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Sorry if I'm rehashing anything that was written before, but there is a lot of posts here to read through; I had discussed some thoughts on the "Half-Orc p6" discussion on half-orcs (and dwarves), and then saw this thread.
Some thoughts:
- I side with the "no Cha penalty" camp; I don't believe any of the core races really are flavour-wise lacking a forceful personality, and considering that it's the renowned "dump stat" if you don't need it ... why make it worse (I know that's metagaming, but there is ample discussion why flavour-wise it should be avoided)
- I like the idea of Dwarves having a Dexterity penalty instead of their Charisma penalty; they are borne from stone, after all!
- I especially liked half-orcs dropping their Charsima penalty; as much as I like them having a Wisdom bonus, I could also accept a "roving" bonus in a stat the player chooses (was suggested on the other thread), which could also allow for intelligent half-orc mages
- I really think that racial feats are a good way to go; I have taken advantage of the "racial paragon" classes from the Unearthed Arcana, and think that having feats that players could select at higher levels to enhance their racial selection would be a good solution to making race a bigger game mechanic difference throughout adventuring. These feats may enhance racial abilities (ie: additional cantrips available to gnomes), be geared towards their favoured class (such as elves having secret arcana available to wizards), or provide benefits along a "theme" that coincides with their favoured class (for instance, an elven ranger may be able to select one wizard spell that they can cast despite not being a wizard).
- Other good options are having race-specific Prestige Classes (such as "Elven High Mage") which would build upon the race/class combination.
Skyscraper my retort to your comments
And on that note if you were to get two pysical ability bonus to one race with a metal draw back you would doom that race forever to being a combat only race.
As things stand (pathfinder not 3.5) you could have a half orc wizard whoms focus is on using spells that encrease his own strenth or a varity of other things but if you gave them that I think it would be even worse than wisdom.
But as for wisdom when I was introducing wisdom as an ability to some people who didn't understand it I said this
"Well a charater with low wisdom but high intellgence looks at the giant and says a towering hulk of muscle and raw power however he has many weakness all of which i will use to my advantage and then vitory.
Where as the high wisdom low intellgence guy says His huge and will crush us, lets run"
Wile the stats are not nearly that simple I can see a half orc having a nack for knowing when to leave, when his not wanted but not so much the why.
Also with dwarfs I think they have always been presented as a wise race, I don't think being stubborn is nessarily the trait of an unwise person.
But I remeber reading a wizards splat book and I remeber a quote in which went something like this "Fire Ten thousand arrows rather than lose a single friend" I don't know about you but that seems like wisdom to me.
Also there long lived with a low brith rate and an seens of communtiy to the warzo that has to breed wisdom.
Anywho just my thoughts
I love the Idea of having racial traits it makes people more of a charater and it give people a more viseral sense of what there charater is.
Here is what I am doing in my campagin however I don't know if it is balance or even playable but hey thats up to you right?
I give every Core Race a racial ability as well as one for there sub race.
Here is an example for elf
If they do they make a reflex save equal to the ammount of damage delt adding there level to the reflex roll, if they pass they take half damage, if they pass by five or more they take no damage and if they pass by ten or more they recive a free attack of oppertunity against the attacker
Anywho this is what I am doing when it comes time for the ability bonus charater in my campagin my instead elect to choose a racial feat.
This way standered feats can be spend on the progression of the class as is standered but you still get a feel for your race.
But this is the steal my hook part.
I am doing it so that there is is six different paths that don't class to go down.
First feats that progress the core race abilities, second that progress sub race abilities and third through to sixith is the different takes a race and/or as subrace would have on the four different themes of charaters (Ie Warrior, Arcane, Divine and Adventure or Tank, Spellsliger, Skill monkey and Healer)
For example An Elven Warrior is more likely to be lithe and graceful, they make there hits matter where as a Dwarven Warrior is more likely to be waging a war of artition with the opponent which they are desetend to win.
This way it presents a way that races and classes mix regardless of if there the favoured one or not.
But anywho that is my thoughts.
P.S. Yeah charaisma is a bit of a dump stat for alot of players.
But I don't think force of personaility is all there is to charisma.
Take a look at some models they have the personaility of a stick but still thats charaisma having the ability to command the room regardless of weather is through personaility or not.
