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![]() Seldriss wrote:
When you have a lot of background stuff (town descriptions, history, pantheons and so on) the players like to refer to this all along a campaign. Thus, it is worth to propose it in their native tongue. It is also useful when you are DMing an e-game.Be sure in my 27 years long career I never read anything - neither in english, french nor in sylvan - to my players but only the very speeches I needed sometimes for famous NPCs. Be creative ![]()
![]() delvesdeep wrote:
Hey Delves, It’s good to see the old guard is still wandering here time to time ;-) Man, even with two legs I had far too many asses to kick the last three years. As a result my two parties are one arriving Vaprak’s Voice and the other in the middle of the Redgorge Siege (before Smoking Eye). But at the end of the day, after more than 70 game sessions of five hours for each group it is definitely our best campaign ever – for the last 25 years.
Shattertorn
Asylum
I hope something above can feed your talent, if you need it :-p Be creative ![]()
![]() Mattastrophic wrote:
At the end of the day, the issue of a too high difference in between the BAB of a T20 (+ equipment & all) and the one of a F20 (and the consequences given by the OP) is IMHO of the very same kind that the F1’s BAB compare to F20’s BAB. But nobody complains about that (or only a few). Why ?Because D&D is a level based game and every body comply with it. One obvious solution to fix the OP issue is not only to run groups of PC of same (equivalent) level but also with only one same class. :-p
Quite a long introduction to explain that the “True Problem” is not in the system but in the human factor i.e: the players and the DM.
Now the problem is coming because most of the awaited events – especially by the new generation of MMORPG brain washed PC – are combat ones. At that point, I can agree with you that if we have BABs in a wide range because of very different bonuses then the DM fall in trouble.
Rather to first try to fix BAB bonuses, my experience led me to corner the AC definition first. I have cut the AC in two pieces – a lot of such house / alternate rules can be found – one is reflecting the active defensive ability and the other the passive one (this last one is armour).
That rule (with its implementation done by changing the BAB current tables) allows a decrease in the differences in between the bonuses that are at the root of the concern raised by the PO and is still very compatible and easy to implement. If I find some time in the future I will try to come back with the details. Be creative ![]()
![]() Rhavin wrote:
I have exactly the same feeling too. Thanks for your comment. I move forward a little bit more my crusade for Simplicity in violating a sacred D&D taboo: … the AC.
The new AC (nAC) definition It is a not rolled save and so consider it at 10. To that 10 are added:
Note: all the spells, effects, modifiers which apply to Reflexes will also apply on nAC by design. It is worth to recall a nAC is a Saving-Throw type thing here. The limits (in DEX) which can affect Reflexes Save because of the armour will also be detrimental to the nAC. Each enhancement to a shield is a direct enhancement to nAC. As usual bonuses coming from a same type of effect don’t stack. The new DR (nDR) definition To take care of the passive defence we define the nDR – please note that nDR is not supposed to be compatible with the actual DR / …. of the 3.5 Ed.
Note: All the enhancement to an armour give a 1 for 1 nDR bonus. For conversion purpose and compatibility with weapon damages it is worth to calculate the nDR of any armour like halve (rounded up) of the AC bonus given by 3.5 Ed. – I fully catch that it means we have always two armours with same nDR but I think the differences in between armours can also be implemented thanks to other factors than nDR.
Conversion and Compatibility Compatibility with the 3.5 can only come from a conversion. Luckily is quite a basic process to do. The main stream is:
What about the 3.5 Ed DR ?
Side note: A very important rule to implement with the nDR is that the critical roll always goes through it. It gives a streamlined and natural rule for critical hit. You have no longer to confirm your critical. If it’s a critical but not a hit then you dont take care of the nDR and deal with regular damages, if it is a critical and a hit then you apply the critical effect on damage and don't consider the nDR. I hope some of you are still with me and find some interesting ideas here. Your feed back is welcome guys. I have put together my posts of this thread which are dealing with alternate rules to streamline a 3.x D&D IMHO. I have also corrected some flaws and typos to make it clearer.
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![]() I have put together my posts of this thread which are dealing with alternate rules to streamline a 3.x D&D IMHO. I have also corrected some flaws and typos to make it clearer.
It looks like not a lot of you have made some comment on that stuff... Is something wrong about sharing that kind of ideas here ? Be creative ![]()
![]() In this post I complete the simplified “Acting“ rules description I started in another post above. Surprise!
The mix of Initiative & Acting presented before is useful to track the rounds and the actions in a very simple way. It will be even better if you prepare the initiative chart(s) before the game. It is now possible because we don’t have to bother with Initiative roll and delayed / readied action.
Be creative. ![]()
![]() Ernest Mueller wrote:
Ernest, it sounds like you understand and share my aim at a point. I don’t want to bring decadence in D&D but to see it be revived in a better shape than before. Don’t hesitate to share more ideas about simplicity of that kind inside this thread. By the way I’ve linkified your web address here:microlite20-beauty-in-terseness jdh417 wrote:
I’m quite more sold to that thought. If not, Paizo efforts in PFRPG will be irrelevant. It is even true for any kind of rules they would publish: if they don’t improve the sales of their other Pathfinder products by it that is a flop IMHO. Two of you addresses linkified jdh417:Basic Fantasy OSRIC To be clear, I don'tpromote or even think/pretend these alternate rules proposed by Ernest and jdh417 are the aim I ask for in my plea. However, this efforts show how it is sounded to work for an PFRPG as efficient in Simplicity than in other ways. Be creative ![]()
![]() Quite a long one that time. I hope you will follow my flag guys ! About Acting in combat… : Three different groups for the actions: Proactive, Reactive or Reflex.
