Yeah got that... though I really meant that the show has picked up.
Like I said, the B5 effect. If you only have so many bullets (episodes) left, then you make each one count.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Part of the current storyline is that Echo has access to all the imprints she's been given. For that to have dramatic impact, and for that to still have limitations, we've had to see the imprints. That was Season One.
Some more ruminations:
I think Bennet was right about the orginal personality leaking out around the edges. It was certainly the case with Alpha's psychosis. And if, as Bennet asserts, the original Caroline was a natural leader, then Echo is manifesting the same qualities, working with Boyd, Ballard, and Topher. She's even capable of working with, rather than under, Adele.
So Echo's angry insistance that she's not Caroline Farrell seems odd. She's Caroline's personality, without the incidents that brought Caroline to the Dollhouse in the first place.
Where is Whiskey in all this? How has she avoided the bleed-through? Three months, and they still haven't found hide nor hair of her, either? And did they not bother to keep tabs on November, either?
During the first season, there was evidence of unaccounted-for intrigue at the House. (For example, somebody sent Ballard the message through November's imprint.) It wasn't Alpha, who didn't have access to the imprinting equipment. It wasn't Dominic, who didn't have the technical know-how, nor the desire to help Ballard. It probably wasn't Whiskey. I'm growing more convinced it's been Ivy, Topher's assistant.
November was a much more effective deadly assassin than the host of dolls Alpha activated.
Time to make room for American Dancing With the Survivors Who Think They Have Talent.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Time to make room for American Dancing With the Survivors Who Think They Have Talent.
Tormenting my roommate with bad jokes.
"Did you hear Saudi Arabia has their own version? 'So you think you're allowed to dance?'
Or the version for Amish women 'So you think you can wear pants?'
For the geographically challenged, 'So you think you're in France?'
The Equestrian version, 'So you think you can prance?'
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These latest four episodes have reminded me that Joss has a rare gift for finding amazing secondary actors. Dina Lachen as the 20's era moll 'whose man done her wrong' and 'Victor' playing as Topher were just amazing.
It's like Buffy all over again, where I end up watching a show to see what the secondary characters are up to and am tempted to fast-forward through the scenes with the main character...
Wow. Good episodes tonight.
Second episode, I was glad to see Dominic back in action, especially being back as a good guy. Reed Diamond is a great actor and even though I hated his character, I was sad to see him go to the Attic. Speaking of hate... my loathe meter for Adelle was pinging off the freaking charts until the last bit and then I was like, wait... what? And WHAT THE HELL did they take from Paul? Something that will piss him off, so it has to be associated with Echo somehow but what?
Only three episodes left. :-(
Yeah, it was a really good night. Joss is going out with a bang.
No, but there will be a three week break until the next episode airs.
These two hour blocks of the show were good, I think it was a fine choice in terms of pacing. If they'd only been hour-long episodes, there would likely have been too much tension built up to carry over for a whole week.
BTW Adele scares me (a little).
And was this the seaon finale??????????????
Patrick
No, no, my friend.
Three episodes to go.. But those will be the series finale. It's been cancelled, but they're trying to wrap up the whole show with some continuity.
Three episodes to go.. But those will be the series finale. It's been cancelled, but they're trying to wrap up the whole show with some continuity.
Ack. I had not heard about the cancellation. It's good to know they're going to try and tie up loose ends; I hate it when a show ends without some final resolution. The way that Farscape ended, for example, was not fun for an avid fan.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
I think the realization of an end is making the show better. If you scroll up the thread I talk about in more detail, but the pressure and the time constraint sometimes forces the producers to churn out their very best material in the time that they have left.
That is, if they want to finish telling their story.
Babylon 5 had a really kinda wilted first season, but from then on was always on the knife's edge of always being cancelled. And that pressure really made them turn it around into a quality program. It also prompted the Creator/Producer to write himself into a corner, where upon he had to invent a reason for another a season.. but that's another story.
the begining of the end. Guess after tonight there's just two episodes left. Glad to see more cast returning for the finale.
Holy Crap!
** spoiler omitted **
I really didn't see that coming.
** spoiler omitted **
Holy Crap!
I really didn't see that coming.
OMG!
OMG!
OMG!
That episode had about a dozen season finales worth of shocks and awwwws!
I knew there was a reason I have always hated Adelle.
I knew there was a reason I have always hated Adelle.** spoiler omitted **She is evil beyond redemption.
I gotta say, I prefer Lipton Brisk.
