^^^ Invisible Dot.
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Hello everyone. I'll post some sessions here for your amusement and input.
Four players. Mature, experienced gamers all. 21pt. build.
-Urban Barbarian
-Alchemist Chirurgeon
-Rogue
-Bard
- Set up a campaign website w/google to post announcements, player writings, and general input. We did this with Kingmaker, and everyone got a kick out of it. It created a nice social hub for us outside of email.
- Players contribute backstories. My prompt was "Gaedren Lamm has wronged each one of you in some way." Everyone created a bit of a dark background for their characters except the bard, who is a married man with a family and a career in Korvosa.
Session 1: Introductions and backstories all around, and I allow these things to flow into the initial encounter with Zellara. I run the Zellara encounter just a BIT like a haunt: with a single Will save to resist a "wave of emotion that washes over you" (with no consequences). The harrow cards she uses as she tells her backstory got some raised eyebrows, so the players KNEW something was weird about her story. I figured since she can manifest illusionary cards to get their attention, she can manifest an illusionary version of her deck to cast a harrow spread.
Also, I slowed down the cadence of her story a bit and gave her an accent because I thought that the way Jacobs wrote her story was a little too matter-of-fact for a ghost/murdered mother and not emotional enough. The Will save was a twist to help with the mood.
- The encounter with Gaedren Lamm went a little too slam-dunk. Yargin got knocked unconscious quickly, the half-orc foreman went down in about one round, and the gnome was set-upon by the orphans shortly thereafter. While the map required some explaining ("What is this part here? It's UNDER the warehouse?") Gaedren was eventually cornered.
One of the players had her younger sister as a captured orphan working for Gaedren, and the others reported "She's been taken to see uncle Gaedren", just to build a little tension. Sure enough, Lamm had the girl dangling over the croc pit. I ruled it was a "block and tackle with a chain", so that a clever rogue with a rapier might use her blade to halt the chain if he were to let it go. It never came to that. The bard ran and attacked, taking Gaedren down to 0hp in one blow. Gaedren was "accidentally" fed to his croc.
In retrospect, I would keep Gaedren's hand on the chain as a readied action against anyone approaching, and let him gloat and lecture.
Head-in-the-hatbox found, they realize Zellara's true nature. Spooky moment, and a good reveal.
I also threw in a "red ledger" containing a list of contacts and bribed officials around the city. I thought Gaedren might have such a thing and that it would make a useful hook later on.
Sneaking into a warehouse at night, the presence of innocents, the criminal nature of an urban campaign were excellent elements, and everyone said they had a good time. In retrospect, I would bump up the circumstances, making for a little more teamwork from the fishery thugs and Bloo.
Session 2: Players experience the city in chaos.
- Rescue a rich nobleman from the mob. He awards them 5pp, but because they are in a roleplaying mood, I allow some diplomacy checks, and he decides buying the players a drink would be a good idea. They bend his ear about city politics and I use this as an opportunity to prod them towards taking the brooch to the queen. He warns them about seeming like looters and brigands.
- A drunken half-orc looter is in the tavern (this is the first night of rioting) and he's making trouble. They attempt to talk him down out of a fight and I decide this is a good time to break out the Social Combat deck. None of us had used it before, but a 3x3 grid became a lot of fun. They failed however, and I ruled that three of his rioting friends come into the place as Initiative is rolled.
Things go reasonably well for the PC's, so I have three more rioters arrive. (Level 1 thugs). The rich merchant runs and summons help from the next room of the tavern, one of whome is Grau Soldado. I affect an Antonio Banderas accent, and challenge everyone "who draws steel in this fine establishment." Intimidation checks are made (something I wanted to use heavily in this urban campaign) and rioters leave. Conversation with Grau Soldado ensues, and the players elect to get him yet even more drunk to help preserve their reputation. He gets returned to the fort.
I rule that all merchants and commerce are shut down in the city the next day, and no loot gets sold. They spend the day pursuing a meeting with Grau Soldado, and getting him to take a doctored version of the red ledger to a guard captain to exonerate and polish their reputation, and find out if there is a reward for the brooch.
I don't discourage players when they overelaborate on a plot point. It leads to some creative stuff...usually.
-Encounter with Otyugh goes very well. The barbarian and alchemist nuke it pretty effectively, but a CR4 threat DID grab each of them. They took it down before it could work any real damage on them. 3 rounds combat.
Brooch is returned to the queen, and the group is recruited by Field Marshall Cressida Kroft. The queen acts suitably haughty and suspicious. Players are getting used to making Sense Motive checks.
I decide that the throne room (after the queen departs) would be a good opportunity for the local lords and ladies to rub elbows and allow the players to make inroads to the upper crust. A 4x4 social grid was laid out, and the players fail right before the last card. The tension this allowed was lots of fun, and the players began roleplaying each challenge on the cards (Diplomacy and Bluff only). If they had won, I would have perhaps had them invited to dinner "Once things settle down" and maybe used that occasion for a hook for something.
- All the World's Meat:
I used the Chase Deck to allow the players to chase down an old sailor who had approached the window to get free meat. Everyone said they loved the chase cards once they understood the rules. They caught him, and this becomes their "in" for information to the Cow Hammer Gang.
The PC's infiltrate the front door (the rogue used some feminine wiles) and she used Bluff to get him to leave the door unbarred. Hilarity ensues as everyone barges in soon after, and the first two goons go down from a grease spell and the barbarian's nonlethal damage.
