpha Playtest Feedback General Discussion


Are there death and dying rules in the book? I'm paging through it casually and don't see 'em.

For me, death at -10 for 1st-3rd level characters is great.

At 15-20th level when attacks are dealing 50+ points of damage per attack? That buffer don't mean squat.


Joe Kushner wrote:

Are there death and dying rules in the book? I'm paging through it casually and don't see 'em.

For me, death at -10 for 1st-3rd level characters is great.

At 15-20th level when attacks are dealing 50+ points of damage per attack? That buffer don't mean squat.

The Epic Level Handbook has a variant where your "death's door" equals your level (or your hit dice anyway) so that a 21st-level character wouldn die until reaching -21 hit points. I actually adopted that rule back when my characters reached 11th level so that they didn't die until -11 at that point. Now the PCs are 21st and 22nd, so they don't die until -21 and -22. It's amazing how often characters in my campaign survive because of the extra hit points in their death's door thanks to the variant rule. I wouldn't mind seeing Pathfinder RPG adopt this rule.


I have a house rule I made where you die at negative hitpoints equal to 10 + your level.

This would mean that first level characters die at -11 instead of -10 and a level 10 character dies at -20 hitpoints. I also rules that the extra hitpoints from toughness also apply to your negative hitpoints. This would mean that a level 1 character with thoughness does not die until he/she reaches -14. I felt it finally made the feat worthwhile and since it is a feat choice it's not too powerful for its cost. I would also rarely award some particularly resilient act or feat from a character by adding an extra hitpoint to his "critical hp" pool as a form of reward.

I'm a big fan of an alternative to the "ding" type of levelling where you learn a bunch of new abilities at once, so often I might slip an ability you'd normally learn next level into your skill repertoire abit ahead of time if I feel it's appropriate. Also lends it the whole "easing into your abilities" feel.

The standard "At -10 you're dead" does not scale well at all into the higher levels. Having spells, magical abilities and feats that can postpone you dying is a great thing to have and I've added it into my own homebrew campaign and so far the players seem to really enjoy them. Lets face it, even at level 10 getting 30 or so damage in a round is not something new or unexpected, so dying becomes quite easy for low hitpoint classes. I find that giving them more of a buffer from dying, while still knocking them unconscious and all is more fun than simply slaying 'em on the spot.


What I would like to see addressed is how someone who is reduced to 1 hp can still make full attacks w/ regular damage as if they were at full strength. I suppose I should chalk it up to just being part of the fantasy, but this has always bugged me.


It's because no matter how many hit points you have left, you're still just getting brused and bloodied. When that big hit does happen, that's when a vital organ is hit. That's when the 'real' damage happens. That's when no matter how much will power you bring to the game, the body fails.


Billzabub wrote:
What I would like to see addressed is how someone who is reduced to 1 hp can still make full attacks w/ regular damage as if they were at full strength. I suppose I should chalk it up to just being part of the fantasy, but this has always bugged me.

I guess that would probably because so many people insist on treating HP's as actual physical damage. It is an ABSTRACT treatment of combat. It is fatigue, it is scratches and cuts, it is superior positioning, it is gaining and losing the advantage. It is not a "death blow" until they get below 0 HP.


I usually use -(con+level)


Billzabub wrote:
What I would like to see addressed is how someone who is reduced to 1 hp can still make full attacks w/ regular damage as if they were at full strength. I suppose I should chalk it up to just being part of the fantasy, but this has always bugged me.

Me too. I employ a rule that negative hit points give you an equal penalty to any actions. Thus, -5 hp means you suffer a -5 penalty to your actions. This way, positive hit points are an indicator of how long you can go before suffering from your wounds. You die at -CON in my game and roll to stay conscious with each new injury below 0 hp. I like it and it's very simple.


We also use the CON + Level for total negative. I do like the way you added the save to stay conscious and still in the fight. Is the save FORT or WILL ? I would guess the save itself would be 10+ (maybe 15?) the total hit point loss below 0. The extra hit points by this system don't help the PC's battle (unless you add in that optional stay conscious rule) but does help prevent some deaths.


Harley Mougeot wrote:
We also use the CON + Level for total negative. I do like the way you added the save to stay conscious and still in the fight. Is the save FORT or WILL ? I would guess the save itself would be 10+ (maybe 15?) the total hit point loss below 0. The extra hit points by this system don't help the PC's battle (unless you add in that optional stay conscious rule) but does help prevent some deaths.

I use a FORT save because using a WILL save would mean wizards would stay conscious more often than a fighter. I use a DC of 10 + the total HP loss below 0, as you guessed. I really like the way it gives PCs a penalty to actions while still staying conscious. It mimics the "wounded but still standing" stuff you always see in movies or read about in books. I never liked that D&D characters don't suffer penalties before falling unconscious.

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