Creative Director
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Then I'll wait...... what about level's 16-20
Pathfinder 6 has an adventure that ends at about that level. As will Pathfinder 12. Now and then, the Bestiary in Pathfinder will feature higher CR monsters as well; we've had several CR 15+ creatures show up so far.
But as for higher level adventures... eventually, yes. But not soon. If we hear a sudden uprise in the demand for high level adventures, that'll change... but alas, there's generally more of a demand for psionic adventures than Epic adventures. And there's not a huge demand for psionic adventures. :-(
But as for higher level adventures... eventually, yes. But not soon. If we hear a sudden uprise in the demand for high level adventures, that'll change... but alas, there's generally more of a demand for psionic adventures than Epic adventures. And there's not a huge demand for psionic adventures. :-(
No doubt, not to mention that there's me and Russ that would like to see an underwater adventure...
... but alas, there's generally more of a demand for psionic adventures than Epic adventures. And there's not a huge demand for psionic adventures. :-(
I won't be brazen and ask for a psionic adventure, but can there at least be some sort of psionic flavor in Golarion, be it secret organization(s) or a far away nation of some sort? I'd like to have a reason for psionic PCs' existences... Psionics are one of my favorite things, especially with all the stuff Dreamscarred Press has put out.
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Creative Director
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I won't be brazen and ask for a psionic adventure, but can there at least be some sort of psionic flavor in Golarion, be it secret organization(s) or a far away nation of some sort? I'd like to have a reason for psionic PCs' existences... Psionics are one of my favorite things, especially with all the stuff Dreamscarred Press has put out.
Yes. In fact, I can think of three places we've more or less decided have psionics in our campaign. I may be persuaded to say more at tonight's chat.
I won't be brazen and ask for a psionic adventure, but can there at least be some sort of psionic flavor in Golarion, be it secret organization(s) or a far away nation of some sort? I'd like to have a reason for psionic PCs' existences... Psionics are one of my favorite things, especially with all the stuff Dreamscarred Press has put out.Yes. In fact, I can think of three places we've more or less decided have psionics in our campaign. I may be persuaded to say more at tonight's chat.
Sweet! Looks like I might have get in on the chat action tonight!
I, too, will sign the petition.
What the hell.. can I sign both the petition for high level content and low level content?
I'd buy both, put it that way.
I'd also buy psionic content.
In fact, I'd buy high level psionic content, underwater.
I may be persuaded to say more at tonight's chat.
Persuade. Persuade. Persuade.
(What?!? I'm just trying to persuade him.)
I can't get my head around how people love high level play and Epic blows my mind? I suppose it would be boring if we were all the same.
I find adventures above 15th level very difficult to run and getting the balance correct between killing a big part of the group and them walking over your encounters is a nightmare. All the players I know love the feel of 4th to 12th level, after that it gets a bit less fun. It is not just my DMing either, as I have played in several groups and we all feel the same way.
I vote for more adventure paths wrapping up at 15th level. I am also not a huge fan of Psionics, but I have no problem with them being exclusive to my bad guys. I actually like it when the villains can do things that the players could never do. Makes them more unique.
My ideal world would be sightly less powerful than typical, with the main movers and shakers of the world being 12th level. this means that once the PC's reach 15th level, they are real powers. I disliked the forgotten realms, high/epic level NPC round every corner feel. I get the impression from the APs that Golarion (sp?) is very much in the same sort of mould as my likes.
I can't get my head around how people love high level play and Epic blows my mind? I suppose it would be boring if we were all the same.
Really, there's nothing wrong with either... and I think more people like might both, but there's seldom a good, popular, well supported game that scales from low level to high level easily.
I consider it one of the toughest design challenges.
Sorry guys, but given the current ruleset, DM'ing high level games is a pain. I'd temporarily cancel my subscription if an epic campaign came out.
As I think we've mentioned before, Pathfinder is not the proving ground for wild new ideas or relatively unpopular topics. You are far more likely to see an epic or psionic one-shot module than an entire PF adventure path dedicated to such a topic.
Hurrah :-)
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If/when Paizo switches to 4E, I'm sure we'll see some "epic" play since it's part of core and nothing special anymore. :P
Doesn't the standard 4e rules go to level 30? So the new epic levels will be level 31 and above. I always viewed epic level play as the levels beyond what is covered in the core rules.
I'd temporarily cancel my subscription if an epic campaign came out.
And lose that spiffy "charter" tag? >:)-Skeld
Yes, me too. That tag doesn't impress me much on anyone else, why should I give a rat's ass whether I have it?
