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I'm really starting to hate this word, and the negative conotations that go along with it. any time anyone has a problem with some altered aspect of "The Game," they're dismissed with, "Grognards aside..." or "Obviosly, grognards will hate this," or even "Well, you're a grognard, so there."
I'm an old gamer. Some changes I like, and some I really hate. Apparently, since I don't "get on board" with every change that comes along, I'm a grognard (which, even after looking up the historical reference from whence the word came, is still an awful-sounding word).
Do new gamers all LOVE change no matter what, for changes sake alone? Should we come up with an unflattering term by which to refer to them?
I'm just getting tired of being called names when the name caller isn't not close enough for me to belt for it.
I could be called a 'grognard'. I still don't really know what it means, though...
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Y'know, gaming aside and generally in life, I hate change. I take that back, I'm leery of change. I've been through so much change, and I'm still respiring. I've seen too many other lifeforms that, due to change, are not. It sounds fatalistic, but that's at the root of the problem for me.
Any time there is change, there is opportunity, and there is danger. And with that danger,.......
Far as cranky goes, when I am cranky inside is when I am at my funniest.
...I also wonder how many are pronouncing it with a hard g.
You mean it isn't?
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I think part of the problem is that many of the ppl who are labeling others grognard are the ones who just came on board in the recent past. They have a different idea about the flavour of D&D and they don't understand that these "old timers" are only trying to maintain the flavour that they have come to love through multiple editions. If the game "evolves" too far away from some basic fundamentals-it's not a the same game and not one they/I will follow.
I personally love the pulp fantasy feel of the older editions-where you didn't need a specific spell to describe or explain any random occurance and evil was REALLY evil (not a moral ambiguity that ppl like to debate ad nausem). I don't consider myself anything other than a gamer who likes what he likes and ppl can label that anyway they like.
Grognard.
The proper response:
Guy1: "Hey you quite complaining you stupid grognard. You don't know what your talking about."
Guy2: *kicks guy1 in the nuts* "Hows your nards now huh?"
Guy1: *groans* "Touche."
Grognard. Wear it with pride.
Mommy, what's a grognard?
Mommy, what's a grognard?
"Gronyard", isn't it? I think "gron" like flipping a light switch, not like "groan"
I want one of those light switches that makes a "gron" sound.
Or one that goes "grognard" would be even better.
Mommy, what's a grognard?
I think that I learned the meaning from a previous thread. In a D&D thread, I think it means a guy who won't take the 'updated' version. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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More recently, I've heard the terms "dungeon-punker" vs. "sugar-loafer" tossed around a lot, probably because 'grognard', meaning "grumpy, well-bearded one, who has played a home-brew system based on Iron Crown, Red-Box Basic and Flashing Blades since before you were born" is something of a term of respect at my local brick-&-mortar gaming store.
But anyone, old or young, experienced or newb, player of the original Castle Ravenloft or just got his first pack of Yu-Gi-Oh, can be accused of "dungeon-punkery" or "sugar-loafery".
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More recently, I've heard the terms "dungeon-punker" vs. "sugar-loafer" tossed around a lot, probably because 'grognard', meaning "grumpy, well-bearded one, who has played a home-brew system based on Iron Crown, Red-Box Basic and Flashing Blades since before you were born" is something of a term of respect at my local brick-&-mortar gaming store.
Do you mean that I have to grow a nice beard before I can be considered a true grognard?
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More recently, I've heard the terms "dungeon-punker" vs. "sugar-loafer" tossed around a lot, probably because 'grognard', meaning "grumpy, well-bearded one, who has played a home-brew system based on Iron Crown, Red-Box Basic and Flashing Blades since before you were born" is something of a term of respect at my local brick-&-mortar gaming store.
But anyone, old or young, experienced or newb, player of the original Castle Ravenloft or just got his first pack of Yu-Gi-Oh, can be accused of "dungeon-punkery" or "sugar-loafery".
I know what a dungeon is, i know what punk means, i'm familiar with sugar, loaves and have seen a sugarloaf, i'm even aware that a sugar-loaf is a type of hat, although i've never seen one.
However; I cannot even begin to imagine what a "dungeon-punker" or "sugar-loafer" might be.
Anyone care to enlighten me?
Grognards unite!
And demand more pulp and less anime! ;P
Actually, to be honest, I kinda like anime. But I still want more pulp!
Pathfinder needs more Frazetta and less WAR. 'nuff said.
-The Gneech
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I'm really starting to hate this word, and the negative conotations that go along with it. any time anyone has a problem with some altered aspect of "The Game," they're dismissed with, "Grognards aside..." or "Obviosly, grognards will hate this," or even "Well, you're a grognard, so there."
I'm an old gamer. Some changes I like, and some I really hate. Apparently, since I don't "get on board" with every change that comes along, I'm a grognard (which, even after looking up the historical reference from whence the word came, is still an awful-sounding word).