Rule:
Only few situations and effects are able to change the standard acting rule:
Few actions are considered free and thus don’t count for the limited number of acting actions. They are the one given by the 3.5 OGL chart of free actions. The use of some feat or a sounded procedure allows changing an action in a free action (quick reload, belt for wands and so on…). The system to combine your move actions and your other actions is quite simple. You can always insert one action (or more if you are allowed to by special powers) at every step of your move and then try to finish your move. In some case your opponent can stop you through a sounded Reactive action (if he had). Usually neither an attack in a Reactive action on an Active move nor the reverse stop the move. Now if you consider the above rule with care I think it’s possible to demonstrate it is no more needed to implement the attack of opportunity system. Without it I guess you get however a cinematic system of combat which will pose a threat against the attempt of every action if in the (extended) range of the opponent. Please note that it is also much more instinctive to rule the active and reactive phase IMHO.
Just below I give the list of the actions like the srd.org gives it and I comment and suggest some equivalence. But because it’s a little bit long I hide it behind the following gadget. Spoiler:
Attack is a Pro or Rea action You cannot use it more than once in a round as Pro action in this regular rule without having a special ability, feat or multiple attacks – side note: iterative attacks rule will be changed as a feat related thing explained in a next post. You can never use Attack more than once in a round as Rea action but if you have multiples attacks you can use them all. Not that in Rea mode your bonuses are halved.
Melee Attacks 1 Pro or Rea
Cast a Spell x Pro or Rea, some spells can take more than 1 action
Activate Magic Item x Pro or Rea, some activation can take more than 1 action
Use Special Ability 1+ Pro or Rea
Start/Complete Full-Round Action is no more useful Move Actions 1+ Pro or Rea
Full Attack is no more useful
Drop an Item 0 free
I hope most of you will catch the gist of this system and how it brings streamlining-simplicity in the combat sequence. It is the result what I expect to get IMO. Also it should be quite compatible with all the stuff but some feats and the attack of opportunity. Plus, I bet that it allows a good not boring and not gimped game. Thank you for your patience and attention. Thoughts ? Be creative ![]()
![]() Stephen Klauk wrote:
Ok I'm sold ! You get a Padawan and one faithful forever. Mosaic wrote:
I started recently to feed the box with ideas of that kind here. (check bottom of the thread - but I'm the OP and I will be glad if you are interested in the whole argumentation.) By the way Mosaic, did you get we are twins ? Be creative ![]()
![]() Ridolfin wrote:
Wellll ! I have to start by something and I propose Initiative Check. This is by the rules a dexterity check. Means we have to roll the dices once at the beginning of each combat sequence. So 6 players and say 4 monsters give 10 rolls just to determine an order of actions. Plus, sadly, a bad roll will put the quicksilver hero at the bottom of the pile for his epic entrance in the fight. Also, it demands to each player and the DM to find a modifier score on a sheet and to proceed in writing the plot chart for each new fight of the session. Not often a great moment of Role Play IMHO.So:
Thoughts ? Be creative ![]()
![]() Arnwyn wrote:
I’m not sure at all – I tried and I am not a strong believer they are so good. Plus, if these systems are really a very good improvement how can you explain they are not more supported or played ? For me they are not the very answer to my needs.Arnwyn wrote:
Really, of all surviving D&D supporters, which ones will not pray to have a more brilliant, efficient and still flavored game to take over from 3.5 Ed as its true heir ? Are we dreaming of a more complicated, more elitist and eventually hard to (role) play system ? Paul Ackerman 70 wrote:
I am DMing with various players (currently almost twenty – but not all together ;-)). It is obvious that some players or groups are more or less good in role play. But with the ten guys witch are definitely great at role play – and with whom I play for at least ten years or more – we have definitely noticed RP was down with the later editions. jdh417 wrote: Agreed. A good game is all about the group. The question is "Do the rules support your group's type of play or get in the way of it?" It’s a good answer and I can endorse it with a lot of gratefulness – It prevents me from a longer typing session in this so beautiful William’s language. jdh417 wrote: Thanks Ridolfin for bringing this topic up again. You are more than welcome ! Thank you to you jdh147. roguerouge wrote:
It was great ! … and tiring. Thank you. Now my battery is full again. God, I love this game despite its painful current rules. DeadDMWalking wrote:
I got your points DeadDM and I almost agree some PFRPG changes like skills rules are good but perhaps can be a little bit better. I will try to argue for it after I got some time to organize my thoughts. I also agree the Combat Feats are not so nice, but I’m not checking its compatibility when I come to that feeling. And I’m not sure I am so well pleased by all the changes in the Races and Classes in regards of Simplicity. Few are ok, some are not ok at all IMHO. Also the reasons of balance / restoration of interest in core classes and so on are just not hitting me at all. Combat Maneuvers is for sure a good move I like too… …. By the way, in answering here it comes to my mind that the SirUrza’s advice was very wise. Even if I want to stay general, the only way to give flesh to my thoughts and to offer you some grasp on them is to enter the arena and fight with the beast. Plus, it is a better aim in trying to help rather than just complaining ! Now, it’s no more time for a PLEA, it’s time for a CRUSADE ! So I will try to post in that thread some cases where I think the simplicity of the game should improve and how I imagine it. However, I am not a game designer as already stated. I am quite sure some flaws and mistakes will sparse my posts. I ask your commiseration in advance guys.
