For me, the ONLY thing that would get me to try 4th edition is if Paizo got the rights to Greyhawk and came up with a Player's Guide that included its take on gnomes, druids, bards, and all other classic races and classes left out of WotC's PHB.
At the same time, it would keep schools of magic and avoid use of warlocks, warlords, tieflings, dragonborn and other "new" elements that don't have a place in classic D&D.
I'd want the setting to be self-sufficient, other than requiring the use of the PHB, DMG and MM. Any further WotC supplements would not factor in, though Paizo would release their own supplementary material.
It would be 4th edition with a classic D&D feel to it.
At this point, nothing. What I've already seen of 4e is sufficient to be a complete deal-breaker.
The only thing that might have done it would be if they left the Forgotten Realms in a recognizable state, but that ship has sailed as well.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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At this point, nothing. What I've already seen of 4e is sufficient to be a complete deal-breaker.
Right now, I'm considering 4th Edition to be a clean break with a lot of my D&D experience. It's a new game, and probably a pretty good game. I hear the question, and I translate that to "What would get you to try RuneQuest?"
So, a compelling DM and campaign would get me to play. But I'm not interested in buying the books, and I'm not interested in learning the rules-set to the extent that it would confuse me when I run 3.5 games.
Right now, I'm considering 4th Edition to be a clean break with a lot of my D&D experience. It's a new game, and probably a pretty good game. I hear the question, and I translate that to "What would get you to try RuneQuest?"So, a compelling DM and campaign would get me to play. But I'm not interested in buying the books, and I'm not interested in learning the rules-set to the extent that it would confuse me when I run 3.5 games.
Chris' post pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter of 4E.
Of the two groups I game with regularly, WOTC's asinine marketing has already made one extremely anti-4E, and the other is very much on the fence. I'm going to do my best to tip the fence sitters squarely back into 3.5 territory, bu if the group goes 4E I'll probably stick around for a few adventures. I won't be purchasing any books however.
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I'd at least give it a whirl if someone promised to buy all the 4E materials they're gonna roll out over the next 5-6 years before 5E, because that's the game I'm done playing.
But so far I've heard nothing at all to get me excited to even try it, sadly. Especially if that means any reinvestment.
-DM Jeff
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Half a bottle of 15 years old Bruichladdich whisky. Or the same amount of Bunnahabhain, 18 yo, in a pinch.
Seriously: someone else who buy all the books, does the adventure planning, some players above the 30s and with some roleplaying experience, and a DM who I can trust.
And a generous amount of the aforementioned beverages. ;-)
Wow... and I thought I was anti-4th edition! ;)
Seriously, not even a Paizo campaign world (Greyhawk is my top choice) that PROMISED to re-instate classic elements and only relied on the initial 3 core books (plus Paizo's supplements) would get you to the table?!?!
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Oh, I'll TRY 4E, but at this point it doesn't seem likely I'll buy more than the PH, and that just to see what they did with the system and steal a few bits for my 3.5 game. I really WANT to like 4E, but the cons seem to outweigh the pros for me. However, what WOTC can do to sway me to be more open minded is start opening up the previews more to really show what they did with the mechanics - more along the lines of the Dragon 3E preview articles. Now they're being so tightfisted with crunch previews that it's hard to see what the whole system looks like. Then again, maybe if they showed the crunch off more I'd like 4E less than I do now.
And for FR, there's no way I'll every play in the 4E version of that. They've changed it so much that they should have just made a new campaign world.
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Half a bottle of 15 years old Bruichladdich whisky. Or the same amount of Bunnahabhain, 18 yo, in a pinch.
Seriously: someone else who buy all the books, does the adventure planning, some players above the 30s and with some roleplaying experience, and a DM who I can trust.
And a generous amount of the aforementioned beverages. ;-)
You brought a tear to my eye. Isle of Islay Whiskey ftw. Laphroig is good too, but its a love it or hate it Islay malt. Anything 15+ years. 12 year old is crap.
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I'd do it for a million bucks. Tax free.