Do new gamers all LOVE change no matter what, for changes sake alone? Should we come up with an unflattering term by which to refer to them?I'm just getting tired of being called names when the name caller isn't not close enough for me to belt for it.
I just call them "Sheep". I thought about calling them "Zombies" but I wouldn't want to offend our resident undead (specially of the "Aber" persuasion).
Sheep, they go where you lead them, eat what you give them to eat, and have no original thinking besides what the flock states as Kewl. Not to mention that WotC is only trying to Fleece them. *snicker*.Sometimes I am so witty.
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I just call them "Sheep". I thought about calling them "Zombies" but I wouldn't want to offend our resident undead (specially of the "Aber" persuasion).
Sheep, they go where you lead them, eat what you give them to eat, and have no original thinking besides what the flock states as Kewl. Not to mention that WotC is only trying to Fleece them. *snicker*.
Sometimes I am so witty.
How's about "Lemmings?" I like that one myself. Just because the lead lemming says that they should all jump off a cliff into the ocean, all the others fall in line and do it.
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How's about "Lemmings?" I like that one myself. Just because the lead lemming says that they should all jump off a cliff into the ocean, all the others fall in line and do it.I just call them "Sheep". I thought about calling them "Zombies" but I wouldn't want to offend our resident undead (specially of the "Aber" persuasion).
Sheep, they go where you lead them, eat what you give them to eat, and have no original thinking besides what the flock states as Kewl. Not to mention that WotC is only trying to Fleece them. *snicker*.
Sometimes I am so witty.
It may be an even better metaphor than you suggest.
Lemmings are not led into the water, rather they migrate en masse with no controlling voice. The overwhelming urge to act together is driven beyond reason. This urge will even drive them to swim out into the sea whilst exhausted, and thus drown.
Sheep is a good name for em I say.
And Grognard is a good thing to be isnt it? The wise and the experianced who have seen the game evolve first hand. Trying to use it as an insult just makes you look even more pathetic.
And I have always seen it on message boards but not actually pronounced in speech. Your sayign it DOESNT have a hard G?
I thought it was Grog (like what pirates drink)...and Nards (what you kick if you encounter a wolfman).
Grog-Nards
Easy with the lemming metaphor. Considering its completely baseless. Disney made it up in one of their old "Pre-Discovery Channel" wildlife shows. The lemmings aren't falling off a cliff: they're being spun off a small turntable. Look it up, its an interesting glimpse into the nature of urban legends and how a lie told enough times can become truth in the minds of the masses.
BTW, Grognards all the way.
Easy with the lemming metaphor. Considering its completely baseless. Disney made it up in one of their old "Pre-Discovery Channel" wildlife shows. The lemmings aren't falling off a cliff: they're being spun off a small turntable. Look it up, its an interesting glimpse into the nature of urban legends and how a lie told enough times can become truth in the minds of the masses.
BTW, Grognards all the way.
Yes. See here.
I thought it was Grog (like what pirates drink)...and Nards (what you kick if you encounter a wolfman).
Grog-Nards
Ahhh. Monster Squad.
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Easy with the lemming metaphor. Considering its completely baseless. Disney made it up in one of their old "Pre-Discovery Channel" wildlife shows. The lemmings aren't falling off a cliff: they're being spun off a small turntable. Look it up, its an interesting glimpse into the nature of urban legends and how a lie told enough times can become truth in the minds of the masses.
Oh, pity us simple-minded masses...
Only neither kikai13 or I actually referenced the suicidal lemming tale. We just talked about them acting in droves.
Everything I said is an accurate (as far as I know) description of some lemming behaviour. No reference to to mass-suicide at all (that would actually make it a rubbish metaphor, WotC fans are not collectively drinking the kool-aid).
I need a stat block for 'swarm of lemmings'...
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I just call them "Sheep". I thought about calling them "Zombies" but I wouldn't want to offend our resident undead (specially of the "Aber" persuasion).
I appreciate that. Ever since that Romero character came out with his damn "Night of..." movie, us living dead folk can't get a decent break.
All I ever wanted was to be act Shakespeare, but every time I go to a casting call they tell me I'm "not what they're looking for", that I should "give George a call", or that "the Milla Jovovich movie is filming on Stage 3 today". I just want to act!! Stop typecasting me!!
And damn it, people are always trying shoot me in the head!!!
Isn't lemming one of the new 4e races?
Anyway, sheep sounds about right: They follow, they bleat, they're going to be fleeced and later butchered when their herd wants a new flock.
And damn it, people are always trying shoot me in the head!!!
Just like that? How could they?
We all know that you're supposed to shoot the feet/legs until the zombie falls down, and only then keep shooting the head until a crit makes it pop.
