Are we going to see more Male character iconics?
To me the ratio is still WAY-WAY off.
I know the whole general magazine marketing drill - women on the cover of magazines sell more than men on the cover of magazines, yatta,yatta,yatta.
Putting hot chicks on the cover of magazines to sell more magazines is a marketing strategy and I don’t really (in general) have a problem with that.
If that’s why the skewed representation (4 women/3 men) - just let me know and I can deal with that.
If not;
I would just like a “realistic” representation of an adventuring party and a proper representation of pre-generated characters (the icons are used as pre-gen characters for all GameMastery modules).
D&D groups (D&D players in whole) are at best - 80% male and 20% female.
I would imagine if “D&D adventuring” were real; the ratio of adventures would also be at best 80% male and 20% female.
Please… I am just asking the folks at Paizo (or the powers-that-be, who decided on the 4 women/3 men distribution of iconics) on this one.
I’m really not interested in other posters using this post to flame/troll/debate how adventuring parties should/could/would exist with 90% women ----- This one is just common sense
BTW Paizo - the way the current women iconics are portrayed in the artwork so far is great!! (real adventuring clothes & gear- no chainmail bikinis).
I’d just like a proper representation/ratio.
Thanks for listening,
GG
Director of Games
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Are we going to see more Male character iconics?
To me the ratio is still WAY-WAY off.I know the whole general magazine marketing drill - women on the cover of magazines sell more than men on the cover of magazines, yatta,yatta,yatta.
Putting hot chicks on the cover of magazines to sell more magazines is a marketing strategy and I don’t really (in general) have a problem with that.
If that’s why the skewed representation (4 women/3 men) - just let me know and I can deal with that.If not;
I would just like a “realistic” representation of an adventuring party and a proper representation of pre-generated characters (the icons are used as pre-gen characters for all GameMastery modules).D&D groups (D&D players in whole) are at best - 80% male and 20% female.
I would imagine if “D&D adventuring” were real; the ratio of adventures would also be at best 80% male and 20% female.Please… I am just asking the folks at Paizo (or the powers-that-be, who decided on the 4 women/3 men distribution of iconics) on this one.
I’m really not interested in other posters using this post to flame/troll/debate how adventuring parties should/could/would exist with 90% women ----- This one is just common senseBTW Paizo - the way the current women iconics are portrayed in the artwork so far is great!! (real adventuring clothes & gear- no chainmail bikinis).
I’d just like a proper representation/ratio.
Thanks for listening,
GG
I believe that the mix evens out to around 50-50 with the iconics we have planned. It just starts out a bit female heavy.
Jason Bulmahn
GameMastery Brand Manager
D&D groups (D&D players in whole) are at best - 80% male and 20% female.
I've got a 60% /40% split, so perhaps your numbers are too self-focused.
D&D groups (D&D players in whole) are at best - 80% male and 20% female.I've got a 60% /40% split, so perhaps your numbers are too self-focused.
I have more female players than male. I expect that we're all a little different, and I'm fine with Paizo doing whatever they want proportion-wise.
And, yes, I do prefer looking at women on the covers than at men. :D
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Creative Director
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As has been mentioned above... by the time all 12 of our iconics are on covers in Pathfinder 12, six will be men and six will be women.
I decided to go with a mostly-female first four because I'd rarely (never?) seen that done before. All/mostly male parties are boring and cliched. A mostly female party though? That's not been done to death, AND it's pretty cool. And refreshing from the tired-old standard adventuring party mix, if you ask me.
In any case, Pathfinder 5 and 6 have male iconics on the cover, so as Mike says above, be patient.
WAR has Fabio coming over to pose for his next cover.Or that's what Fabio thinks... Unfortunately, WAR has dastardly plans for him!
Just like that amusement park. BAM! Goose to the face!
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D&D groups (D&D players in whole) are at best - 80% male and 20% female.I've got a 60% /40% split, so perhaps your numbers are too self-focused.I have more female players than male. I expect that we're all a little different, and I'm fine with Paizo doing whatever they want proportion-wise.
And, yes, I do prefer looking at women on the covers than at men. :D
I'm with Tbug here - in the past 5 years at our college gaming tables it's been 16 females to 7 males to 1 both (sorry don't know a PC term for it)
If not;
I would just like a “realistic” representation of an adventuring party and a proper representation of pre-generated characters (the icons are used as pre-gen characters for all GameMastery modules).D&D groups (D&D players in whole) are at best - 80% male and 20% female.
I would imagine if “D&D adventuring” were real; the ratio of adventures would also be at best 80% male and 20% female.
Wow... that's not offensive at all. Especially in a world in which males and females are supposed to be equals (unlike our own). It really would be best if we inserted as much prejudice as possible... good call. [/sarcasm]
Sean Mahoney
If not;
I would just like a “realistic” representation of an adventuring party and a proper representation of pre-generated characters (the icons are used as pre-gen characters for all GameMastery modules).D&D groups (D&D players in whole) are at best - 80% male and 20% female.