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![]() roguerouge wrote:
I apologize if I did. It was indeed a reference to a quite humoristic exchange SirUrza , Sebastian and few others had in this thread. I am not a native speaker and my attempt to be funny was perhaps a flop. Sorry againI posted in this "GENERAL" section of the messageborads just to stay evasive and not focused. So I want to avoid to point out a list of topics here or there. I have to go to play as every Saturday . Bye Be creative ![]()
![]() SirUrza wrote: If certain rules are too complicated, perhaps it'd be better to state which ones you think should be made simpler (in the appropriate forums below) instead of a blanket statement that doesn't help them make things simpler and better? SirUrza, I have posted few things. I have a very busy schedule as explained above. Plus, I have to acknowledge I’m a lazy guy. ;-) I don’t think I can help so much in design. I can’t pretend to be creative in that type of matters I’m afraid. That is the job of the experts. I’m quite sure Jason and its friends are much more capable of me to determine how to win the day with their baby in a direction of simplicity. I will give some comments in appropriate threads if I can but it is not a commitment.Don’t beat me, Troll. And don’t jack that pitiful thread, please. Serious now ! We are five “simplified” by now and my plan for a bridge session is nuked. If you join we can be six for a poker ?
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![]() Pathos wrote: OP... be careful of what you wish for. WotC's decision for simplifying and streamlining the rule stystem is what they went for, and this is what they got... Remember that the DM is a storyteller first. If the system takes from the DM something that has such significant impact on the story that it... Hey ! I never plead for a system where the DM is around the table with the players ! I don’t know at all the 4E – but I will check that one if I find a way to fight my phobia of that WotC site one day. Simplicity is definitely not a synonym of stupidity, at least in my mother tongue. May be I am not aware of and odd sense of “simplicity” in English ? Again, I don’t want to gimp the game I want to see it improved as THE epic role playing essential reference worth it. Are you in – we are searching a number four for a bridge ? ;-) Be creative ![]()
![]() jdh417 wrote:
0gre wrote:
So – perhaps – I’m not dumb ? Thank you for the post JDH. And yes, Ogre, to be alone during a too long time and brooding over the same thoughts is not good. It tends to make the old guy a little bit too talkative, especially when he didn’t expect to be heard ;-)) What…, two echoes. I’m not a legend then. ;-p Be creative ![]()
![]() Montalve wrote:
Thank for your post too Montalve. I ‘m not willing to defend the AD&D 2nd Edition - I’ve not played that one so much indeed. I just would like to know if the gamers around me and myself also are the last ones in the D&D community who think an improvement is not always another one hundred pages book of rules and options to fix something or to avoid players to be bored by a more than one year old class or feat. Besides, I just made a poll with some old friends, after 28 years in the game with weekly sessions each of us has hardly played more than twenty or so different classes – but with multiclassing however.
I think that example says something to each of us and I let the readers draw their own conclusion. I will definitely give its chance to PFRPG, but as said in my previous post here, I’m not more a nice guy and the current things in Alpha let me frustrated. I’m old (or too old to my taste at least) and my time flees so I need efficiency. They can do it. They are the best at their job. But do we want it ? Be creative ![]()
![]() Pax Veritas wrote: I am in 100% support of the move Erik has made with Lisa's support and Jason's hard work. And so do I. Really. I realize I used the word “restore” in my OP which is not so accurate. What I want to express is more to “regenerate” or to “redesign from a green field” a rules set.Pax Veritas wrote: But allow me to acknowledge your feelings about complexity and the fatigue associated with honoring the complex, but sophisticated, 3.5 rule set… I very like you post PAX and I will certainly enjoy playing with you regarding what you wrote. You know, my heavier concern is not for me or my more “brilliant” players but for the game itself – even if I’m so tired sometimes. As you stated, it becomes longer and longer to prepare a session. Also it becomes heavier and heavier to check, calculate and adjudicate all the situations that came in play (or even out when prepping).
