Nualia Captured

[finerion]

My PC's just captured Nualia and they are planning on taking her back to town to turn over to Belor and Deverin. Any ideas on what they would do to Nualia? Would she be sent off to Magnimar for trial, or would she just be tried here in Sandpoint?

[Pat o' the Ninth Power]

Mine did the same thing. So far she's cooling her heels getting a good interrogation by Belor and Deverin, but she'll be shipped out to Magnimar. We're already in Skinsaw Murders, but my PCs don't seem to believe in downtime (in fact, they found Grayst before Belor's men did), so only a few days have passed.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Pat o' the Ninth Power wrote:

Mine did the same thing. So far she's cooling her heels getting a good interrogation by Belor and Deverin, but she'll be shipped out to Magnimar. We're already in Skinsaw Murders, but my PCs don't seem to believe in downtime (in fact, they found Grayst before Belor's men did), so only a few days have passed.

so are you going to advance her and have her show up later

Spoiler:

since both she and the PCs are in Maginmar

[Charles Evans 25]

Interesting point with regard to a captured Nualia. If I remember correctly she has had contact with the Skinsaw Men (they bumped off her treacherous 'ex-lover') and if interrogated properly could be coerced/persuaded to give away information such as meeting places, 'disguises' that the Skinsaw men wear to hide their features, possibly even clues that might give away the identity of one or more Skinsw Men.

If Nualia is sent to Magnimar for justice, I would think that she might not ever see a public trial. The top Skinsaw man in Magnimar would not want to *risk* that she could finger any of his members in open court, and might either arrange a 'plea-bargain' if such things exist in Magnimar (nothing necessarily lenient, just taking the threat of execution off the table to keep her quiet) or simply for her to 'die' overnight in her cell. (Depending on whether or not this would raise any suspicion.)

As a particularly interesting twist, the garrison of Fort Rannick (see Pathfinder #3) is partially composed of criminals sentenced in the Magnimar courts. This might lead to the following scene in a Magnimar courtroom:

Justice: 'Whilst you have expressed no remorse for your actions, the not complete absence of mitigating circumstances in the case leads me to believe that your thirst for violence might be channeled into channels more useful to this city. I am sending you to Fort Rannick, on the frontier, to join the garrison there of The Black Arrows, where you will spend the rest of your life fighting the savage creatures that menace more civilised lands. If you abandon that post, sentence of death will immediately be imposed upon you, and your life will be regarded as forfeit in any settlement or lands friendly to Magnimar....'

Introducing Nualia (with a level or two of ranger, extra) into Pathfinder #3 could suggest possible new angles there. Depending on how much she simply enjoys killing things (even if it means shelving her plans for Sandpoint for now) she might be on anybody's side by the time that the PC's arrive in Turtleback Ferry. Her Lamashtu instincts might convince her to switch sides to join the attackers, if it becomes clear that the Fort is going to fall and she can realistically believe (she is intelligent after all) that the ogres both intend to hold the area long-term and are capable of winning against any army Magnimar sends out to retake the Fort.
Then again, if the long-term position of the ogres looks shaky, the idea that with 'good-behaviour' she might work her way into a position of authority in Fort Rannick at some point giving her a viable base to work from, might appeal more- especially given that she is a 'wrathful soul' and if an ogre were to attack her (even acccidentally) no matter what pretty offers were made afterwards she might refuse point blank to ally with any of them instead taking to the woods (and being a potential unlikely ally to any PC attempt deal with ogres/ogrekin- she's crossed swords with the PCs before and lost and whilst she may hate their guts, trying to go one-on-one with them simply isn't likely to work.)

[Razor767]

While I'm not referencing my copy of the AP at the moment, my take on her is that she has "snapped" and is wholly irredeemable. If she's survived I would shelve her in the justice system until she becomes useful and I find a means of explaining her release or... I'd find some foil by which to explain her immediate escape and have both options of an earlier reunion or one further along in the story.

[Michael F]

I gotta say, as a DM, I would be reluctant to use the "whoops, she got out of jail!" excuse.

I admit that Nualia could be an interesting recurring villain, but in a way, the plot sort of passes her by. Slotting her into Skinsaw wouldn't be too difficult, but I think it would get progressively harder to find a place for her in later adventures.

However, Nualia's potentially divided loyalty could be interersting,

Spoiler:

Her first loyalty appears to be to Lamashtu, but she also works for Karzoug through the influence of the Lamia matriarch.

As a DM, if you show the players that the "authorities" are not capable of holding onto dangerous captives, you almost force them into a "take no prisoners" attitude. Which can be a pain if the plot calls for a sketchy NPC to ally with or provide information to the PCs.

"We'd really like to allow you to live, but every disagreeable NPC with more than two character levels has come back to haunt us multiple times. So we're going to have to kill you. I'm sure you understand, no hard feelings...STAB HACK CHOP."

I guess it depends on the group of players. Some people have more tolerance for the whole "the bad guy got away AGAIN" trope. If it's something that everyone involved expects from the campaign, then it's not really a problem.

[Shem]

Michael F wrote:

I gotta say, as a DM, I would be reluctant to use the "whoops, she got out of jail!" excuse.