I would imagine if “D&D adventuring” were real; the ratio of adventures would also be at best 80% male and 20% female.Wow... that's not offensive at all. Especially in a world in which males and females are supposed to be equals (unlike our own). It really would be best if we inserted as much prejudice as possible... good call.
Sean Mahoney
Where is the prejudice in gig-gilf's statement? Merely pointing out that more D&D players are male than are female (and the implicit idea that a majority of people prefer to play characters of their own sex) does not seem to be a prejudiced statement (to me, al least). Am I missing something there?
I know that you can change the sex of the pregen character, but that makes all that great character artwork not look like your character.
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As has been mentioned above... by the time all 12 of our iconics are on covers in Pathfinder 12, six will be men and six will be women.
I decided to go with a mostly-female first four because I'd rarely (never?) seen that done before. All/mostly male parties are boring and cliched. A mostly female party though? That's not been done to death, AND it's pretty cool. And refreshing from the tired-old standard adventuring party mix, if you ask me.
In any case, Pathfinder 5 and 6 have male iconics on the cover, so as Mike says above, be patient.
So what comes after iconic 12? That is: Who gets to grace the covers from then on?
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They've mentioned that when Runelords ends it won't be the last of the 4 initial Iconics and that we'll likely see then again, together or mixed in with other Iconics.
I'd bet we'll see them on the cover again, maybe in pairs. I could see..
Valeros and Seelah back-to-back swords readied.
Seoni and Ezren surrounded in a miasma of energy, fending off arcane attack.
Harsk and Merisiel standing side by side looking not too happy.
Granted, I'm only basing this one my own personal experience, but I'm not sure how the male to female ratio between iconic characters (or any other characters) is all that important.
In my gaming experience, I've only ever gamed with two females. One of which is my wife and that's only been two sessions so far as I've attempted to indoctrinate her into the habit. But, seeing as there's been a lack of estrogen from a player perspective . . . the ratio for character gender is still about 50:50 for the groups I've been in.
I'm not sure if my experiences are on par with the norm for the habit, but I think that paizo's decision to make sure there is an even mix in the iconics is a good one. And putting the female characters up front definately can't hurt sales.
As for the character on Pathfinder #13 . . . I thought I remember reading somewhere it was going to be a CG Drow Dual-Weilding Scimitars.
A mostly female party though? That's not been done to death, AND it's pretty cool.
It is quite cool.
But please: If the Barbarian should turn out female, don't give her a Chakra. And don't let her travel around with a female bard using a quarterstaff. ;-)
From my experience, I find thatthe majority of players in dnd are male with my group being 100% male.
But then again my survey is not totally represetative as I only have 2 buddies and my brother in my group :)
4 women/3 men does not seem to me that way-way off ratio...sure, such high female representation is uncommon, but uncommon is good.
Not that I wouldn't mind seeing more of male character iconics, ifyouknowwhatImean :)
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the way the current women iconics are portrayed in the artwork so far is great!!
The other day my best friend's kids were looking at Gallery of Evil and the eight year old girl remarked twice on how the sorceress was half naked. So I had to try and explain that people do this because they think it will sell more... That was a bit weird. Specially since she made her first comment after about ten seconds of looking at the product. Makes me wonder how conditioned we all are.
Makes me wonder how conditioned we all are.
Conditioned? Get out of here. I have things to do.
*must....buy...nekkid..*
;-P
But please: If the Barbarian should turn out female, don't give her a Chakra. And don't let her travel around with a female bard using a quarterstaff. ;-)Lucky for us the 3E Chakra sucks compared to the AD&D version and no one in their right mind would use one. :)
No one in their right mind would run around half naked in the frozen tundra. I think I remember they had some of that in the show. I didn't pay too much attention to the landscape, though.
Not that I wouldn't mind seeing more of male character iconics, ifyouknowwhatImean :)
I gotcha. ;)
Mmm...man candy...:P
Like this guy?
That'll work - for now. :)
Mmm...man candy...:PLike this guy?
Seems that Paizo's short on candy ;-)
From now on, the dwarven ranger iconic is nicknamed Candy!
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It's kinda ironic, most of my gaming friends play assorted male and female characters, since most of us are old and married and could give a crap what other people think about our manliness at this age.
But we've still found little biases that creep in. One of my friends was talking to me about how it always seems like when he uses NPCs or PCs, the Clerics are female, the Fighters are male and the Wizards and Rogues are 50/50 either way. When I play a male Cleric, he always refers to the character as 'her' without thinking.
And Bards are just assumed to be mystery meat until they prove otherwise. 'Cause, yanno Bards!
As long as the male iconics don't dress like Hennet (or at least have the physique to pull it off, if they do), more male iconics would be fine.