I knew there was a reason I have always hated Adelle.** spoiler omitted **She is evil beyond redemption.I gotta say, I prefer Lipton Brisk.
I feel stupid. Took me a full minute to realize what you were saying. :-/
Funny when I did get it though.
Hahaha!!!
I just think it's a shame that the dude who plays Victor (Ajklsjfie Ywhrjhf) didn't get an Emmy nod. He's amazing!
An excellent episode.. this series is going to have a great finale I can tell.
Was it just me or...
There was an interesting bit in the trailer for next week, where Boyd has his arm on Topher's shoulder and says, "I'm so glad that I brought you into this.." Or something like that.
An excellent episode.. this series is going to have a great finale I can tell.
Was it just me or...
** spoiler omitted **
I think that's a stretch, buuuuut at this point, anythings possible.
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It's truly a shame that this show wasn't given a fair shake by Fox. It is great! Fox has meddled with this show since inception. Joss had to redo the premiere, because Fox didn't like it and they have constantly stuck their noses into this show. Granted, some episodes haven't been good, but the episodes are 10x better than most tv. They are being canceled, but only because Fox is completely idiotic about what is good tv.
Everything has been in high gear since everyone learned Fox was canceling the show. Joss decided to go out with a major bang and he is delivering big time!! I was floored at the episodes lately. Especially, last nights! I had not seen that coming at all. Felt really awful for topher (OMG that's Summer your doing that too!)
I really cannot wait for the remaining episodes. I have a feeling that something is going to happen to Millie next as she tweeted her last episode was like the one before the last two.
To me, the supporting cast on this show is 10x better than the lead actor. I am not a real fan of Eliza Dushku. She has had her moments on the show, but the supporting cast put together for this show is amazing! Every single one of them are incredible actors and they have made this show!
Buckle up. Only a few episodes left. The real ending should happen in the next one or two. Epitath 2 will be the final episode set in the future.
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Was it just me or...
I noticed that, too. What's his name in the Attic mentioned that he invented all this stuff, and that huge chunks of his mind were taken away, so that he couldn't even remember what his partner looked like, so having those chunks of genius made into someone who doesn't threaten the partner and can continue providing to the company would make sense, given the technology they've got.
Hahaha!!!
I just think it's a shame that the dude who plays Victor (Ajklsjfie Ywhrjhf) didn't get an Emmy nod. He's amazing!
That would be Enver Gjokaj. :)
An excellent episode.. this series is going to have a great finale I can tell.
Was it just me or...
** spoiler omitted **
I suppose there could be some extra special kind of active architecture that would make him immune, but that'd have to explain/lampshade a LOT to make it make any kind of sense.
It's truly a shame that this show wasn't given a fair shake by Fox. It is great! Fox has meddled with this show since inception.
If you were saying this about Firefly, I would agree with you and then some. With the canceling and re-ordering and reairing, that was an executive screwing of the finest order.
With Dollhouse... honestly, as far as I know, not so much. They guaranteed Joss a full first season. They promised him no more at the time, and he knew that, and he worked with that. They never rescheduled the show during that time, they never showed the episodes out of order. They then, despite the fact that the show had consistently low ratings throughout the first season, renewed it based on its Internet viewing and DVR use, and the general buzz that it generated. They gave the show a LOT of chances, and really, did not interfere that much.
Yes, they did make him re-do the pilot--and you know what? Listen to Joss Whedon's interviews and DVD commentary about that. He agrees with them on why they asked him to re-do it. It revealed too much about some things and not about others (for example, the identity of "Lubov" was spoiled right away). I've seen the original pilot. It has its merits but storytelling wise the aired premiere was quite good as it was. (Also? A TV network asking someone to re-do a pilot is about as common in Hollywood as models saying, "But I'm really an actress.")
During the second season, ratings consistently declined, quickly from the consistent, if small, 4 million down to roughly 2.5 million. That's not enough reason to keep it on air. I can only assume Internet viewership stopped too. As far as I know there was nothing to do with this from FOX--more people stopped watching. The only bit of "meddling" was not showing the episodes during sweeps in November, but by that point, the ratings were already hitting rock bottom.
Now, the Friday night slot was the main thing that Dollhouse had going against it. But it was being consistently popular on TV and on the Internet the first season that the time slot wasn't enough to sign its death warrant. But come season 2, people stopped watching. Fox didn't do anything except notice that--and if it's not making them money, they can't afford to keep it on the air. That's all. They're business people. They made a sound business decision, no "meddling" involved.