From there, the PC's sneak up the stairs, to find sergeant Verik Vankaskerkin lounging at his desk. In retrospect, I probably should have allowed for him to have heard the combat downstairs so he'd be at the ready, but as it was, they took HIM down in two rounds. Not a big deal, as he's a political prisoner and not a mindless thug (I played him as too smart to be a soldier, and seduced by Arkona).
Everyone said they had a good time, and enjoyed the card games. I've found the tavern maps, the rooftop tilemaps, and battlemats are quite handy for this campaign. In the future, I need to bump up the CR a bit for these guys, depending on the ability of the party. I didn't want to slaughter Level 1's though if they get bad rolls. (Which I did with Thornkeep once).
They use the skiff that's tied up at the end of the underpier. They can bring skiff below the hole in A8 and lower a rope down so people can climb up or down.
See the text of area A12 on page 19 where it describes the fate of orphans who have outlived their usefulness.
I stumbled over this as well, so thank you for clarifying this.
But, honestly, THIS is how Lamm, who is not exactly a spring chicken anymore, get's in and out if his place? Climbing a rope?
There is also an area of shoreline just to the south, between the Fishery and the Abandoned Warehouse where Lamm could board his skiff and paddle over to the Underpier.
I struggled with the logistics of Fishery map too. It is peculiar, but then again so is Lamm.
I just made the rope a ladder bolted to the floor.
I am confused by some of the wording for B4. Killing Floor in All the World's Meat.
In one paragraph, it states:
"The rusty grating in the southwest corner can be bashed through or pried up out of the ground to allow access between the filthy tunnel and this room. The area below is a disused sewer tunnel that runs due east into the river, although the tunnel narrows down to a 4-foot-wide, mostly flooded passageway for most of that length."
And then the very next paragraph (seemingly) contradicts that statement saying:
"Characters who investigate the filthy, rancid chamber below area B4 find a circular cesspool 15 feet across and 10 feet high. Much of the room is filled with rotting meat, congealed blood, and bits of bone..."
So is the area underneath the chamber a disused sewer tunnel leading to the river, a large chamber containing a cesspool, or both? Maybe the tunnel leads from the chamber with the cesspool? The wording is not clear, but maybe I am missing something.
Thanks for any clarity on this!
I am confused by some of the wording for B4. Killing Floor in All the World's Meat.
In one paragraph, it states:
"The rusty grating in the southwest corner can be bashed through or pried up out of the ground to allow access between the filthy tunnel and this room. The area below is a disused sewer tunnel that runs due east into the river, although the tunnel narrows down to a 4-foot-wide, mostly flooded passageway for most of that length."
And then the very next paragraph (seemingly) contradicts that statement saying:
"Characters who investigate the filthy, rancid chamber below area B4 find a circular cesspool 15 feet across and 10 feet high. Much of the room is filled with rotting meat, congealed blood, and bits of bone..."
So is the area underneath the chamber a disused sewer tunnel leading to the river, a large chamber containing a cesspool, or both? Maybe the tunnel leads from the chamber with the cesspool? The wording is not clear, but maybe I am missing something.
Thanks for any clarity on this!
Both.
Both.I am confused by some of the wording for B4. Killing Floor in All the World's Meat.
In one paragraph, it states:
"The rusty grating in the southwest corner can be bashed through or pried up out of the ground to allow access between the filthy tunnel and this room. The area below is a disused sewer tunnel that runs due east into the river, although the tunnel narrows down to a 4-foot-wide, mostly flooded passageway for most of that length."
And then the very next paragraph (seemingly) contradicts that statement saying:
"Characters who investigate the filthy, rancid chamber below area B4 find a circular cesspool 15 feet across and 10 feet high. Much of the room is filled with rotting meat, congealed blood, and bits of bone..."
So is the area underneath the chamber a disused sewer tunnel leading to the river, a large chamber containing a cesspool, or both? Maybe the tunnel leads from the chamber with the cesspool? The wording is not clear, but maybe I am missing something.
Thanks for any clarity on this!
Agreed, when I ran it, I pictured it as a narrow passage way (sewer) leading to a cesspool, with a another passage leading further onward to the river.
Ok, that'll work for me. Thanks for the response guys.
In the Edge of Anarchy, on the map, Zellara's "home" looks like it is the southern most part of West Dock, but then in the Guide to Korvosa the Bailiff's Relief Tavern is in the same spot on that map. So where does she live exactly? In West Dock, in High Bridge, or in Slope? It says there are no residences in West Dock, but there are Apartment suites available for rent there. So was she on the bottom floor of an apartment suite for 30 years in West Dock?
Joe
Abbreviated Guide to Korvosa.
Midland District
Slope Ward:
M1. Bookmaker: Korvosa’s largest bookstore. Proprietor of the store Costa Serminus (N male half-elf expert/rogue 4/2).*Zellara’s Home: Covered in Pathfinder #7 Edge of Anarchy.
*Trinia’s Flat: Covered in Pathfinder #7 Edge of Anarchy.
*Girrigz’s Den: Covered in Pathfinder #8: Seven Days to the Grave.
West Dock Ward:
M2. Bailer’s Retreat: Tavern. (marked as M12 on map)*The Old Fishery: Covered in Pathfinder #7: Edge of Anarchy.
*Hospice of the Blessed Maiden: Covered in Pathfinder #8: Seven Days to the Grave.
So, you're placing Zellara's Home in the Slopes, when on the map it is in the same city block as the Bailer's Retreat. Where in the slopes?
This may have already been covered and I missed it, but bear with me.