As I think we've mentioned before, Pathfinder is not the proving ground for wild new ideas or relatively unpopular topics. You are far more likely to see an epic or psionic one-shot module than an entire PF adventure path dedicated to such a topic.
Yah baby. Thats what I'm talkin about. So what about the Little Pony Ninja AP, how's that coming?
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In the terminology that 4E bloggers are using, epic play will consist of levels 21-30. You'll also have Paragons (levels 11-20 characters) and plain ol' adventurers (I forget the term for 1-10).
It's not just the bloggers, it's in the Races & Classes book so many people refused to buy.
I had a longer post that the forums swallowed but I don't feel like retyping it incase it reappears. :)
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Don't care much for high level play. If you do it, please increase the page count, because if I end up getting it, it would be nice to have more than one encounter.
Underwater? That would totally rock my socks off. And then I would also feel compelled to buy rock stuffed socks (there would be three customers for it).
If you do high level play, I would prefer a Gamemastery module over an AP. But I haven't found it works very well. If Paizo did it, though, it would probably be the best it could be. So, I'd be curious to see it (once, probably).
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Personally, I'd prefer they didn't release any epic level modules until Golarion has been fleshed out more. They're doing a wonderful job of revealing the world bit by bit, and a place with epic level challenges might not mesh well yet.
Unless it was a dream-style sequence with the characters reliving the time of the Runelords. Hmm....
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Personally, I'd prefer they didn't release any epic level modules until Golarion has been fleshed out more. They're doing a wonderful job of revealing the world bit by bit, and a place with epic level challenges might not mesh well yet.
May not have a choice. Epic level play in 4E has been redefined and it maybe be a lot easier to get to level 20+ in the future.
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Be that as it may, there's nothing saying they have to write their APs so that things progress to that level. After all, none of the current paths go higher than 16th, at least at current planning.
That's because the current system is slow. By level 16 there isn't much left you can't do (ok 9th level spells are still out of touch.) But in 4e the CORE system is 1-30, not 1-20.. I serious find it difficult to believe that they're changing the spell levels and character levels just to make level 20+ hard to reach.
No, I think XP requirements per level is going to be scaled back and in 4e you'll level fast and gain XP fast.
3E | 4E
1-5 | 1-10
5-10 | 10-20
10-20 | 20+
I'm sure that's going to be the "feel" of the new game when comparing the two editions.
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Personally, I'd prefer they didn't release any epic level modules until Golarion has been fleshed out more. They're doing a wonderful job of revealing the world bit by bit, and a place with epic level challenges might not mesh well yet.May not have a choice. Epic level play in 4E has been redefined and it maybe be a lot easier to get to level 20+ in the future.
That's just WotC changing terminology.
I would support the principal of TriOmegaZero's post - We don't need heroes becoming gods, gaining empires and destroying mountains until we have a strong idea of what they're replacing/changing/adding to.
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I find adventures above 15th level very difficult to run and getting the balance correct between killing a big part of the group and them walking over your encounters is a nightmare.
I'd be lying if I said it was easy to DM such adventures, largely because descriptions of the 3.xE "epic" game as an add on system are accurate. I've had a to do a fair amount of modifications to it from the 3.5 "updated" ELH but so far its been sustainable. I will say the critic of 3.xE NPC generation taking too long for a character with 10 minute screen time is applicable. Nevertheless it can be done, and done well, even by a DM of modest talents (ie Me).
All the players I know love the feel of 4th to 12th level, after that it gets a bit less fun. It is not just my DMing either, as I have played in several groups and we all feel the same way.
I'm just starting a group used to capping their games around that level, more from TPK's/player changes/loss of interest in the campaign than lack of desire to play higher/epic level. So far, they "feel like kids in a candy store," and have already derailed NPC tactics twice. They seem to be having fun, but I'll wait till the end of the session to see if they like it or not.
My other group built this PC's up from 4th level. I started that game in undergrad, and nearly five years later they're around 35th. They're delighted in the characters they have developed for so long. They nearly mutinied when I joked about retiring them to start new ones (they're not opposed to starting a new campaign, just the thought of shelving this one).
My ideal world would be sightly less powerful than typical, with the main movers and shakers of the world being 12th level. this means that once the PC's reach 15th level, they are real powers. I disliked the forgotten realms, high/epic level NPC round every corner feel. I get the impression from the APs that Golarion (sp?) is very much in the same sort of mould as my likes.
That's a very respectible opinion, even though I disagree as to my taste. I (personally) like the feel that while a character has indeed done amazing things worthy of praise in song, there is always something stronger to challenge or assist in the next Herculean task. While I understand it is distateful for some to not have PC's be the only/biggest movers and shakers because it ruins the feel of the campaign, I've never had that problem for one simple reason. Those higher level NPC's are busy fighting off even higher level challenges.