[Threadjack] If they'd pay you $1 million to play now (2008) and paid your taxes on it the next year (2009), then you'd have income in the value of those paid taxes (2009) and have to pay for it the next year (2010). Thus you couldn't get it "tax free" in exchange for playing 4e. [/Threadjack]
For me, if my current concerns prove to be true I have two different issues that need to be addressed before I would buy/play 4e.
1st, my near future (ie release date few months after) finances need to be settled such that'd I feel secure investing in the new edition. Since I'm starting a job, buying a house, etc, this is unlikely.
2nd, my past collection of D&D stuff must be useful, ie, I can convert old material without having to reinvent the wheel.
I'll look into it when I have time after release, but unless a lot of the stuff the WOTC employees have said about conversion is unfounded, I will, respectfully, decline.
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I'd do it for a million bucks. Tax free.[Threadjack] If they'd pay you $1 million to play now (2008) and paid your taxes on it the next year (2009), then you'd have income in the value of those paid taxes (2009) and have to pay for it the next year (2010). Thus you couldn't get it "tax free" in exchange for playing 4e. [/Threadjack]
For me, if my current concerns prove to be true I have two different issues that need to be addressed before I would buy/play 4e.
1st, my near future (ie release date few months after) finances need to be settled such that'd I feel secure investing in the new edition. Since I'm starting a job, buying a house, etc, this is unlikely.
2nd, my past collection of D&D stuff must be useful, ie, I can convert old material without having to reinvent the wheel.
I'll look into it when I have time after release, but unless a lot of the stuff the WOTC employees have said about conversion is unfounded, I will, respectfully, decline.
It's not really about the money; it's the Black Christmas girls that won me over.
PS: Now Scott Rouse is making fun of those of us that are tired of hearing the word 'cool' in conjunction with 4th Edition over at EnWorld. Man that makes me want to play even less. Hey if you can't convince the anti-4th Ed crowd to play; might as well ridicule them. That will win us over every time. Not.
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Wow... and I thought I was anti-4th edition! ;)
Seriously, not even a Paizo campaign world (Greyhawk is my top choice) that PROMISED to re-instate classic elements and only relied on the initial 3 core books (plus Paizo's supplements) would get you to the table?!?!
The fluff could be mighty good, but the crunch (seen so far) makes me wanna puke.
That bad.You brought a tear to my eye. Isle of Islay Whiskey ftw. Laphroig is good too, but its a love it or hate it Islay malt. Anything 15+ years. 12 year old is crap.
Word.
Also, the Bruichladdich Full Strenght (13 yo, non-diluted but cask-strenght) is something straight out of the legends. Though be careful with it, pal.|
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It's not really about the money; it's the Black Christmas girls that won me over.
That's a whole 'nother story!
PS: Now Scott Rouse is making fun of those of us that are tired of hearing the word 'cool' in conjunction with 4th Edition over at EnWorld. Man that makes me want to play even less. Hey if you can't convince the anti-4th Ed crowd to play; might as well ridicule them. That will win us over every time. Not.
In reality, I'm of two minds about the over-usage of the word "cool". On the one hand, it could be used to pull younger (than my soon to be 25 years) people in to the hobby and I can understand being defensive when people correct my writing sturcture/grammar (nearly bawled when I got my first draft back for my law paper). On the otherhand, it can get extremely annoying to read how "cool" everything "new" is and ridiculing even potential/former fanbase is never "cool." I HAVE NOT read the thread where Mr Rouse allegedly ridiculed the un"cool" crowd, so I don't know the context. I guess what I'm saying is this is a wash.
As for Paizo 4e setting.... thats a hard choice and I don't like having to make it. I like Paizo and I support companies I like. I also try (very hard) not to but things I don't need/won't use. So I'll modify my above post to say there is a VERY slim chance this would sway.
Of course my wife might have something else to say about that...
A free SRD (on par with 3rd edition's) is about the only thing that would get me to take a look.
However, $2.00/book in a used book store might also get me to pick up the core books.
Wow... and I thought I was anti-4th edition! ;)
Seriously, not even a Paizo campaign world (Greyhawk is my top choice) that PROMISED to re-instate classic elements and only relied on the initial 3 core books (plus Paizo's supplements) would get you to the table?!?!