But how about if the Skinsaw man breaks her out (or a bunch of Ghouls) and she goes back to Magnimar to hook up with her buddies before the group gets that far. Although you might want to be careful - if you do it too soon the group may take off after her rather than stay on task. Or maybe they do not find out until they are done with the Mansion and then track/chase her to Magnimar...

Just some thoughts.

[F33b]

Razor767 wrote:

While I'm not referencing my copy of the AP at the moment, my take on her is that she has "snapped" and is wholly irredeemable.

I agree. I take "fights to the death" to mean she's not, and will not be interested in atonement, of any kind. She a priestess of the goddess of monsters, and is also well on her way to transforming into some kind of fiend. First chance she gets, she'll be killing again, and trying to take as many with her as possible. How easy is it to imprison something that can cast Shatter? Short of keeping her at 0 hp or less, I can't think of anyway to subdue her long enough (at level 4-5) to get her to Magnimar for trial.

[tbug]

F33b wrote:

Short of keeping her at 0 hp or less, I can't think of anyway to subdue her long enough (at level 4-5) to get her to Magnimar for trial.

Shatter has both verbal and somatic components, so once you knock her out you just need to tie her up (a good precaution regardless) and gag her. Then stick her in a wagon with two PCs guarding her the whole way, possibly in shifts to prevent boredom.

[GeraintElberion]

Ironbriar isn't her friend, she's an ally who has become a liability. I'd have her die in prison a few days after she reaches Magnimar (dangerous spellcasters are chained and gagged throughout their prison stay, they're easy to kill).

[Neil Spicer]

What if you had her taken to Magnimar and imprisoned? And unknown to anyone else, she's pregnant with one of Lamashtu's progeny. Over the span of 9 months time, this "child" might be born as its own fully-formed monster...which either helps Nualia escape...or she manages to send it out into the world to wreak vengeance upon the PCs who bested her?

Or maybe the fact that she's birthing a monster serves as one last compelling reason for the authorities in Magnimar to put her to death?

Just another idea,
--Neil

[Shem]

NSpicer wrote:

What if you had her taken to Magnimar and imprisoned? And unknown to anyone else, she's pregnant with one of Lamashtu's progeny. Over the span of 9 months time, this "child" might be born as its own fully-formed monster...which either helps Nualia escape...or she manages to send it out into the world to wreak vengeance upon the PCs who bested her?

Or maybe the fact that she's birthing a monster serves as one last compelling reason for the authorities in Magnimar to put her to death?

Just another idea,
--Neil

I think that kind of birth would probably result in the death of the mother - not that it is a bad idea. It could be a very baaaad Monster.

[Michael F]

Shem wrote:

But how about if the Skinsaw man breaks her out (or a bunch of Ghouls) and she goes back to Magnimar to hook up with her buddies before the group gets that far.

I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense for Nualia's associates or "allies" to attempt to break her out of jail if the PCs dump her there. There's a number of reasonable scenarios where Nualia's "buddies" could bring sufficient force to bear so that they could overpower or bypass the defenses at the Sandpoint Garrsion, spring her during transport to Magnimar or even bust her out of jail in Magnimar.

My primary concern is for the morale of the players. If the players "do the right thing" and show some mercy, it can be very frustrating for the bad guy to get away anyway. It's like the game world isn't holding up it's end of the bargain and the players got punished for good roleplaying (assumes a good aligned group, of course).

That sort of thing always annoyed me as a player, but I suppose some groups handle it without complaint if that's what they expect. "Off to jail with you, we'll see you soon after you ineveitably escape."

So if the jails can't hold the bad guys, the players may become more likely to kill than negotiate with or capture NPCs and Villains. I don't want my players to be saying (either in game or metagame) "If we capture this guy, we will have to fight him again, so should we bother?"

In this Adventure Path, many of the NPCs "fight to the death", especially in the later books as the CRs go up and the big ticket monsters show up. But there are still a few NPCs sprinkled around who the party should talk to. But if they're attitudes have hardened, they may miss the cues.

My secondary concern about a "Free Nualia" is just for the continuity of the campaign. If she gets away, you might get a bit of enemy overload. If your players are doing well, you could probably throw her into another fight somewhere without blowing up the CR. I can also see where there would be potential for Nualia to be an interesting recurring villain. Every time the PCs meet her, she could have a new demonic appendage and keep popping out baby monsters. But I think she would end up becoming somewhat of a distraction from the main adventure path.

Sorry for the long post, I was on a roll ;^)

[Razor767]

I agree you can get into trouble if your villains consistently escape. But letting one go wouldn't doom you to letting them all go. The OP was speaking specifically about Nualia and I think it would be better to have her as a fugitive or someone that could come back later on than having her try to assimilate with the party.

[Razor767]

er... disregard the party assimilation part. I cross-pollenated my thoughts on another thread about Nualia surviving.

[Tessius]

She could escape then lay low the rest of the RotRL AP. She bides her time brooding on destroying Sandpoint and the heroes who defeated her before, only to return stronger with new followers or even 'children' to help her. Say a mini-campaign for the characters that covers level 15/16-20 and follows some time after Spires of Xin-Shalast.

[Razor767]

That too is a valid solution. Especially if you're worried about her junking up the AP. Bravo!