INTRODUCTION: The target of this post and its surgeons is to give a first feedback of the trials and the comments of my RPG (players and GM) community about the Paizo project “PRPG”.
Just because it can make sense (or not) for the reader, here are our “stats”. We are about 30 French guys & girls:
- 5 of us are 43 and more and play since 1980
- 12 of us are 28 an more and play since 1990
- 11 of us are from 13 to 20 and play since 2003 - 2006
Everybody played at least 30 times in D&D 3.5 rules and we are 6 to DMing it currently. Also most of us have played a lot of different RPG games from Runequest / ODD / Call of Chtulu to WoW & Warhammer.
On each feedback we will try to focus on a very small window of the trial / comments. Always, the revision of the rules set will be stated plus some relevant mention to chapters, ands so on. We also will verbatim Jason most meaningful sentences in regard of the trial and discussion done. We will not try to argue for or against. I will harshly give the score as: YES – NO – BOF (a French term expressing lack of interest or enthusiasm). Then, when useful and available, an alternative proposal discussed in between us and seeming interesting will be reported.
I don’t know if our efforts will last for a long time and if I will be able to post regularly and about the whole think… But at least we will try to pay our coin to this great challenge of Paizo.
The Races / Favoured Classes in ALPHA rev 1.1
Action = read the first pages of the rules and start generating characters of any race at level 1
”I wanted to make sure that it stayed true to the original vision of the game.”
- About all Races: adding + 2 for one more ability = NO
- Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. = NO
- Unnatural Beauty of elves = NO
- Orc Ferocity = BOF
“I wanted the Pathfinder RPG to clean up these rules, by streamlining in places …”
- About Keen Senses for Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-elves and Halflings = YES
- Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Appraise skill checks made to identify the properties of magic items. = YES
- Half-Elves Adaptability = YES
- About all Races Favoured Class = BOF
This last one ask for a comment. Indeed no changes have been done by PRPG here but a lot of us (during feed-back) came with it needs to be. The core idea is that the Favoured Class linked to XP reward is just an old nasty idea to make the life harder for DM and its players. It should make a lot of more sense (from our discussion group) if Favoured Class is heavily connected to the races + classes archetypes.
So…
- Giving 1 HP bonus for any level a race spend in its Favoured Class = YES
…and we propose to drop all the other rules about favoured and XP.
But we thought that Human and Half-Elves should be more versatile in their choice (adaptability) an then we came with one list of favoured classes for them. They have not to choose one but rather to consider each of them at favoured. It means more possibility for HP bonus for the two races and it balances the lack of boost in their abilities.
- Half-Elves favoured list = Fighter, Rogue, Druid, Ranger and Sorcerer
- Human favoured list = Fighter, Cleric, Barbarian, Monk, Paladin
FIRST GENERAL NOTE ABOUT CLASSES:
“Far too many of the basic classes lose their lustre after just a few levels, leading most players to take a host of other classes or a number of prestige classes.”
To improve the interest of the core classes and to limit the min-maxing plague we have also start to discuss that:
- Only the four core classes can be multi-classed at will
- The seven other main classes can only be mixed once and only with one of the core four
- All the PC prestige classes can be added only to a single class, starting not before level 11, and must be then followed to the end.
These ideas are especially sounded (IOHO) when applied with the favoured class modification.
Our next post will be focused in Classes trial and comments.
Be creative
Sorry if I'm rehashing anything that was written before, but there is a lot of posts here to read through; I had discussed some thoughts on the "Half-Orc p6" discussion on half-orcs (and dwarves), and then saw this thread.
Some thoughts:
- I side with the "no Cha penalty" camp; I don't believe any of the core races really are flavour-wise lacking a forceful personality, and considering that it's the renowned "dump stat" if you don't need it ... why make it worse (I know that's metagaming, but there is ample discussion why flavour-wise it should be avoided)
- I like the idea of Dwarves having a Dexterity penalty instead of their Charisma penalty; they are borne from stone, after all!
- I especially liked half-orcs dropping their Charsima penalty; as much as I like them having a Wisdom bonus, I could also accept a "roving" bonus in a stat the player chooses (was suggested on the other thread), which could also allow for intelligent half-orc mages
Agreed. Down with CHA penalties to the core races!