Spoiler:
I’ve never been creative in applying or using the rules for D&D or whatever game and I can’t imagine how to do it, even if some of the posters argue the opposite. So now, the rules I want must be brilliant, faster, better and a real breakthrough when needed. They should allow me to save 4 or 5 more hours adventure prepping a week. They also have to add a real neat 50% true role playing a session compare to the 3.5 Ed. And also they shall be playable with a minimum training time of saying 4- 5 hours both for the nerd or the housewife. Ok, it looks a dream but if Paizo cannot try it, who will ? I don’t care so much of 3.5 and compatibility issue at the end of the day. If some nice stuff from 3.5 can be save as a side effect, that’s fine and great, but if to save the elder you cripple the young I’m afraid you don’t prepare for a long future. Hope I made my thoughts clearer. Be creative ![]()
![]() Orion Anderson wrote: Agreed that we need to keep rules simple but functional, but can we do that without endorsing, or ideally without mentioning prostitution? Thanks. Sorry for this akward image. It has never been in my intention to endorse prostitution but I know it exists. Pneumonica wrote:
I’m not asking for any back move to the old rules. I’m asking to take the best witch balance flavour of role play and playability and simplicity – in that order. I don’t think 3.5 is a paramount achievement. It fixed things but not always with a so great performance in regard of simplicity. Have you recently played with a 8 gamers table at 8th or 10th level – Trust me it’s a real challenge.Seldriss wrote:
No I don’t say that. And I also agree the player want something to eat and to play with tactically. But do you agree that a group role play experience can be very impacted by meta gaming and power gaming. The reverse: it is (almost) always possible in D&D to have power gamers and meta gamers finding their way to enjoy, even if you don’t give a lot of beef to them.To take it short, IMHO, role play is frail and overruling-metagaming is resilient. If you give too much to the second you are quite sure to nuke the first one - or almost. DitheringFool wrote: Paizo, designs, develops, and sells games for a living - I think they know what they are doing and what is at stake. I'm sure they are the good guys. I’m not willing to give any lesson to anybody but just asking a question without any aggressiveness and condescension. By the way do you have an opinion about the other 99% of my post ?Be creative ![]()
![]() My Grand-Father said me:
I would like to express my worries and my frustrations about where is arrived D&D after thirty years. The aim of this post is simple and unachievable: to give a voice on this messageboards to the ideas of plenty of gamers (players and GM) who will never participate to our experts’ arena. But, because these people are around me the silent majority of our hobby and because in the newcomers they will be essential for the future of the game, we need to take care of them more than of ourselves. Of course, the OD&D rules had to be improved along the time. But, why have the designers generate at the end of the day the hyper complicated logical code called 3.5 ? Today, thousand of posts in this messageboards are just a race in the direction of more that, or more for this one (class, race, power, feat,…), or more mechanism of that kind and so on. I’m lost ! Frankly speaking, I love D&D and I’m faithful to it for almost thirty years. IMO, its strength, its essence and its sex appeal are coming from the epic origin which his the kernel of that universe. Somewhere in the past the rules seemed simpler and also non invasive and whatever the holes they had it was never a point difficult to deal with. That is no more true.
When I read Paizo will try to move on an alternative to 4E, I placed a lot of hope in it. This team is by far the best for keeping this epic fire burning in our game. They have splendid story tellers, designers, editors, publisher and artists. So I imagined they will have the aim to restore some rule set which will help in finding back the not so old spirit rather than to mimic painfully the clichés and effects of the MMORPG or other video games. I am now thinking I was wrong and that this direction of the road is closed, perhaps forever. I will now give the example of our game circle. We have many players and we have always enjoyed D&D adventures with 6 to up to 10 players. Now, IMHO, it is a little bit sad to say that most of the modules are designed for only four. The game and the players wasted away I guess. But does it mean that tomorrow we will have rules only for two + one referee – like my wargamers’ buddies ? Or worse, will we be in the future alone in front of a screen ! I can’t let it happen without rising up against that fate. Even with 3.5, the Dming of a good session with 6-10 players is an intellectual and even a physical trial. I know that because I did it every week during the last five years. But now, I’m exhausted and fed up by all that poor task, from within the grace of a good role play is hardly touched. I have house ruled a lot to simplify, but the more I work the more the designers push the ball. When reaching high levels, on a table of 6-10 I have players bored by the overwhelming rules and meta gamers who crawl in their sin with delectation and conceit. I’m afraid PFRPG will just push me a little bit more on the edge of the abyss and with me a lot of gamers who prays in silence. Jason, Erik, Lisa are you sure of your move ? Fellow DMs your support or even your slaps are welcome to revive an old (perhaps) alone but (certainly) experienced gamer.
Be easy (and creative) ![]()
![]() raidou wrote: This is going to be a long post. If weapon vs. armor type tables make you want to gouge your eyes out, you may want to self-medicate before continuing. Ok. I like what you are doing here. It brings rules AND flavor in being armored or not and how. Also it stays simple and practical. Thank you to share it. I will come back later if I find some good ideas who can enhance your stuff. But it is quite already neat. Be creative ![]()
![]() Tarinor wrote:
And what about your four 15th level fighters ? They can be also a little bit much that stupid cows ? Spoiler:
I'm not willing to start any discussion but my friends will be very happy to know they are not able to play correctly their arcanists after 30+ years in the RP games.
Next time I will throw on one of them four 15th level bowmens with +2/+4 magic composite longbow and 4 adamantine arrows each. If he's not able to survive he will be pleased to know the challenge of dealing with a possible 1d8+8 by 16 attacks = 256 damages in the first round was fair. It was not my intention to bait you but just to point out that, depending of a lot of parameters, and yes, also of the DM will and experience, a wizard is not always a super super hero and a fighter a super super lamer. And even when playing the 3.5 core rules (I don't care of prestige classes here). Let's roll the thread. Be creative ![]()
![]() piers wrote:
I'm in for the racial bonus (Max HP at 1st + bonus) but nerfed to not unbalance the race choice. Spoiler:
For the Racial proposal, the discussion was strong with friends. The flaw is about the heavy boost proposed and the original taste of the game to preserve. At the end we will be very much pleased if the bonuses are:
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![]() Tarinor wrote:
This type of things never happened to me in years of play. IMHO a Wizard is almost a Dead man walking when left alone in a battleground of its level and with no option to flee. A well equipped band of fighters was the fate of many arcanists in our stories. For sure in a one to one arena combat you can imagine a lot of trouble for the fighter in a mano a mano with a wizard. But, really, is a wizard coming in a gladiator circus something serious outside of the WoW plane ? ;-))SOOOO, about the topic: Fighter are cool and powerfull enough to my taste. I will even certainly nerfed them with house rules if I come to the point to use PFRPG. Problems is not fighter indeed but that 10 feats from levelling - I prefer 5, to keep it short. Be creative ![]()
![]() DracoDruid wrote:
I am with you for this one ! Two levels of rogue before any sneak attack YES ! Also, for me the problem of broken SA has its roots in the iterative attack system. Getting rid of iterative attacks is one of my concern. Spoiler:
To get rid of ... then scrap it ...