When the PCs first "meet" Zellara, she tells them how Gaedren stole her Harrow deck, and how her son died trying to get them back.
While shuffling the cards.
Asking if the PCs would like a free reading.
And saying that "her cards tell her more than they tell most" if PCs ask how she knows so much about them.
I've learned through years, players tend to pick up on the small things a GM can overlook.. fortunately I saw this one. How exactly does she have her cards and read for the PCs, if said cards are still presumably in Gaedren's possession?
I mean, obviously, -I- know; it's the illusion, etc. But how do I avoid Zellara being caught in this loophole if a PC asks?
My players watched her home all day, so when they went in and she comes in after, they asked her where she had been. Who she'd seen and what she had been doing. And yeah, what about the cards. I finally said she just stopped answer their questions and asking if they wanted revenge on Gaedren or not.
My group fell in numbers from 5 to 2 (sometimes 3). So only 2 for going after Gaedren. They decided it had been about 10 years or more since they escaped from Gaegren, so how would he recognize them as adults? They met Yargin (who it says, was only working for Gaedren for 9 years) and got hired as additional labor with the children. Because of that, they were able to get Hookshanks alone and kill him, but that made Yagrin and Gaedren suspicious (when Hookshanks disappeared), so that triggered the final attack. It was a hard battle with just 2 PC's. I held back the animals attacking, and they depended on their Harrow Points (good thing they had them).
I am getting ready to run my players through Part 4 Welcome to the Guard, and was reading about the Cow Hammer Boys. If their clients are mostly poor who they hand free meat out to, then who are they charging 50 Gold Pieces to 'beat-up' people? That's more like minor noble's amount of gold. 50 gold to anyone else is like a year's pay! BTW I looked up the old NPC Hireling pay per day in the old D&D3.5 DM guide, and there's no way on those wages can anyone afford to live in even a apartment suite, or studio in West Dock, much less anywhere else. Any thoughts?
Upon exiting the Old Fishery:
My players decided to take Yargin, Hookshanks and Gaedren prisoner (Giggles went to go visit the jigsaw shark with a chandelier wrapped around his ankles) and bring the children directly to an orphanage after completing the Old Fishery only to step outside and have all hell break loose. They are now running through the streets with 20-ish scared children and three prisoners, attempting to escape the rioting mobs and Hellknight patrols.
I decided to give them the choice of the 3 closest orphanages in Midlands (Guide to Korvosa, p. 32): The Slopes, Pillar Hill and High Bridge.
The Slopes would be the closest but the hardest to get to with a wagon full of prisoners/children and no pull animal. It would also be where they encounter the Mad Prophet.
Pillar Hill would be be next and have the Meet the Mob encounter in it.
High Bridge would feature the Drunken Guard event, since it is closest to the Citadel.
Which ever one is chosen, the others' events occur after the children have been dropped off but before the prisoners are turned over at the Citadel. Imps and Dragons also can occur at this time with the imps discovering the prisoners and trying to free them. This allows for more imps to be used because they won't be directly in combat until the house drakes show up.
Regarding the new hardcover version.
I noticed there is a Story Reward for each Lamm's Lamb which survives a fight as well as a separate rewards for finding each of them a home at an orphanage. Just to confirm this is two sets separate story rewards and not the same thing said twice?
Secondly it says the when Bloo barks it attracts the attention of the others in the Fishery. Do Hookshanks and Giggles both stir up their orphans to come investigate as well or come alone?
Thirdly regarding the reefclaws in the sewers under All the Worlds Meat, is this an encounter just "if they look" or is there a design that we should guide our players to look there. I feel there isn't much which really makes it stand out as a location they can interact with.
Lastly I am confused as to which outcome handling Devargo is expected to happen. It seems everything is set up for the PCs to win him over and get the documents without a fight, however there are more XP/Asset gains (including off the records reward from Cressida) from actually killing him.
My group is most likely going to have a Paladin and a LG Cleric in and I get the feeling they're going to try to be less kill crazy this campaign meaning I worry they will lose out here. Did any one else change this in any way to have a more favour for not just fighting him?
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Just wondering did any GM's do anything with the ring found in Gaedren's treasure with “For Emmah—the light in my nights” engraved on it?
Knowing my group they're going to look to return this ring rather than just sell it, would be nice to have a quest associated with it, wondering if anyone else had a nice story to tell from it.
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Just wondering did any GM's do anything with the ring found in Gaedren's treasure with “For Emmah—the light in my nights” engraved on it?
Knowing my group they're going to look to return this ring rather than just sell it, would be nice to have a quest associated with it, wondering if anyone else had a nice story to tell from it.
I have a story to tell about it -- but it certainly isn't a nice one.
Depends on if you see Gaedren Lamm as Fagin-with-a-Crocodile, or as a less cartoony and more realistic villain.
From the 3.5 CotCT Player's Guide
"Unhappy Childhood: Or perhaps you, like most of Gaedren’s slaves, were merely a child of the street who succumbed to his promise of regular meals and a roof in return for what he said would be “a little light work.”
How is a monster like Gaedren really going to make coin using child slaves? As "pickpockets"? Really? Is that their most regular use? Wouldn't it be more profitable and less risky for these children to be used for something far more base and regular in its income, than that? Wouldn't THAT be why you would hate him?
And if Emmah was one of his girls and received a ring as a gift from a John with an inscription for her as a token of his affection - would Gaedren let her keep it?
It's certainly the story that fits the facts best; however, I wouldn't call it a "nice story".
Did a quick Google search but only found the question from 2008 with no answer.