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Mmm...man candy...:PLike this guy?
ew no, not a fan of the beards, or dwarves. The Well Dressed Man in Gallery of Evil was quite nice though ;) (In our group we call him the 'sharp dressed man' and play ZZ-Top whenever we mention him)
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Contributor
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ew no, not a fan of the beards, or dwarves. The Well Dressed Man in Gallery of Evil was quite nice though ;) (In our group we call him the 'sharp dressed man' and play ZZ-Top whenever we mention him)Mmm...man candy...:PLike this guy?
Awww... dwarves need love too... :(
Awww... dwarves need love too... :(
Dwarves are fine, especially those sinewy dwarven smithes...not complaining about dwarven rangers though.
Awww... dwarves need love too... :(
Well, then they should get out of their holes a bit more, shave, put on some decent clothes, and stop scowling at everything. Oh, and not being drunk whenever they're not knee-deep in dust or guts would probable help immensely ;-P
A bard named Candy...
She uses exotic dancing as ther perform skill.
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Right now as it stands we have:
Unknown Barbarian
Male Halfling Bard
Female Human Cleric
Unknown Druid
Male Human Fighter
Unknown Monk
Female Human Paladin
Male Dwarf Ranger
Female Elf Rogue
Female Human Sorceror
Male Human Wizard
That means so far unknown
Barbarian
Druid
Monk
and the mysterious 12th
We know 6 female, 6 male total and right now we're at 4/4
And so far no Gnome, Half Orc or Half Elf iconics
So my guesses:
Female ? Barbarian (Barbarians already wear little armor, it's another chance for skimpy outfit on a badass woman with a greataxe)
Male Half Elf Druid (Elfs are druidy and there's no male healer)
Male Half Orc Monk (I dunno why but that's just how I see it)
Female Gnome Fey-based new base class
Reiterate that those are total guesses
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Do I take issue? You bet I do.
At 7, you have to have more of 1 gender than the other, unless you do a hermaphrodite or androgene. So, why not 4 female to 3 male?
No one knows the male to female ratio of D&D players. Literally no one. None of our perosnal experiences has any beariong on that. The opposite of anecdote is not data.
Nor do all gamers play their own gender. Since we have no idea how many men play female characters, even if gamers are 80% male, there is every possibility a larger percentage of male-played characters are female. That would still mean more iconics should be female than male. (And for the record, I think 50/50 is exactly the right split to go with).
And to even presume you know what the :realistic" ratio is is silly in the extreme, to the point of insulting. IN the D&D universe, woman have no drawbacks compared to men. They are not weaker, slower, or stupider.
Even if you assume they are really, but the game makes allowances for you to play exceptional females, can only assume that for humans. maybe elven men are dumb as rocks, and their society is ruled by female wizards.
In Pathfinder, there seems to be gender equity. So, the "realistic" (hiss, spit) ratio is 50/50, just like it's the reasonable assumed ratio for farmers, paid companions, thieves, criminals, politicians, pirates, and any other role you care to think of.
To claim otherwise is wrong-headed and, yes, insulting.
And, fo rthe record, I LIKE the dwarf man-candy, and so do most girls and ebars I know.
A bard named Candy...She uses exotic dancing as ther perform skill.
See, I've run that character, both as a male and female character. Actually, the male version was more fun...
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We set up a booth at GenCon this year for the first time. I was amazed at the number of female gamers. It wasn't quite 50/50 but awfully close I'd say. In my own group we currently have three men and 2 women, though not long ago it was 3 women and 2 men.
I think people underestimate the number of female gamers out there.
Though I did notice some differences in shopping patterns between them, and bear in mind this is completely unscientific, just noticing where people congregated. The guys tended to gather around stores selling the crunchy, that is rules and miniatures and traditional gamer stuff, while the ladies tended to gather around the bling, stuff like our dice trays, clothes and accessories.
I would be very curious to see numbers someday on spending habits between the sexes. My bet is men spend more on the crunchy while women spend more on the fluff. However, I also quite sure I am wrong, as I spend an awful lot on fluff :)
...while the ladies tended to gather around the bling, stuff like our dice trays, clothes and accessories.
We likes the bling.
I would be very curious to see numbers someday on spending habits between the sexes. My bet is men spend more on the crunchy while women spend more on the fluff. However, I also quite sure I am wrong, as I spend an awful lot on fluff :)
In my anecdotal experience, in LARP circles gender ratio is at least 50/50 or even on the side of women, while tabletop gaming still has not so much draw for women...and large part of female tabletop gamers I know also LARP. So that may explain partially the draw for clothes, accessories etc, they feature more heavily on the way many women game (and evil tongues say that it's another way around, women are drawn towards LARP because it includes more clothes, accessories etc.)
And I must say I know very few women who are into miniature war games.
I buy new dice once a year.. I must be a girlie man for liking the accessories. :P
I also buy new dice once a year at least - I can't leave that Chessex Booth on the Spiel in Essen alone. This year it was 4 or so sets, plus another mini dice set.
I still don't consider myself a gamer girl. Not at all.