This following one is different from 3.5 to help playability. We have always been uncomfortable with iterative attacks because they slow-down and “rollify” a lot the game. A good alternative for us is to replace it by a feat which allow a double (or triple and so on ) attack with a –5 cumulative malus.
If you solve the number of attacks in the game with a feat based iterative attack then the rogue (but not only him) is far less available to bog in battle with countless awfull blows. Be creative ![]()
![]() Kirth Gersen wrote: The popular mind-set seems to be that a 10th level character SHOULD be able to easily kill an entire army between sips of champagne -- even if that seems completely stupid to me. I definitely agree. But, also a lot of epic tales and movies are quite stupid too if you think at it twice. So we can quickly jump on something like: AD&D is a stupid game for stupid nerds in a stupid world which is certainly something very close to THE truth. But, I prefer to think that D&D is the epic side of the Fantasy Roleplaying Games. When I want to be more in touch with a life feeling, I’m playing Runequest. I have always been amazed by how Runequest rules were more solid / simple and robust than D&D ones during the last 30 years. The backside is that combats are very long and very deadly – in Runequest you can localize your hit and the head of an human has 4 to 6 pts, at 0 you are dead ! – Almost all creatures can kill you, especially when you are outnumbered.But, despite its very flavour, Runequest has never been, from far away, so popular that D&D and it is not more published. Why ? Certainly a question for gamers and professionals. I’m definitely not sure that the never ending empowering of the classes and, as a consequence, of the game since the end of the 70’s was a 100% win move. Generally speaking, the players are more and more spending time in character sheet flipping and self combo’s preparation than in role playing and epic scenes of group battle. And I don’t talk about the time spent in character building + levelling and the players’ awe in front of their countless feats, special abilities, spells, HP and so on. These are, at the end of the day only very complex mechanisms but not fun at all ! Ok I have to come (late) on topic now. The rogue seems to me very powerful with its sneak attack as it stands. I have house played it for a while without all the sneak attack abilities as they stand, and surprisingly, I always got players who want to impersonate one in my games. If a rogue wants to use a “sneak attack” action, he has to be unnoticed and also to be able to score a special success (with a skill based DD). If he misses or is noticed, I allow the victim to have a free attack on the rogue if legible. That way, I keep the sneak attack a risky but rewarded manoeuvre. And I forbid the generalisation of it like a boring combat trick the thief repeats again and again almost whatever the situation. Be creative ![]()
![]() I would consider Favored Class as an option left to DM Choice with a suggestion of simple and balanced advantages to select with. This list should be generic, something like:
Yes, for me the Barbarian shall go with 10 Die. And you can add something like: "It is up to DM choice to replace or change this by balanced bonuses of any kind which are fitting their game the best." And because it's an option, I'm also 100% to cut Favoured Classes in the core mechanisms. Be creative ![]()
![]() DelvesDeep wrote: Still kicking aroung this site Sean? ;) Sean Halloran wrote: Haha, after spending so many years PLANNING the SCAP, I'm finding getting a chance to run it Hi guys, happy to see you are still around with your great ideas ! After two years I'm Dming Demonskar Legacy for my two different groups. I had also to flesh out a little bit the LL and went (thanks to DD first hints)with (almost) the same type or organization Sean is describing. Spoiler:
My addition is to have created an old Jester who became renegade 10 years ago when the big V came in the city and started to install his guys everywhere. This guy is Artus Shemwick (the one who is giving information about Triel's lair in Flood Season (Hard Cover version). Artus escaped an attempt of assassination and entered clandestinity. He sees the PCs rogue as a way to manage his revenge and proposed some support to him. Artus is not the true name of this guy. He has no real knowledge about who is the puppets master but he has a lot of information about the LL and the local things in Cauldron. He is the Fish nemesis in some way.
Perhaps you can play with that idea also. Be creative. ![]()
![]() Robert Brambley wrote: or be a distinguished gentleman and know how to Perform ballroom dance Hello Robert, do you remember something like a Demonskar Bal ? ;-)) Back on topic. I’m not a fan of the type of discussion I see on all that PRPG Alpha messageboard. But anyway, I’m here to try to get information and to feed back for some of the French guys I’m playing with. So I’m very pleased by your post on that topic (skills) I find very difficult to follow up through the many threads. I like a lot of your ideas. Just let me present one or two suggestions about the skills system.
How to use it ? Basic of the system is how to calculate our skill bonus. You will do it by:
Your final bonus is: (actual level - entering level) / Class factor, rounded down
The system is quite simple and easy to go with. The weakness is you have to take care of the order you built your experience in skills because its not possible to come back in slow downing some skill in order to push forward another one.