What's the height of Vreeg's room in the Dead Warrens? The books states all rooms are 6ft tall unless otherwise noted, but the description of Vreeg's combat tactics says he use's flight to stay out of melee combat.
Is it worth making the room slightly taller at say 15' so he can stay above everyone with a sword, or is that making a potentially tough fight even tougher.
Make his room slightly taller so he can make use of his strategy. Specially if your players are resourceful.
He has some nasty resources to give PCs a tough fight, but if they can close into melee he won't be able to do a thing.
I don't know what is your group composition, but by that level they might already have some way of dealing with flying enemies so let them be clever and find a way of dealing with him.
(Said that, if I recall correctly, my ninja wasn't able to do a lot against flying enemies at that point, but we had an archer bard with us)
For the Old Fishery:
Unless I am missing something the book does not really suggest how the NPCs should react to the PCs walking into the fishery. The implication is they should just attack them on site.
Whilst I think this works fine for Giggles and Yargin (as in both cases they would clearly be trespassing), it is unclear how Hookshanks is supposed to react to PCs walking through the front door.
In my game they walked in asking for some dock dumplings (which he did not believe). I simply made him tell them to go away (and come back later if they really did want food).
One of the character walked in and asked if he was being threatened so I then had Hookshanks stab him.
I think it was reasonable but it is not really clear how the business operates. I suppose thinking about it they make the dumplings for certain points in the day, load them into carts and send some kids around to sell them? And that it really isn't something you can walk in and buy (especially when you don't look like the usual clientele...)
Always leave it to PCs to throw curve balls pretty much straight away...
Does Amin Jalento have any part to play later in the AP, beyond the 'Meet the Mob' event?
We've got a Kintargin dandy in the party, and I figure he could be harassed directly, but if Amin's important later, then I'd better not mix it up.
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Does Amin Jalento have any part to play later in the AP, beyond the 'Meet the Mob' event?
We've got a Kintargin dandy in the party, and I figure he could be harassed directly, but if Amin's important later, then I'd better not mix it up.
He shows up again
Does Amin Jalento have any part to play later in the AP, beyond the 'Meet the Mob' event?
We've got a Kintargin dandy in the party, and I figure he could be harassed directly, but if Amin's important later, then I'd better not mix it up.
He appears again but his role is not relevant enough so do what you have to do.
My GM totally changed him to make him a more relevant NPC and as he was with the party he never played his role later.We didn't notice it.
Does Amin Jalento have any part to play later in the AP, beyond the 'Meet the Mob' event?
We've got a Kintargin dandy in the party, and I figure he could be harassed directly, but if Amin's important later, then I'd better not mix it up.
He appears again but his role is not relevant enough so do what you have to do.
My GM totally changed him to make him a more relevant NPC and as he was with the party he never played his role later.
We didn't notice it.
I was planning on making him a potential red herring for Blackjack's identity (along with several others) before my game crumbled early doors
About to run the Shingles chase and I have previously purchased the paizo gamemastery rooftop tiles.
After reading mixed reviews of various shingle runs with the chase mechanics - I'm thinking of running it as normal comabat/movement.
I will still add in skill checks to progress past certain obstacles but figure it will be quicker then explaining the chase rules to my group of 6-7 (I know too many) and more enjoyable for a group with low skill points (they love armour)
Anyone see any problems with this or any advice?
I have been feeding my players various bits of information about the Korvosan hierarchy of power - ruler, castle seneschal, the two military groups plus Order of the Nail, the arbiters, the Peer Review and other noble houses, etc. - drawn mainly from the "Guide to Korvosa".
So now we're near the end of Book 1 (there is basically only the Dead Warrens and execution left). The PCs have just asked Field Marshal Cressida Kroft why she hasn't appointed a new Seneschal since Neolandus K. has disappeared. According to the GtK, "when a seneschal dies or retires, the field marshal of the Korvosan Guard chooses his replacement from among the leadership of the Sable Company".
So why hasn't she?
I know that the bloatmage, Togomor, is first mentioned near the beginning of Book 2 (in relation to the rise of the Grey Maidens), where he is described as "one of the queen’s powerful new allies, the bloatmage Togomor, who has taken up the role of castle seneschal in the absence of Neolandus". Why didn't Kroft do anything to pre-empt/stop this development?
I'm thinking of using Kroft's general LN nature, her relationship with the church of Abadar (who appear to support the queen), her belief that the queen is just naïve and ignorant (as opposed to malicious or evil), and her general desire not to rock the political boat when the threat of budget cut-backs is looming over both her own Korvosan Guard and Endrin's Sable Company.
But it still does beg the question: why hasn't Kroft chosen a new Castel Seneschal yet?
Any good explanations from my fellow GMs? Or from those who wrote/developed this AP?
Maybe an old law requires that a new seneschal can't be appointed unless there is proof that the old seneschal is dead or has been missing for 7 years and a day?
That and the fact that the Seneschal is only missing. Keep in mind that the inner circle (likely including Kroft) knows that the king is growing ill, and the Seneschal just merely goes missing right before the king fully dies. Not only does this maybe suggest that the Seneschal is simply fleeing as the cause of the King's death (granted it seems Eodred died of natural causes up until Ileosa accuses Trinia of poisoning him), but if Kroft were to suddenly appoint a new person who can just overthrow the new Queen, that in of it self would seem like an overt power play.
