Rogue: frontloaded with skills

[username_unavailable]

I can see a lot of incentive to go Rogue before taking almost any other class, if only for the skill selection.

Fo example, if I create a first-level human rogue with an Int of 10, I can deck him out with nine skills. Let's say I take the following:

Acrobatics (C), Appraise (C), Craft (C), Fly (cc), Knowledge (arcana) (cc), Linguistics (C), Profession (C), and Search (C) and Spellcraft (cc).

Now I take a level of Wizard, and chose Escape Artist as my skill pick. It is a class skill because I have a level of Rogue.

Now My skill list looks like this:

Acrobatics (C), Appraise (C), Craft (C), Escape Artist (C), Fly (C), Knowledge (arcana) (C), Linguistics (C), Profession (C), and Search (C) and Spellcraft (C).

So I now have a wizard who can tumble just as well as a rogue of his level, use escape artist as well as a rogue of his level, and search for high DC traps as well as a rogue of his level. Hey if he's got an Int of at least 12, why not give him Theft as well so that he can disarm traps and open locks as well as a rogue of his wizard level.

Plus, he has the maximum possible bonus for every skill on the Wizard skill list.

Ouch!

Of course, I haven't playtested any of this yet, so maybe it will come out in the wash somehow . . .

[Polytropos]

I agree that the rogue might have too many skill points now. Back in the old days there were eight thief abilities: Climb Walls, Find/Remove Traps, Hear Noises, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Open Locks, Pick Pockets, Read Languages. Those translated into eight base thief abilities in 2nd edition and into eight skill points in 3rd. But now, the same classic skills would be covered by Climb, Linguistics, Perception, Stealth, and Theft. With Int and possibly racial modifiers, a rogue can have all the calssic abilities and still have quite a few skills to pick. This is problematic in larger groups, where skill selection allows differentiation. My wife's rogue is an acrobat, with lots of balance and jump and tumble. Her friend is the rogue classic, with the sneaking and the lock picking. If they both have Acrobatics, Stealth, and Theft, then they are both less interesting.

I recommend cutting the total skill points down just a bit. Six poitns would still allow for all the old classic skills plus one "hobby." It would also prevent bards from complaing that rogues are suddenly the better linguists.

[Frank Trollman]

I don't think any class should have different numbers of skills for being a first level character. As things currently stand, in every single game that I play which starts at level 2 or higher, my character backstory is going to be:

"[Character Name] began life as an orphan in the big city, scrounging together a life on the margins of society living by [his/her] wits on the streets of [city name]. [Character Name] was an accomplished street rat, and was noticed by [Mentor Name], who was a [Character Class]. [Character Name] followed in [his/her] footsteps, beginning to learn the trade of [Character Class]. One day, wights attacked them, killing [Mentor Name], and badly scaring [Character Name] to the very soul. Saddened greater, [Character Name] has since gone and rededicated [His/Her] life to following the teachings of [Mentor Name] in the path of [Character Class]."

I will do this because this character background gives a prospective Ranger character 2 extra skills and a prospective Wizard character six extra skills. And there's no downside, because it's all just character background.

-Frank

[Tharen the Damned]

We make the following changes:
- all PC get the same Skill points at first level. I suggest around 4.
- maybe rogue and ranger get additional points to pick up skills at first level.
- the "skill" Classes get more Skill points when they level up than the "non-skill" classes.

This would cut down on the fornt loadedness of the Rogue and help to flesh out PCs of other classes.

[Rimlar]

One could modify the new system to say you get one level added to all your class skills of the level you just gained (and half to all others on your list).

Mike