I have no love for FOX, but using them as the scapegoat in this particular case just isn't really fair.
I liked Dollhouse a lot and I did watch it religiously, but I also wasn't happy with a lot of episodes in the middle of season 2; I hated the increased use of the character Ballard particularly. He doesn't have the charisma to carry the role he was given, IMO, and it ruined a lot of my fun watching the show. But I digress... I think they've done what they could to explore the show's potential. It was good--but they got a fairer shake than better shows like Firefly, and unfortunately, it lost its sheen and now is its time to die. Even if it had a massive viewership, I really can't imagine what they could bring new to a third season that they haven't already done.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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You know, I watched Season one, thought it was alright, nothing too special. Season two just sort of plodded along until it was announced as cancelled. THEN it got good. Maybe we should put Joss Whedon on a weekly contract: make a bad episode and you're out. That way he HAS to keep creating good stuff. And we've seen that he can.
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I hated the increased use of the character Ballard particularly. He doesn't have the charisma to carry the role he was given, IMO, and it ruined a lot of my fun watching the show.
Agreed, and that surprised me, since that actors character was almost the only character in Battlestar Galactica that I didn't want to leap through the glass and strangle. But wow, Ballard sucked.
Topher grated at first, but he's really grown on me, particularly as he's developed a conscience.
Eliza, love of my life, since I first saw her as Faith, did not carry this role well, and I'm not sure how much of this was her and how much of this was the writing. Surely they could have found some more compelling roles for the woman who can be anyone than nerdy hostage negotiator and Kiki, the clueless college co-ed.
Amy Acker's Dr. Saunders was nicely understated, but had a simmering something going on, which was slowly revealed.
Boyd started out a little stiff, and then got almost uncharacteristically funny. "Topher is having moral qualms? Topher?"
Victor and Sierra just rock. Easily my two favorite characters on the show, and romantically involved, which, this being a Joss Whedon show, means that one of them will die soon. No relationship gets out alive.
Adelle veers from my hating her guts to admiring her cold-bloodedness. She's bordering on magnificent bastard territory. That's some good writing and acting, to make me change my mind like that, like a dog responding to a bell.
Agreed, and that surprised me, since that actors character was almost the only character in Battlestar Galactica that I didn't want to leap through the glass and strangle. But wow, Ballard sucked.
Bear in mind that I may be misremembering, but I recall interviews with Whedon show that he loved Penikett in BSG and the character of Helo, and that to some extent, Ballard was meant to be a Helo type character. And I think that might be the problem... Helo was a great character, but in his own context. Trying to recreate a similar character in an entirely different genre--and moreover trying to "copy" a character than just write what the show needed--turned Ballard into exactly that: a carbon copy, a cardboard cutout of someone Penikett had already played. A doll, if you will.
Topher grated at first, but he's really grown on me, particularly as he's developed a conscience.
I think his character development has been an example of some of the best writing the series had to offer. I didn't dislike him at first, but it seemed like he wouldn't go anywhere. How wrong I was!
Eliza, love of my life, since I first saw her as Faith, did not carry this role well, and I'm not sure how much of this was her and how much of this was the writing. Surely they could have found some more compelling roles for the woman who can be anyone than nerdy hostage negotiator and Kiki, the clueless college co-ed.
The weird thing about the hostage negotiator is she still stands out to me as being quite different from a lot of the other personalities Eliza/Echo was given. And that she played her well showed that she could be versatile in the roles she was given. The problem was as the show progressed, more of the roles seemed to be variation on Faith-like badass (with the occasional exception) but still. I agree with you it was more of a problem of the writing than the actress.
I think Echo herself should have been written as a little more erratic as her personalities became to emerge--childlike one moment, analytical the next, etc.
Amy Acker's Dr. Saunders was nicely understated, but had a simmering something going on, which was slowly revealed.
Both actress and character were awesome. Crazy Whiskey at the end of the most recent episode seems to have shades of a sort of depressive Illyria, but I think otherwise the character's been pretty unique and quite effective.
Boyd started out a little stiff, and then got almost uncharacteristically funny. "Topher is having moral qualms? Topher?"
Agree... and ultimately he became a delight as the show progressed. I'm curious what he will do in the final episode.
Victor and Sierra just rock. Easily my two favorite characters on the show, and romantically involved, which, this being a Joss Whedon show, means that one of them will die soon. No relationship gets out alive.