Kroft's best hope is that she can divert a few guardsmen after the riots have been dealt with to find him and figure out what happened (not that she even suspects the Seneschal knows that Ileosa is the mastermind). The fact that the Queen chooses her *own* seneschal should also come as a massive surprise, because its way out of the line with tradition and proper order, and nobody contests it except the guy she proceeds to lobotomize with his own crossbow bolt.
Side note, the announcement of Togomore as Seneschal originally came after book 2/at the start of book 3, after the party should know Ileosa is responsible for the plague. Seems like this is another change that I would revert back to the original printing.
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I just started running the "expanded and revised hardcover edition of Paizo’s Curse of the Crimson Throne Adventure Path" on Roll20. I thought I'd post a few of the adaptions I've made to the AP's plot, in case any other GMs like my ideas.
_
To begin with, I like adding foreshadowing into my games. First, I totally stole Charles Evans 25's suggestion of having Gaedren Lamm's soul stolen by Scarwall when the PCs 'kill' him in part one of Edge of Anarchy. As he died, Gaedren's spirit came out of his corpse and became a spectre (there are several unnamed spectres in Scarwall, now one of them is named Gaedren). As it prepared to attack the PCs, a giant ghostly dragon's claw (the same size as Gaedren) appeared from out of a ghostly portal, grabbed Gaedren-spectre, and hauled him off through the ghostly portal. My revenge-driven PCs were apoplectic, but my players loved it.
Second, I plan on having "Meliya Arkona" encounter the PCs, somewhere around "All the World's Meat" while they're nearby. Maybe they'll talk while the PCs are scouting the place, maybe she'll escape out the window half naked when the PCs interrupt her and Verik scoodly-pooping. We'll see what opportunities present themselves.
Third, playing off the idea presented by Tels, I plan on having the corpses of several dead failed Gray Maidens be found as raw materials in Rolth Lamm's Dead Warrens.
_
Moving on, I like to connect my PCs to the story more personally than the default plot will allow. One PC is Trinia Sabor’s first cousin (their mothers were sisters). I replaced Amin Jalento with another PC's NPC noble father. Another PC used to work for Devargo Barvasi. Another's dead Lost Love was Sabina Merrin's identical twin sister (they were estranged, and the dead Lost Love never mentioned she had a sister to the PC). Another was Framed, and Cressida Kroft was the one who cleared them. Another PC with a tribal background had traveled on the road to Korvosa with Thousand Bones.
These connections are in addition to the ones already built into the story, like Vencarlo Orisini scoping out one of the PCs to become the next Blackjack or the PC with the Harrowed feat inheriting Zarella Esmeranda's harrow deck.
_
Finally, I want to encourage the players to "take ownership" of the city of Korvosa, to become invested in the place's survival. Sure, I could have just said "this story works best if your characters are invested in saving Korvosa" during character creation (I've done that before, and will likely do so again in a future game). However, this time I wanted to make things more difficult for myself, and see if I could do it more organically, as a storytelling challenge to myself.
I'm going to try two things. First, I created a sub-plot where Lictor Severs DiViri shows up unannounced during the PC's audience with Queen Ileosa (where they're returning her brooch). He'll declare she needs to marry him so his Hellknights can return order to the city. The great thing about his suggestion is that the Lictor really isn't trying to increase his personal power or bed the widowed Queen. He really thinks this is the best plan for restoring law and order to a city on the Edge of Anarchy — and he really can't understand why everyone else isn't supporting his brilliant plan. Hopefully, the PCs will jump to the Queen's defense. After the Lictor leaves (frustrated by the PCs efforts), the Queen sends the PCs to Field Marshal Cressida Kroft, asking them to help her "return order to this great city". This can set up several suspenseful face-downs with Order of the Nail in the city streets; Hellknights who are sure the PCs are agents of chaos because they didn't support the Lictor's plan.
Second, I plan on borrowing that "you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us" scene from the first Tobey Maguire Spider-Man. The PCs are in one of the aforementioned facedowns with the Hellknights, after the PCs have completed a few of Kroft's missions, and the regular city-folk of Korvosa take the PCs side, forcing the Hellknights to back down. Hopefully, the combination of protecting the Queen from the Lictor, the added overarching villains of the Hellknights, and the moment of shared comradery with the Korvosan's all work together to make the PCs feel a sense of ownership… this is their city.
-sono finito
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At the suggestion of a friend who's run CotCT, I'm going to have the NPCs Ishani Dhatri (the priest of Abadar from book 2) & Keppira d’Bear (the high priestess of Pharasma from book 4) be visiting Field Marshal Cressida Kroft, on separate occasions, when the PCs visit her to get (or turn in) quests. Kroft will be getting lesser restoration spells cast on her by the clerics, each unaware Kroft is also getting spells from the other. Kroft is using the extra time going without sleep is affording her to barely keep Korvosa from tearing itself apart, and hiding the help she is getting from the other cleric because both clerics would probably stop casting lesser restoration on Kroft if they knew she wasn't sleeping at all, rather than the every-other-night Kroft has led each cleric to believe. This introduces Ishani and Keppira to the PCs before they become plot relevant.
Additionally, although the first meeting with Kroft will be in Citadel Volshyenek, most of their later meetings with her will be at emergencies out in the city that needed her presence. This illustrates to the PCs just how overstressed the Korvosan Guard is, and how desperate Kroft is for all the help the PCs can give her. She's not just sitting around her office waiting on the PCs to turn in quests, she's a 'real' person dealing with 'real' (but lower-level) problems. Having her juggle getting emergency care to the victims of a tenement fire while asking the PCs to deal with the King of Spiders helps to "show, don't tell" how over-worked she is.