But the three core books are going to be so far away from the D&D game I want to play... I just don't know if I could enjoy it, even with a Paizo game world. There'd be so much they have to change that they might as well design their own RPG.
The 4e rules seem to be *fundamentally* built around a gaming style meant to appeal to younger players who think of MMO's and video games when they think "gaming." And that's not the game I want to play.
I'd probably still buy the Paizo books and adventures, though, for the fun of reading them and possibly converting them (or elements of them) into 3.5.
I'll probably end up trying it at a game day at my FLGS.
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Free books would make me TRY 4.0.1.
Anything else is just a waste of my time and money. Like many others, I have several thousands of dollars invested in 3.x resources.
Of course, I will be downloading the 4.0.1 SRD just because I can.
The 4.0 SRD is only a reference document. It say stuff like: Attack options; page 83 PHB1
It won't be like the 3.5 SRD. WotC has already made that painfully clear.I don't know what would sway me to play.....I really can't think of anything. I have more 3.5 quality Paizo material than I could get through in 10 years of gaming and I don't wanna buy 4.0, 4.5 in 3 years, 5.0 4years after that. I may as well skip this edition and see if 5.0 does something to gain back the "grognards".
Paizo going 4E would make me try it (Eventually). I trust Paizo.
It would wholly depend on what the 4th AP was (plot wise, I'm assuming that things will be square with the OGL and Paizo will move to 4th edition either with AP 3 or for sure AP 4). I'm on board through the 3rd AP simply because the plot seems fairly intriguing (though that might change if J.J. announce that all the drow wear pink fairy wings or something to that effect). If the 4th and 5th AP's grab my interest, then I'll pick up the base three books simply to run those (or help me convert them to 3rd if somebody else isn't doing it). But even so, I'm going to be using other systems (and older editions) as my main system of choice.
Your race will matter for the whole campaign,
I see this quoted a lot and it always confuses me. Why does it stop being useful in 3.5? Do you stop being you once you gain a few levels or a few magic items? For me race determines a personality and a background which never goes out of use at the higher levels. Sure there is some cruch to support them but isn't that just icing? Why does it need to scale, isn't that what classes are for? I'm not really trying to rant, everyone plays the game for different reasons I'm just trying to understand. Sorry if I threadjacked.
To TRY it? Hmmmm...
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I'm not planning on going to 4E, but it will be up to my gaming group. When 3E came out, we voted to try it. We'll probably do the same thing when 4E comes out. Majority rules. The game's the thing, and if the majority of my group wants to switch, I'll probably switch, too.
the game was developed by people who play the game FOR A LIVING.
Man, that would rule! If only I could find a way to make that work...
Hex maps.
Seriously.
If 4E made a point of restoring the hex map to its proper place of honor in D&D, I'd re-evaluate my strongly negative impression of the new edition.
Seriously.
A house. With a big spare room. I'm out of storage, and uninterested in storing away my current collection. Since that isn't going to change, I'm afraid I'll be staying where I am.
Sword and sorcery rules. That would get me to buy it.
To try it? Give a "setting book" that reflects D&D cultural history (planes, great wheel, not needing psionics to charm people, etc).
Release.
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Free updates & errata. No DDI subscription requirement.
I am VERY concerned that the 3 core books will be lacking in editing and coordination. Then when needed revisions/updates/errata are released, I fear WotC is going to require me to subscribe to the DDI to get current rules info.
I hesitate to jump in and buy the 3 books right away for this reason. Hearing officially from WotC that I will not have to worry about this would get me to buy the 3 core books. Whether I decide to actually "play" 4e will depend upon the content of the books.
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At this point, I would very much prefer Paizo not pick up a license for Greyhawk.
They have Golarion, a setting with no history they have to answer to anyone else about. I would overwhelmingly prefer to see them do their thing than try to follow on someone else's thing at this point.
Also, barring some extreme expansion of staff, trying to do both settings at once would very likely overwhelm them, and result in both settings suffering from the divided effort. Golarion is too good so far to deserve being put on the back burner for any other setting, even Greyhawk.
As for 4E, it would take a significant demonstration of content and playability, combined with a significant change in desire among the local players, for me to have any desire to switch. Right now, everyone is discussing how to keep 3.5 campaigns going, including how to keep the LG Game Night at the venue going with something else, either with the reserve of published 3.5 adventures we have available, or with personal campaigns. It will not matter if I change my mind if nobody else does.