"Yes, that Blackstaff is higher level than you, and, yes, what you are doing is very important (we may all die if you fail) but right now he's keeping the ::insert powerful organization here:: from adding to YOUR problems in a manner that would certainly doom the world. All we can do is offer some advice at the moment..."
To some, it a cop out. To me, in a world where our imagination rules, it's a gauntlet at their feet. Do you run, hide, and hope someone stronger than you saves everyone? Do you rise to the challenger, give it your all, and help the forces of good stave off the darkness one more time? What would you do?
My players love it, and so do I. Nonetheless, I respect your manner of running a game as its closer to being realstic, is satisfyingly visceral, and is a heck of alot easier to run (DM's get tired too!).
Hope that helps shed some light on us "weirdoes" who like higher level play.
FP
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As I think we've mentioned before, Pathfinder is not the proving ground for wild new ideas or relatively unpopular topics. You are far more likely to see an epic or psionic one-shot module than an entire PF adventure path dedicated to such a topic.
Fair enough. I know there used to be some (read: a lot) outcry for more epic material on the Wizard's boards before 4E was announced, but I have no clue if they would prefer 3.xE epic or 4E "epic" material now. I'll guess we'll have to wait and see how the whole 3.xE/4E goes before [/i]I can even claim[/i] epic is not a "wild new idea" or "relatively unpopular."
I would be happy to get high/epic level modules in a similar style to "Razing of Redshore," "Storm Lord's Keep," "Heart of Hellfire Mountain," and "Quicksilver Hourglass" by people I trust to publish adventures.
I'd still like a higher level AP, but I won't hold my breath or cancel my subscriptions over not getting it.
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Personally, I'd prefer they didn't release any epic level modules until Golarion has been fleshed out more. They're doing a wonderful job of revealing the world bit by bit, and a place with epic level challenges might not mesh well yet.
Unless it was a dream-style sequence with the characters reliving the time of the Runelords. Hmm....
I can agree with that, both with the wait and see what they develop non epic and with the potential earlier AP where high/epic level characters were more common.
I would support the principal of TriOmegaZero's post - We don't need heroes becoming gods, gaining empires and destroying mountains until we have a strong idea of what they're replacing/changing/adding to.
Again I can join in the opinion, except for the deity/mountain/empire. None of my epic levels PC's have yet involved this (a small castle blowing up yes) and my group has been happy. It is possible that writers of better talent ::cough:: Paizo ::cough:: than I could do those things well, but they're not requirements for epic gameplay.
Unless you're talking 4E... j/k
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I would support the principal of TriOmegaZero's post - We don't need heroes becoming gods, gaining empires and destroying mountains until we have a strong idea of what they're replacing/changing/adding to.Again I can join in the opinion, except for the deity/mountain/empire. None of my epic levels PC's have yet involved this (a small castle blowing up yes) and my group has been happy.
Ironically, with games I'm in as a player, I often tend to start 'empire building' at relatively low levels. Nothing epic about it, except that I tend to think large-scale and long-term. I can already think of what a few different of the characters I've played would be doing in Sandpoint, for example, or with the fort and Turtleback Ferry/Skull Dam.
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Ironically, with games I'm in as a player, I often tend to start 'empire building' at relatively low levels. Nothing epic about it, except that I tend to think large-scale and long-term. I can already think of what a few different of the characters I've played would be doing in Sandpoint, for example, or with the fort and Turtleback Ferry/Skull Dam.
That can be quite fun and was one of the many things I liked about the Birthright campaign setting from 2E.
It could be very interesting if Paizo did a AP centered on the PC's taking control of a small region (say a city) and various events after they've assumed the mantle of leadership.
It could be very interesting if Paizo did a AP centered on the PC's taking control of a small region (say a city) and various events after they've assumed the mantle of leadership.
I believe I've seen a suggestion of a "Bloodstone" style AP, referring to the old H1-4 1st Ed AD&D modules Bloodstone Pass, The Mines of Bloodstone, The Bloodstone Wars, and the hard to find Throne of Bloodstone (the first "epic" adventure, designed for levels 18-100!) where the party can run a barony (and maybe gain a kingdom). I think this would be interesting, also. If you start the AP at 12th-15th level and pace the adventures so that the party gains only one (or maybe two) levels per installment (probably by concentrating on politics, improving lands/fortifications, and recruiting/training military forces), you wouldn't even have to push into epic levels, necessarily.