- sono finito
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My group finished CotCT a couple weekends ago. Everyone had a good time playing it. We took about 4 years to play through the whole ting, although we did take off for a year to play another adventure between Chapters 3 & 4.
My only criticism is that the plot and Ileosa's plan is a little convoluted and it takes a while for all the pieces to come together. That was exacerbated by running the campaign over several years and taking a break in the middle, so some of that criticism was a self-inflicted wound.
I had fun running it and my players had fun playing it, so good times all around. Abomination Vaults (a 1e conversion) is next!
-Skeld
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Congrats on finishing it! The group I'm running for has just started Chapter 5. They're pretty adept at dealing with foes, but internal dissension has been a problem, so fingers-crossed they keep it together long enough to finish.
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We finished Edge of Anarchy a week ago, and so far the “every PC has a personal link to the plot” additions went over very well.
The extra scene with Lictor Severs DiViri when the PCs turn in Queen Ileosa's brooch has worked wonders on making the PCs feel like they should be on her side. Her attempted execution of Trinia Sabor was viewed as “someone must be giving her bad advice”, not “she’s a bad person”.
I modified Blackjack’s escape with Trinia. Instead of it ending with them climbing over a wall, Blackjack grandiosely pulls out a “scroll” and reads off it, causing them to disappear in a cloud of smoke. The PCs were unable to Spellcraft what spell it was, because it was a smokestick. Blackjack and Trinia hid below the stage she was to be executed on, put on disguises, and walked out with the rest of the crowd.
I've decided to run Portent's Peril between books one and two. Anyone know of any other Korvosa-specific scenarios that could be added to CotCT?
This thread has a few Korvosa-related adventures in it.
Hello everyone, I hope there are still active players around to help me ^^'
I am GMing curse of the crimson throne, we are close to the end of Edge of Anarchy (and we are having LOT of fun). I have a nice party of 5 good players. Let me explain my issue.
The PJs just captured Trinia after the chase in the Shingles. They brougth her back to the gard, with a invisible spell effective so she will not be noticed (I bend to that idea they had), and they convinced Kressida Croft that the guard was not a safe place to keep her. They are convinced that she is innocent (they witnessed a testimony she did to Cressida and Vencarlo in a zone of Truth).
They took her back to their place, a gang headquarter in Old Korvosa (they are playing more or less Loyal/Neutral/Evil-ish). This was to give a few days to Vencarlo to find her a better place to hide her.
But... then... one of my PC sent a letter to the Queen herself saying more or less "I made my own investigations and the person you suspect is not guilty of the murder of the king"
It's very aligned with his backstory. He's an orphean changeling raised by the Senechal, used as a assassin loyal to the crown (well, I expect he will review his position soon or late on this very last point). Ilesoa is trying to kill the Senechal, but, so far, she does not cared about his changeling adopted son who knows nothing. But I could figure that she will react quite aggressively to the missive, right?
The most logical move I see from her is to send one red Mantis assassin to be sure this annoying Changeling assassin issue is solved.
They would have to flee and they would loose probably they headquarter, maybe also Trinia will be killed, maybe also some PC, so it could be a dangerous game.
But on the other hand, the PC move has been done, and I think they will enjoy that it has some consequences.
What do you think:
- Is sending a red mantis assassin the more natural move from the queen? - Am I risking a TPK (5 players level 4)?
- Do you have any idea for awesome consequences ?
Another idea would be to call him to an secret audiance with the queen, where she explains that she has no other option to calm the town. And I could include also the idea of Daneel about the queen:
“someone must be giving her bad advice”, not “she’s a bad person”.
I also like the idea to keep a bit longer some ambiguity around the queen actions.
For secret Audience, I would discord and do it before the next session, so it stays secret to the others players (not only PC).
I would imagine "realistically" such a letter would just be one of hundreds of leads that would be poring in. Every shopkeeper and their uncle will swear they've seen Trinia, and it's not like the queen is personally reading correspondence from strangers in the street. It would probably all get dumped on investigators working for the Korvosan Guard or (later) the Gray Maidens. Also remember that Ileosa doesn't really care about finding Trinia. The important thing is to ensure people think the king's "real killer" has been either a) executed or b) fled.
Thank you for your answer :)
I also though that indeed the letter would be "lost" in many of the same kind, but I thought it would be better not to ignore the idea. Also, the PC is not really "a stranger in the street", he's the son of the Senechal and a tool loyal to the crown (hidden assassin for delicate matters). I would assume that he's able to contact some people in the castle, and that Ileosa is either willing to supress potential opponents, either willing to keep her "tool" at hand. But your answer is definitively a good escape way for me, and it totally makes sense.
Actually, it makes me thinking that it would be cool to use this opportunity to develop a bit the potical atmosphere of Korvosa, the tensions between the Queen, the Guard, the Senechal,...
So to go more to the polical idea that the assassin idea. They also will have plenty of fighting in the dead warrens just after this (last sessions was more about social interaction with Devargo than figthing, so I am a bit afraid to make too much social interactions (and not enought figthing, but I think it will ok).
I allowed this back story of "Hidden assassin of the king", now I have to deal with the consequences. I have the impression it would be frustrating for the player to just ignore the letter ^^'
I would say have Ileosa try to win the seneschal's son over, either by your "it's for the best of the city" or other arguments along the lines of "it can only be her, it is not your fault for being fooled" gaslighting or "then she can stand trial and prove her innocence" where even the seneschal might be granted special defense over Trinia. (Note that normally justice in Korvosa is handled by an arbiter acting as judge, prosecutor, and defense, so the player should realize this significance, and maybe even Ileosa leans into "it is only fair for such a great crime, and can only ensure that we find the true culprit...") You should ensure that the player gets the impression that Ileosa just wants him around as a show of solidarity of her own rule with the missing Seneschal, after all, this is the intrigue portion of the AP.