By the way, I’ve started my Role Player life in 81 ! So, if you don’t mind, I will call you Junior ;-) Be creative ![]()
![]() Aso wrote: "T... t... t... totally." Hey ! Does it mean you don’t like my points guys ? Doug Bragg 172 wrote: I am curious about the reasons behind …From Jason's perspective it's better to know the reason why something is a "no" … If you know why something isn't working, it's easier to fix it (or to decide that the perceived problem isn't a big enough problem to justify reworking things). We were just assuming a vote can also be straight forward useful for Jason. It is the way it works for the politicians who are ruling our real life or am I wrong? When we (me and my buddies) think we have detected a flaw we say ‘NO’ but it is very often a question of feeling. It is especially sensitive for us because we have many different people in my gamers circle – and even girls (just kidding!) – who gives their opinion. We never had a global unanimity.So, because we prefer to work in compromising than in expressing extremes viewpoints, we feed-back once for the group. But it means also we cannot argue a lot by respect for the different friends – and even girlfriends ;-) – who will be betrayed if I do it. The only case I propose a comment is when our group discussion about a point was so passionate that we tried to find an alternative. Sometimes NOs are not in that class. I agree that it should be nicer to find a way to help Jason more. However, it is his job to find the best rules – which means for us, the rules which are able to reach the largest and fairest compromise from the community. He is here just like a politician. If he is good he will have his seat like these magic GG and DA had in their time. For sure he can read the comments and choose what is fine and what is not but if everybody requests his attention for each opinion he is very likely he will not be able to do his job properly. Doug Bragg 172 wrote: It sounds like this wasn't based upon any play testing I made it clear in my posts from the beginning. We have not started a game session so far. And you are right, we do talk together about the rules, just like in this forum. Doug Bragg 172 wrote: You want creativity so long as what you view as being a D&D cliche don't change. So, no creativity then. I know many movies, novels, songs, people, animals which are creative in respecting some codes or standard or way of life or instinct. But, to be honest, I’m very interested in Half-Orc Bards, Barbarian Halflings and so on. They are the true challenges of the game in regards of role playing. So please don’t whisk me, me the poor old French guard of the D&D museum. Perhaps I will change my comment in “Be funny” … Do you get the points there ?Be funny ;-)) ![]()
![]() I and my group are also pleased by racial HP. But as stated in my above post we don’t understand why a frail race is entitled a racial bonus to HP. So we voted for a 0 for the frail race.
Therefore we ended with 1 and 2 HP for standard and hearty races. It spices the character but without the danger of an unexpected disgusting reaction when mixed with other options and rules points. Ok, if the aim is to give a big HP boost to everything our comments are just useless. But, if we are trying to improve a flavour for the future gourmets then they could make sense. I’m French, so please forgive me for the cooking lesson. I like also the clichés and this one was a way too appealing for me to resist the temptation. ;-) Be creative (in your kitchen too !) ![]()
![]() Mortagon wrote: Getting rid of iterative attacks my house rules (Slightly complicated) To get rid of ... then scrap it ... This following one is different from 3.5 to help playability. We have always been uncomfortable with iterative attacks because they slow-down and “rollify” a lot the game. A good alternative for us is to replace it by a feat which allow a double (or triple and so on ) attack with a –5 cumulative malus.
The DR point above is not so important with that system because the multiply bonus is balanced by a -5 malus to hit. Be creative ![]()
![]() Szombulis wrote: Very interesting comments, … Thank you. We are by now just starting the tests. Our focus at the current step is in character creation and we will not really start to play before other classes will be disclosed by Jason. However, we are making a lot of comparisons with existing or past characters we generated by the hundreds – from OD&D to 3.5 rule sets. Szombulis wrote: …there seems to be quite a bit of NOs listedOur main standard for expressing our opinion are:
Then it leads to some NOs with PRPG… but not only ;-) Just to put it on figures, lets imagine an Halfling wizard (sic!) with the PRPG race and the Double or even Racial HP rules… its HP will reached a total in between 10 and 14 hit points or more at first level. Something feels wrong in regards of the archetypes. It is possible to discuss points like this one in tomes. However, for us, it tastes like a major violation of our iconic faith in D&D so … NO. Szombulis wrote: Curiosity asks- what were the main races and classes playtested? Honestly, we have not play-tested yet in a game session (as stated before). On the other hand we have created and checked any combination of Races / 1st level Single Core classes with different starting hit points rules. We have also created the iconic Dwarf Fighter – Rogue Halfling – Elf Wizard – Human Cleric at level 5, 10, 15, 20. Szombulis wrote: Were players happy with the creation process as prescribed at the onset Do you know any player which is not happy in creating a PC when he wants to enter a game ? ;-) More seriously, we appreciated some streamlining things like skills. However, the common feed-back at the end was it should be improved again and some comments were expressed in that way (see my posts). I will come back with a more dedicated feed-back for any of the core classes in a future post. Szombulis wrote: What, if any, were the biggest fixes or wishes about the system as it stands? We don’t pretend we can fix anything – that’s the Jason job isn’t it ? we are only gamers ;-)) About the wishes… Yes we have (a lot I’m afraid !) and just a few are below :
I take the opportunity to link this message to the post about The classes play test here Be creative ![]()
![]() INTRODUCTION: The target of this post and its surgeons is to give a first feedback of the trials and the comments of my RPG (players and GM) community about the Paizo project “PRPG”. Spoiler:
Just because it can make sense (or not) for the reader, here are our “stats”. We are about 30 French guys & girls:
Everybody played at least 30 times in D&D 3.5 rules and we are 6 to DMing it currently. Also most of us have played a lot of different RPG games from Runequest / ODD / Call of Chtulu to WoW & Warhammer. On each feedback we will try to focus on a very small window of the trial / comments. Always, the revision of the rules set will be stated plus some relevant mention to chapters, ands so on. We also will verbatim Jason most meaningful sentences in regard of the trial and discussion done. We will not try to argue for or against. I will harshly give the score as: YES – NO – BOF (a French term expressing lack of interest or enthusiasm). Then, when useful and available, an alternative proposal discussed in between us and seeming interesting will be reported. I don’t know if our efforts will last for a long time and if I will be able to post regularly and about the whole think… But at least we will try to pay our coin to this great challenge of Paizo. The core Classes in ALPHA rev 1.1
Jason wrote: “I wanted the Pathfinder RPG to clean up these rules, by streamlining in places …” FOR ALL CLASSES
Comments:
This one could be different from 3.5 to help playability. We have always been uncomfortable with this because it slow-down and “rollify” a lot the game. A good alternative for us is to replace it by a feat which allow a double (or triple and so on ) strike-shot with a –5 cumulative to attack. Each time you want to increase your multiplier you have to buy the feat. When you deliver more than one attack on the same target you roll once with the appropriate malus and you multiply your damages in case you hit. For more than one opponent you combine at your will. This rule would have also the very good side effect to help the Fighter to emphasize his class difference. The next thread will be focused in each Classes trial and comments. Be creative ![]()
![]() INTRODUCTION: The target of this post and its surgeons is to give a first feedback of the trials and the comments of my RPG (players and GM) community about the Paizo project “PRPG”. Just because it can make sense (or not) for the reader, here are our “stats”. We are about 30 French guys & girls:
Everybody played at least 30 times in D&D 3.5 rules and we are 6 to DMing it currently. Also most of us have played a lot of different RPG games from Runequest / ODD / Call of Chtulu to WoW & Warhammer. On each feedback we will try to focus on a very small window of the trial / comments. Always, the revision of the rules set will be stated plus some relevant mention to chapters, ands so on. We also will verbatim Jason most meaningful sentences in regard of the trial and discussion done. We will not try to argue for or against. I will harshly give the score as: YES – NO – BOF (a French term expressing lack of interest or enthusiasm). Then, when useful and available, an alternative proposal discussed in between us and seeming interesting will be reported. I don’t know if our efforts will last for a long time and if I will be able to post regularly and about the whole think… But at least we will try to pay our coin to this great challenge of Paizo. The Races / Favoured Classes in ALPHA rev 1.1
Jason wrote: ”I wanted to make sure that it stayed true to the original vision of the game.”
Jason wrote: “I wanted the Pathfinder RPG to clean up these rules, by streamlining in places …”
This last one ask for a comment. Indeed no changes have been done by PRPG here but a lot of us (during feed-back) came with it needs to be. The core idea is that the Favoured Class linked to XP reward is just an old nasty idea to make the life harder for DM and its players. It should make a lot of more sense (from our discussion group) if Favoured Class is heavily connected to the races + classes archetypes.
…and we propose to drop all the other rules about favoured and XP.
FIRST GENERAL NOTE ABOUT CLASSES: Jason wrote: “Far too many of the basic classes lose their lustre after just a few levels, leading most players to take a host of other classes or a number of prestige classes.” To improve the interest of the core classes and to limit the min-maxing plague we have also start to discuss that:
These ideas are especially sounded (IOHO) when applied with the favoured class modification. Our next post will be focused in Classes trial and comments. Be creative ![]()
![]() INTRODUCTION: The target of this post and its surgeons is to give a first feedback of the trials and the comments of my RPG (players and GM) community about the Paizo project “PRPG”. Just because it can make sense (or not) for the reader, here are our “stats”. We are about 30 French guys & girls:
Everybody played at least 30 times in D&D 3.5 rules and we are 6 to DMing it currently. Also most of us have played a lot of different RPG games from Runequest / ODD / Call of Chtulu to WoW & Warhammer. On each feedback we will try to focus on a very small window of the trial / comments. Always, the revision of the rules set will be stated plus some relevant mention to chapters, ands so on. We also will verbatim Jason most meaningful sentences in regard of the trial and discussion done. We will not try to argue for or against. I will harshly give the score as: YES – NO – BOF (a French term expressing lack of interest or enthusiasm). Then, when useful and available, an alternative proposal discussed in between us and seeming interesting will be reported. I don’t know if our efforts will last for a long time and if I will be able to post regularly and about the whole think… But at least we will try to pay our coin to this great challenge of Paizo. Starting Hit Points in ALPHA rev 1.1
Jason wrote: ”I wanted to make sure that it stayed true to the original vision of the game… I wanted to ensure that any conversion work would be minimal.”
For the Racial proposal, the discussion was strong but the flaw is about the heavy boost proposed and the original taste of the game to preserve. At the end we will be very much pleased if the bonuses are:
races. Also these racial bonuses have to be included in the racial section (its common sense but …) Be creative ![]()
![]() INTRODUCTION: The target of this post and its surgeons is to give a first feedback of the trials and the comments of my RPG (players and GM) community about the Paizo project “PRPG”. Just because it can make sense (or not) for the reader, here are our “stats”. We are about 30 French guys & girls:
Everybody played at least 30 times in D&D 3.5 rules and we are 6 to DMing it currently. Also most of us have played a lot of different RPG games from Runequest / ODD / Call of Chtulu to WoW & Warhammer. On each feedback we will try to focus on a very small window of the trial / comments. Always, the revision of the rules set will be stated plus some relevant mention to chapters, ands so on. We also will verbatim Jason most meaningful sentences in regard of the trial and discussion done. We will not try to argue for or against. I will harshly give the score as: YES – NO – BOF (a French term expressing lack of interest or enthusiasm). Then, when useful and available, an alternative proposal discussed in between us and seeming interesting will be reported. I don’t know if our efforts will last for a long time and if I will be able to post regularly and about the whole think… But at least we will try to pay our coin to this great challenge of Paizo. The Races / Favoured Classes in ALPHA rev 1.1
Jason wrote: ”I wanted to make sure that it stayed true to the original vision of the game.”