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Information.
What do I mean by this? I mean straight out, good information. Don't say "it's cool", don't say "it's way better than what you're doing now". A better way would be for more straight up previews like the preview for the Elf.
Most of what we talk about on these boards is a hodge podge of misinformation. If the truth could come out, I'd try 4e. I already know that I'm going to have to try it, because wherever I end up will probably be changing.
I think the real question that WotC need to ask is "What could sway me to go back to buying one or two books a month of 4th edition?"
The answer is basically: Give me a reason to give up my 3.5 library, and not be angry about doing so. So far, saying something is cool and changing it in a way I don't like doesn't do it for me. Maybe they will.
Would you guys give it a try with a Free demo?
Lots of areas with strong Gaming communitys have WOTC Delegates in the area, and if they were to provide you a free demo of that game would you try the demo? and mabye give 4e a shot?
What if 4e is the best gaming system to come out for D&D? Would you really want to miss that? I'm not saying it will be, but is sure could be.
If you see a Demo, at World wide D&D game day, a Convetion, or your LGS give it a try you might be surpised.
At this point, I would very much prefer Paizo not pick up a license for Greyhawk.
They have Golarion, a setting with no history they have to answer to anyone else about. I would overwhelmingly prefer to see them do their thing than try to follow on someone else's thing at this point.
Ditto.
(Insert quote about flaming flying monkeys and butts.)
EDIT
If forced to answer the question, honestly assuming swaying was possible, I'd have to see some cool things done with the cleric that overcomes the lame-ass pantheon they came up with.
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To be serious (and from what I know so far):
-get rid of tieflings as a core race.
-Get rid of the Elemental Chaos (but just 4 elemental palnes, no quasi-, or para-), and put the Abyss elsewhere.
-Put Succubi back with the demons where they belong.
-Give Greyhawk its stolen gods/dungeons back.
-guarantee that their won't be another edition change for at least 10 years.
-Get rid of Eberron.
That's a start. I'll try to think up more for later.
1. Return Greyhawk features back to Greyhawk.
2. Include all of the races and classes in the PH which are found in the current PH.
3. Don't wait with releasing popular monsters that have been around in the MM since the advanced D&D days (Frost Giant).
4. Significantly slow down the XP system.
5. Put spells like Wish and others that have been around since the advanced D&D days back in.
6. Return to us paper Dragon and Dungeon magazines.
7. An apology for slamming the door in the face of those who have carried TSR and WOTC from day 1.
8. The core three books (free to get started).
9. Rewrite their fluff so it is consistent with the previous 30+ years.
10. Coninued strong Greyhawk support.
So in otherwords it ain't gonna happen.
What could sway you to try 4th edition?
Reasonably easy adaptability to my Greyhawk campaign. There's not room for dragonborn or lots of tieflings, and succubi need to be changed back to demons. I'm sure other stuff, too.
And staple monsters better be in the first MM. If I have to wait for hobgoblins (or whatever), I'm out of there.
Time will tell.
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Short answer: Nothing.
Longer answer:
1. Scrap any of the stupid changes they are making to the Forgotten Realms (and that would, IMO, be all of them).
2. Roll the parties responsible for the above changes into the town square and have them stoned (biblical old-school style)
3. Somehow convince me that they have spent more than all of about 6 months on this - there is no way it could be in such disarray as this if they've really been working on it for two years
4. Stop stealing names of things and applying them to totally (or significantly different) things - see #1 above, as well as several other examples
5. No subscription-based content. This is a blatant money-grab which clearly indicates they have no real desire to provide a complete system without a monthly cost attached.
6. Don't make people take steps backwards when comparing core books to core books. I can understand if someone can't play a Deepwood Sniper out of the gate, but a druid? That should be pretty simple.... (see #3 above)
I have several other conditions, but they may not be appropriate for this forum as they involve specific people.
Anyway, I think that the Longer Answer really just leads back to my short answer. They've already forked it up so badly, as far as my interest is concerned, that I will never allow any money to flow into WotC again.