This sounds really cool, thanks! I think I'll go that way, I'm convinced :)
The next session is planned the 6th May, I keep you guys posted!
I think one of the biggest things missing from these adventures is the hell knights of Korvosa. It is possibly that this letter got back to them and they are investigating the matter. Personally I would avoid the mantis because it is a cool encounter running into them at Vencarlos place for the first time.
A few Hellknight investigators would get the PC’s knowing they are not in Kansas anymore and still keeps the cleans hands “clean”.
It's a good point for the Mantis encounter. Better to keep it new for when it will happens at Vencarlo's place.
I also noticed that the Hell Knigts are not really there, I'm trying to add them here and there. I sincerely like the idea, but I don't really see why and how they would have intercepted the letter. Generally speaking, I tend to try to keep explanantions simple and intuitive (which is sometimes tricky ^^'), so I would tend to go for "the queen try to win him back".
And why not having the hellknights investigating around the PCs anyway. The Hellknights were also trying to catch Trinia when the PCs went to her place, so they can have been spotted. This is more than probable, given that one of them is a flying tieffling :D
Thank you all :) I'm so grateful for all the good ideas on this forum!
I look at it as above, the queen does not check her mail. It would go to her underlings who would fire it off to the necessary departments. The queen is busy right now with her other goals, and you will quickly realize that if she sits on her hands then none of the timeline makes sense. My group is in skeletons of scarwall right now and it has been just over two months of in game time. That is short order to accomplish all of the things she needs to accomplish in this adventure path.
The biggest is how to get the grey maidens, hired, trained, and equipped in the time between edge and seven. This would keep the queen busy, really busy. With making wishes from her genie for armor and swords to dealing with the cult of urgathoa and the mantis.
While I agree that the logical outcome is for Ileosa to be too busy to pay any attention to the PCs, I'm going to argue in favor of the exact opposite my colleagues have suggested, and say that she should respond to this personally, for three reasons.
One, Ileosa does have a big problem during Edge of Anarchy which is that public perception is very much against her, and this is not helped at all by her being one of the main suspects in poisoning Eodred. She does not yet have the power base and public support to really ignore this right now, like she will be able to once the Grey Maidens are established and she has the city behind her due to the plague and she becomes invincible via the Crown of Fangs. This is why she framed Trinia for the murder in the first place, because SOMEONE needs to be held accountable for it, and there are perhaps say a dozen people who had enough access to Eodred to poison him - one of which who is Ileosa, one of which is Trinia, and one of which is Senaschal Neolandus who is missing/presumed dead at this point, (and then there's the actual person who did the poisoning, Venster, albeit at Ileosa's behest, but it's unclear how many people know Eodred's half-brother even exists). You can also throw in some random new NPC maid at the palace that you can make up to take Trinia's place on the execution block as Ileosa's back-up plan due to Trinia being uncaught. So, any news about Trinia, the king's designated assassin, is going to be VERY MUCH of interest to Ileosa at this point.
Two, the player has a plausible reason for his letter essentially "jumping the line" and getting to Ileosa, thanks to his connection to Seneschal Neolandus, which Ileosa could plausibly think would make the PC of use to her politically. Particularly if she can use her femme fatale wiles to wrap him around her finger by playing up the "oh poor little me, I'm just a helpless and naive young woman and everyone hates me for no good reason, can't you please help you you big strong hero?" card. And, this player did something on their initiative, and acted potentially against the party's wishes, which could cause some intra-party drama if it gets out that he was the one who flagged Ileosa that the party had Trinia in custody. While you want to minimize outright disruptive or antisocial behavior, generally you do want to reward players for doing things in-character and giving you opportunities to expand the story in interesting ways like this.
Third, expanding on that last point a little bit, your player has handed you the opportunity to let the PCs interact with your villain in a relatively safe manner. It can be really hard to forge a personal connection with the villain in Pathfinder, generally because one side will try to kill the other on-sight. And in Pathfinder either the BBEG is so high-level that they just roll over the plucky low-level PCs in that situation, or the PCs get lucky/are "high enough" level/have a plan to pull off an upset, and then your BBEG is dead way too early. So generally Paizo sticks their BBEGs off in some castle as far away from the spotlight as possible overseeing their evil empire, and at best the BEEG has heard of the PCs ruining their plans and vice-versa. In this case you don't have that problem (yet) - the PCs have no reason to attack the queen unless they've read the AP and know she's the BBEG, or they want to be disruptive jerks and try their own hand at regicide. In which case you just have Sabina the 14th level fighter literally slap the silly out of them, but it SHOULDN'T come to that.
So you have Ileosa meet with the players, and explain the situation to them in the hopes of getting them on her side, and give up Trinia to stand trial (a trial which she will rig in various ways against Trinia as detailed further below). SOMEBODY has to answer for Eodred's death, and right now Ileosa is one of the chief suspects due to her access to Eodred. The only other people that fit this bill are presumed dead (Neolandus), have been cleared already, or are Ileosa, Trinia, and this as-yet unnamed maid who will eventually take Trinia's place on the chopping block. She doesn't volunteer information about Venster, pretending to know nothing about him, but since she didn't poison Eodred directly she can basically lie truthfully that she did not poison/murder Eodred. So those three people are the suspect list that Ileosa provides them, and if they investigate they can potentially find planted evidence pointing at the maid (thereby making them complicit in the frame-job there), or possibly Venster's existence there-by giving them an out (or at least a potential other suspect they can throw out even if there is no body for them to find).