Jason wrote: “I wanted the Pathfinder RPG to clean up these rules, by streamlining in places …”
This last one ask for a comment. Indeed no changes have been done by PRPG here but a lot of us (during feed-back) came with it needs to be. The core idea is that the Favoured Class linked to XP reward is just an old nasty idea to make the life harder for DM and its players. It should make a lot of more sense (from our discussion group) if Favoured Class is heavily connected to the races + classes archetypes.
…and we propose to drop all the other rules about favoured and XP.
FIRST GENERAL NOTE ABOUT CLASSES: Jason wrote: “Far too many of the basic classes lose their lustre after just a few levels, leading most players to take a host of other classes or a number of prestige classes.” To improve the interest of the core classes and to limit the min-maxing plague we have also start to discuss that:
These ideas are especially sounded (IOHO) when applied with the favoured class modification. Our next post will be focused in Classes trial and comments. Be creative ![]()
![]() Necroblivion wrote:
Hi Necro, I fully agree here. I'm also using a rule of that kind but my inspiration came from the Runequest oldies !Anyway, I have a Combat Defense (CDEF) score which is quite the same of yours. I've just push a little bit the borders so that armors have negative impact on the CDEF score - Have you ever seen two guys boxing with the same dodging efficiency when wearing a plate armor ??? I have tuned that and run D&D 3.5 (almost 100 play tests sessions or more) with it. My players never complained and the game is not slow down at the end of the day. For sure I had a bit of conversion to do with monsters, armors and few feats but it's not too hard. Cons: The one you mention mainly. I will also emphasize the need of well preparing all the modifications for armors, shields, spells and magic items dealing with CA.You have also to take care that the curves of balance for the combat in the game are not crashed (it's a little bit of maths here but only for game designers and it has proven to be not so difficult). pros: Again you're right with realism. I will add also a very good flavor in having different approach of fighters (not only the tank one is appealing thanks to this rule but also the swift one). The rule makes it VERY different to wear or not to wear an armor. Also the "Touch AC" is by far more realistic and appealing (a monk can be a very challenge, even for a ray). If some guys are interested in that type of rules I have a fully ready for use set for 3.5 which has been in used for years with my players (25 or so in total).
I'm not sure Jason Bulhman has dig this thread and if his compatibility codex will allow a so - how to say that - revolutionary change ? But think it twice my friends: Who is still taking care of most of the ODD and AD&D older rules erased by the time ?
Be creative ![]()
![]() Olaf the Stout wrote:
There are a lot of good ideas in your plan Olaf. But perhaps it is a little bit too quick. It is important to create some crescendo all along the numerous game sessions of this story arc. You may need a lot of ammunitions, and if possible crafted by the PCs themselves, to keep your players stuck in Cauldron. I will try to explain by an actual example: One of my parties had a first adventure before Life Bazar so that the PCs were tied together. However they had no link with Cauldron and basically no Background. To improve the PCs' involvement I applied the following on the fly:
So, with this very draft start, the four first chapters went smoothly. I added all along more foreshadowing. The Keygan Ghelve trial - each player had to take the role of one of the Noble of the Town Council during one of our game session - was a good step. The hints about a cage of the CW found in the Drakthar's lair was another step... and also the DD's Demonskar Ball (again many thanks to DD for his GREAT idea)... and a lot of other things which happened in response of the players’ actions and role play. I also used a lot of the ideas of this forum as the nightmares, the Last Laugh and more. The events you prepare before arriving in Cauldron are good but take care of the three following traps:
But as usual you are certainly the best judge in what will enjoy your players.
If french is not a problem for you you can have a look at this
Be Creative. ![]()
![]() I'm curently running two different groups in SCAP. One of 6 and one of seven players. I've completed a third of the campaign to date (after 14 months of play and 25 sessions of five hours for each group !!).
I agree with some of my fellow DMs here to encourage you to not choose a too extreme / radical character. Definitely a tank can give a lot of help and pleasure as well. But be careful of the laws in town (which can be a killer for a barbarian role). Perhaps you can have a look on some paladin thing or some dwarven possibilities.
I think the DM has to manage the traits in the HC alone and without any intervention of the players. Some of these things should stay unknown and be revealed gradually to the player during the adventure IMHO. But as usual your game is your DM world and your Character is your burden ;-)) Let's go for what you're pleased with first. Be creative ![]()
![]() If a summoner and his eidolon both have the Escape Route (Teamwork) feat, and he is mounted on the eidolon can they move about the battlefield without provoking AoOs? Ultimate Combat wrote: Escape Route (Combat, Teamwork): An ally who also has this feat provokes no attacks of opportunity for moving through squares adjacent to you or within your space. Since they are always in each other's space do they always have each other's back covered? |