I would be enormously impressed with Whedon if he didn't kill off one half of a couple for once. It would show he's capable of growing as a writer. I don't have much hope.
I mean, I think he's a good writer. But he seems to have hit a plateau, and I don't know if he's ever going to learn how to get over the tropes he has a tendency to overuse.
I love both those characters, and Enver Gjokaj and Dichen Lachman are fabulous and I hope they go on to do many wonderful things. They got all the varied personalities, too, that Eliza seemed to have been shortchanged on.
Adelle veers from my hating her guts to admiring her cold-bloodedness. She's bordering on magnificent bastard territory. That's some good writing and acting, to make me change my mind like that, like a dog responding to a bell.
I adore Adelle with my heart and soul. I did when she was a villain and when she wasn't and when she's both. I love, love, love characters like that--always so cool, so collected, always have a plan, and you NEVER know what side they're on. And Olivia Williams plays her brilliantly.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Well, that was "The Hollow Men".
New Rules for Villains: "If all I need is the hero's body, a frontal lobotomy goes a fair distance towards keeping her docile."
(I suppose the same could have been said for the computers in the Matrix, really.)
Fortunately, the villain isn't just evil; he's insane.
And hey, Alpha's still out there. I wonder what he could do with Topher's tech, or how he'll feel should he ever find out what Rossum had been up to.
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I imagine that if the show had continued, Ivy would have turned out to be the replacement CIA / government mole after Dominic stopped reporting in.
Fun to see Victor-as-Topher again.
Interesting choice *not* to imprint Priya with the same fighting skills that Anthony was imprinted with. Maybe it was felt that between Echo and Dr. Saunders, there was going to be enough chick-foo going on.
And Dr. Saunders was Clyde, at least lately? Hmm. Makes that kiss between Boyle and Dr. Saunders in his apartment a bit of an eye-opener. Were he and Clyde always friends-with-benefits, or only when Clyde is in a hot girl's body? The contrast between Victor-as-Topher and Saunders-as-Clyde was pretty striking. We hadn't seen enough of Clyde to get a real feel for him, and his personality wasn't as eccentric and over-the-top as Tophers, but still, I didn't see much of 'Clyde' in her performance. I liked Amy's transition from whacky and neurotic Fred to aloof and temperamental Illyria, but this was not really enough of a transition to show, in her acting, IMO.
I actually kind of liked this episode as an end-point. The whole Epitaph thing doesn't really interest me that much, since I would have liked the end better if Boyd was *wrong,* and the 'genie' didn't get out of the bottle.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Regardless of what shows up in their final contractual episode, I am very grateful they had the opportunity to actually end the show by tying things up. The end of Angel always seemed really forced, despite all Joss's efforts to make it neat and tidy. Firefly is probably a better comparison though.
I enjoyed the Hollow Man because of the characters, but part of me kept noticing that the sets were quite.. humble.
Rossum's top secret high medical tech super-lab was actually quite modest. Simple sparse corridors and plain doors. It could have been any unused and borrowed office building. That got me thinking.. Boyd as the surprise last minute villain? Well, that kept them from paying another actor. Same with Amy Acker as Clyde. Small cast, thrifty scenery.
I said as much to my wife, who didn't take the comment very well. "I love it for the characters!" Bless her heart. All I was (and am) saying was that I thought the characters deserved better.
I dunno.. I liked the whole series. Perhaps I have no taste but there wasn't an episode that I didn't enjoy. I'll be sorry to see it go.
EDIT: Victor/Anthony as Topher was more amazing than the first time! I bet they had fun with that!
EDIT: Victor/Anthony as Topher was more amazing than the first time! I bet they had fun with that!
The Victor-as-Topher scenes have always amazed me. I mean as roleplayers we all try to 'act'. So I have some respect for those who do it professionally, but that was above and beyond. To be able to mimic the expressions and mannerisms that someone else created for a different character... watching him pull that off was pretty incredible.
And it's over. :-(
Paul dying wasn't exactly unexpected, but I like that Alpha left his imprint for Echo.
And Alpha! I knew they would have to bring him back to tie everything up, but I wish we could see the story of how he gained control over his... issues.
The Priya/Tony tie up was satisfactory, but nothing amazing.
Adelle, meh. I like evil b~$!@ Adelle more than concerned matron Adelle, but the turn the story took really left no room for her. And I guess seeing the world fall apart like that would slap some sense into a person.
Can't wait for the 'complete series' discs to come out.