From there, the players can potentially be convinced to hand over Trinia, or launch their own (guided by Ileosa) investigation of the murder. However, they should be made aware at this point that the Hellknights have crashed into Trinia's apartment after they and Trinia fled, and they found potentially damning evidence underneath the floorboards, in the form of a vial of poison (the same used to kill Eodred). If they go back to Trinia's apartment to investigate that further, they may be able to learn that there was a strange strawberry-haired woman who was seen in the building at some point (presumably after Trinia and the players left, but before the Hellknights) arrived. This is Cinnabar, who was planting the evidence to further incriminate Trinia, and possibly "arrange a suicide" for Trinia for the Hellknights to find, ruined by the PCs arriving first. That at least gives you a sighting of Cinnabar so the players know there's another party out there somewhere, planting evidence and trying to frame Trinia, even if Cinnabar is far too good for them to actually track down and deal with right now.
If the players bring Trinia in, then a trial is arranged which you can play out for them or not at your preference (given you'll have to make it up whole-cloth). The court will start biased against Trinia just on principle and with an overall pressure to "just get this over with so the city can move on". If you are running the hard-cover and want to introduce Zenobia Zenderholm pre-undeadification, here is a good place to slot her in as the presiding judge, and despite her reputation as a firm-but-fair judge, perhaps here as a sign of her wavering devoation to Abadar she caves to political pressure in selling Trinia down the river in a sham trial. Once Trinia is found guilty then the execution proceeds as planned, and the party starts to get a sense that there's something foul afoot in the city of Korvosa.
Another trick you can do here though to potentially throw the players off Ileosa's scent is to introduce Glorio Arkona early. Have him introduced as an up-and-coming adviser to the queen who is clearly angling for the newly open(?) position of Senaschal. Play up the "evil goatee adviser" trope with him, and while the payoff is that yes, he is indeed very evil after all, Queen Ileosa is ALSO evil as it turns out. He's the one giving all the advice to Queen Ileosa about how to handle the Trinia/Eodred's murder situation, it's his warehouse that the plague doctors get based out of, etc. etc. Everything you can do to set him up to be the evil mastermind after all, only to turn things on their head in book three when the players have the potential to work with him against Ileosa in a sort of fre-enemies alliance (if they don't just kill him on-sight too).
Basically, the goal here is to get the players to not quite trust Ileosa, but consider at least the possibility that maybe she is just being manipulated into making evil decisions by the people around her. And then play with that "is she the evil mastermind or isn't she?" as much as you like until you get to the end of Book Two/Start of Book Three when the mask falls off and oh look, the queen really is that evil. Hopefully, if you can get at least some doubt in your players' minds, that'll make the reveal seem like a betrayal of their trust, and players tend to take that VERY seriously, so it'll have an even greater impact.
Alternatively, if you still want to run with your Red Mantis assassin comes in to clean up the mess, I would probably change the nature of the encounter. Rather than "clean this up, kill EVERYONE" at Vencarlo's, the order from Queen Ileosa is more "go fetch me my scapegoat, I don't care about any casualties, just don't make a big mess that'll get into the papers". So instead of silence all witnesses, the Red Mantis are just there to grab Trinia and get out. For this, I would use Cinnabar herself, as she is high enough level to laugh off any of the 4th level PCs attempts to stop her, *and* she has enough levels in Red Mantis Assassin to summons a swarm of 1d4+1 giant mantises to assault the party as a distraction while she effortlessly bops Trinia on the head and slings her over her shoulder to make the getaway. Those mantises (CR 3) are enough to be dangerous, so will provide the party a good fight, but without completely overwhelming them the way a 10th or 11th level assassin would, likely one-shotting at least one party member as they pop out of stealth to begin the fight. And, having Cinnabar here gives the players a recognizable face (a strawberry-haired woman) to remember, and hopefully go "oh s@~*, it's her again! LET'S GET HER!" when she shows up in Book 4 to come after them directly.
His group already knows that Trinia is innocent, this party member wants to talk with the Queen to straighten things out but why not talk to his adoptive father the seneschal instead? The seneschal is missing right now, is he not worried about this fact? Who trained him to be an assassin, Neolandus? Who was he working for?
You could also have Sabine visit him as mentioned above but instead to gather her own information about what is going on. Shirley she must doubt the fact this painter girl poisoned the king a little.
I just remember that my party did not suspect the queen after meeting her for the first time but then became super focused on her, to the point where they were missing the big picture trying to make their own conclusion to the crime.
Thanks for the detailed answers!
I think I'll go for the queen audience, because I really like the idea of developping the relionship with the queen, and paint her as potentially not-so-evil for now. And indeed, if they buy it, I think the revelation will be awesome. I like it, and I think my players will really enjoy it too (the audience and the "twist" beginning of book 3).
I like the idea of introducing Glorio Arkona and Cinnabar early in the campaign. And Sabina also could definitively play a role and interact with the PC.
I think sending them back to investigate more, with some "help" from the queen friends if needed, and then assist or play a role in the trial is also a nice idea.
Maybe the players will notice that the timing is not really realistic, that the queen is supposed not to have time to do everything she does, but they will be ok with small unconsistencies if it helps the story anyway. They're going easy on me :) So let's go for what we will enjoy the most!