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I ask because I can't wait to throw my group into the playtesting fires. We're a large, active group of veterans and newbies who are neck-deep in Rise of the Runelords and are very happy with Paizo's decision.
If we can get sorcerer and multiclassing info by this weekend, we can start playtesting ASAP. I imagine the ratio of actual, long-term playtesting vs. theoretical testing is about 1 to 5, considering the rarity of table time among many of the posters here.
I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks Paizonites!
On the Multiclassing side there needs to be some work done, from the 3.5 rules. I mean this is a fairly new system (2e multiclassing was not even close to 3e) which hasn't really been revised since it was published almost 8 years ago. I fully support multiclassing and improving its viability in the game.
One big one I want to put forward now (if it isn't already in the new rules) is the removal of the XP penalty. The incentive of giving extra HP for taking favored class levels it good, carrots are preferable to sticks.
Another idea is to have class STACK their levels when determining the bonus they get for BAB and Saves. Take Fighter 2/ Barbarian 1/ Ranger 1 and it goes to: +4 Fort, +3 Ref, +1 Will. As apposed to +7, +3, +0. All three have good Fort saves with a combined level of 4 (which gets that +4). Only one has a good Reflex save for +2, but the others combined levels bad Ref save adds +1. This would help deal with very strange saves that result from taking multiple classes and prestige. Same goes for the BAB when classes like Rogues transition into Rogue based prestige classes, you won't accidentally miss BAB increase.
Other areas of multiclassing that need work are advancing class abilities. While there are many examples of class that link well together (often brokenly well) there are others that don't. Feats would seem to be the way to go there.
Skills and multiclassing creates calculation complexities in the 3e skill system and is an issue in purposed system.
Prestige classes are different issue. They should have stayed DM campaign tools and not ballooned into character customization they way they did.
How about adding in a 'dual-classing' element (harkening back to 1e) instead of (or in addition to) multiclassing as it is now?
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Another idea is to have class STACK their levels when determining the bonus they get for BAB and Saves. Take Fighter 2/ Barbarian 1/ Ranger 1 and it goes to: +4 Fort, +3 Ref, +1 Will. As apposed to +7, +3, +0. All three have good Fort saves with a combined level of 4 (which gets that +4). Only one has a good Reflex save for +2, but the others combined levels bad Ref save adds +1. This would help deal with very strange saves that result from taking multiple classes and prestige. Same goes for the BAB when classes like Rogues transition into Rogue based prestige classes, you won't accidentally miss BAB increase.
For my part, I think getting somewhat suboptimal BABs & saves is the price to pay for the superior versatility obtained from builds using multiple classes & PrCs. Those builds, let's face it, are often more a question of optimization than anything else. Sticking to your base class has got to have some advantages, doesn't it?
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I think that multiclassing could be 'fixed' by a few small tweaks ...
1) Create a rule that the BAB of a multicassed character cannot be any less than half his level. That way, a Wizard 1 / Rogue 1 would have a minimum BAB of +1 rather than 0.
2) Leave saves alone - it's not broken, and it makes a vague sort of sense that a character to has diversified their interests have good saves.
3) Create a feat -- let's call it "Diverse Training". Any character who takes this feat may choose a class, and consider it increased by an additional 50%, rounded down, to a maximum of the character's total level -2.
So, a character who is a Wizard 5 / Fighter 10 could choose Diverse Training (Wizard), and be considered a 7th level Wizard for the purposes of spell selection and class benefits such as familiar abilities.
Likewise, the same character could take Diverse Training (fighter), and be considered a 13th level fighter for class abilities (like Weapon Training or Armor Training). However, you would have to say that bonus feats granted by a class cannot be gained by Diverse Training, otherwise in the case of a fighter, you spend a feat to gain several -- not fair.
That would solve your gish problems, and make multiclassing more effective.
How about adding in a 'dual-classing' element (harkening back to 1e) instead of (or in addition to) multiclassing as it is now?Please no
It could be a way to have recurring characters carry over from one AP to the next, rather than (comparatively) continuing to generate new characters every AP start, is all I am suggesting.
Another idea is to have class STACK their levels when determining the bonus they get for BAB and Saves. Take Fighter 2/ Barbarian 1/ Ranger 1 and it goes to: +4 Fort, +3 Ref, +1 Will. As apposed to +7, +3, +0. All three have good Fort saves with a combined level of 4 (which gets that +4). Only one has a good Reflex save for +2, but the others combined levels bad Ref save adds +1. This would help deal with very strange saves that result from taking multiple classes and prestige. Same goes for the BAB when classes like Rogues transition into Rogue based prestige classes, you won't accidentally miss BAB increase.For my part, I think getting somewhat suboptimal BABs & saves is the price to pay for the superior versatility obtained from builds using multiple classes & PrCs. Those builds, let's face it, are often more a question of optimization than anything else. Sticking to your base class has got to have some advantages, doesn't it?
I've had to implement a house-rule flat-capping base saves at +12 to reduce the generally massive increase in base saves multi-classing brings to play. A 1 or 2 point hit to BAB is often considered worth a +4 increase in one (or often more) base saving throws from what I've seen.
Prestige classes are different issue. They should have stayed DM campaign tools and not ballooned into character customization they way they did.
Personally, I hope Paizo does away with prestige classes all-together. The state they are in nowadays has nothing to do with prestige and everything to do tweaking out characters' game-breaking power levels. If prestige classes stay in the game, they should be something the DM bestows upon a player, not something a player just chooses to enter whenever he qualifies for it.
Ranger 10/Bard 10, this surprising successful Multiclass ends with +10 Fort, +14 Ref, +10 Will. In other cases a character will have an insanely high single(or double) save and pathetically low ones for their level. They aren't just sub-optimal they are totally skewed in relation a single classed character. Multiclassed characters already *pay* for their flexibility with weaker class abilities (again not counting PrCs).
Simply stacking the levels of class with the same progressions is easy and quick, and should have a minimal impact on most pre-published material. It also keeps multiclass on track with single class progressions.
The reason for sticking to a single class should be those mid and high level abilities. Under 3.5 the Casters (Clerics, Wizards, Druids, Sorcerers) present the clearest examples of classes you should stick to for 20 levels. Again ignoring PrCs which for some insane reason give casters a pass on their primary class ability.
Speaking of PrCs look at the interaction between the Archmage and the Wizard. A 20th level wizard gets +10 +6 +6 +12, while the Wizard 15/Archmage 5 gets +9 +6 +6 +13. Not to bad but why should the Archmage be a weaker combatant then the full Wizard, have full casting, and a slightly better will save? The Archmage supposedly *paid* for access to its abilities with the perquisites (and the levels spend in the class). Add another 5 level caster PrC, just imagine it not for optimization purposes but to fit the concept of a magic manipulator. This would end with +9 +5 +5 +15.
Those are final results. In practice you get savings throws that do the oddest progressions. You may run five or six levels with a flat save and then have it jump two or four points in half that leveling, back up to where it should have been. To see that kind of stutter in a very clear example look at a Wizard/Sorcerer (talk about sub-optimal), and keep the progression in both classes even as you level.