But what do you expect when you keep shouting stuff like "¡Imbécil, quiero matar!", "¡Mátenlo!" or "¡Te voy a hacer picadillo!" ;-)
I just call them "Sheep". I thought about calling them "Zombies" but I wouldn't want to offend our resident undead (specially of the "Aber" persuasion).I appreciate that. Ever since that Romero character came out with his damn "Night of..." movie, us living dead folk can't get a decent break.
All I ever wanted was to be act Shakespeare, but every time I go to a casting call they tell me I'm "not what they're looking for", that I should "give George a call", or that "the Milla Jovovich movie is filming on Stage 3 today". I just want to act!! Stop typecasting me!!
And damn it, people are always trying shoot me in the head!!!
I'm so sorry, Aberzombie! I don't have a gun! I'll have to use my whacker! Sorry! I feel so bad to let you down!
Do you mean that I have to grow a nice beard before I can be considered a true grognard?
Only if you're male. Who'd want to exclude Dungeon Grrl and her ilk from such an illustrious club?
...Man I hope Dungeon Grrl is really of the female persuasion...
pfff you people are crazy (sorry about the name calling). You dont kick people in the Nards, you kick them in the Nads! short for gonads.
I dont see Grognard as insulting, it just means old guard - a bit crotchety and leery of change.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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I know what a dungeon is, i know what punk means, i'm familiar with sugar, loaves and have seen a sugarloaf, i'm even aware that a sugar-loaf is a type of hat, although i've never seen one.However; I cannot even begin to imagine what a "dungeon-punker" or "sugar-loafer" might be.
Anyone care to enlighten me?
My understanding, and let me assure you that I'M not totally sure of the exact origins on any of this, is that the two are supposed to be opposite ends of the "gaming spectrum":
Dungeon-Punkers, with a name that evokes those kids who stand outside of Hot Topic all damn day, want their games to be pure fantasy wish-fulfilment; whether Pulp or Anime or Wuxia or Fairy-Tale, sweaty or swaggering or stealthy, Conan or James Bond or Blade, the game is meant to be enjoyed, first and foremost - which allows for magical sunglasses, Zippo lighters and ninja-stars in a Europe-Lite/FF7 dungeon.
Sugar-Loafers, then, named for those stupid-looking (but real-world-effective) sugarloaf helms that were worn by 14th century English knights, are people who want to play for Realism/Accuracy, be it Historical or Contextual - within the confines of a sugar-loafer game, everything is about the weight of rations, the break-length of period-appropriate rope, and monetary loss from a coin's exchange rate across borders.
I've been called both, of course.
*grin*
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Easy with the lemming metaphor. Considering its completely baseless. Disney made it up in one of their old "Pre-Discovery Channel" wildlife shows. The lemmings aren't falling off a cliff: they're being spun off a small turntable. Look it up, its an interesting glimpse into the nature of urban legends and how a lie told enough times can become truth in the minds of the masses.
BTW, Grognards all the way.
I was actually referring to the legend, not the fact. In that sense, I still find it to be an accurate metaphor. Because of the legend, the term "lemming" does carry with it a certain connotation that I was attempting to connect with the op's desire for a derogatory term.
Sometimes my online persona runs away with the game.
Easy with the lemming metaphor. Considering its completely baseless. Disney made it up in one of their old "Pre-Discovery Channel" wildlife shows. The lemmings aren't falling off a cliff: they're being spun off a small turntable. Look it up, its an interesting glimpse into the nature of urban legends and how a lie told enough times can become truth in the minds of the masses.
BTW, Grognards all the way.
I was actually referring to the legend, not the fact. In that sense, I still find it to be an accurate metaphor. Because of the legend, the term "lemming" does carry with it a certain connotation that I was attempting to connect with the op's desire for a derogatory term.
Sometimes my online persona runs away with the game.
I'm still pretty sure that lemmings do run insanely at some time of the year...
Trying to convince a market segment to buy something they don't want is extremely expensive and seldom successful. I just don't see everyone whom just bought into seven years of D&D books to suddenly lay all that to the side, run out and buy $34.95x3 core rule books, 24.95 modules, $150.00 miniature cases, $49.95 campaign guides,$XX.XX D.I service,Online subscribs to Dragon and Dungeon, most kid are just gonna buy a x-box or get into WOW. 4e is a Led Zepplin waiting to happen, period. These things happen from time to time, this to shall pass.
Change is the root of growth, creativity, and variety. To a certain degree changes run the risk of alienating existing customers/fans, but changes also give folks new toys and ideas to play around with. The great thing about RPGs of any sort is the "take it or leave it" aspect. Everyone is free to mix and match old concepts and new ones to make their own fun and share it with others, wherever that balance lies. The very fact that there are "oldtimers" in the RPG/D&D-playing world who got into it at different times or from different avenues is representative of the usefulness and necessity of change.
As for the term itself, that Wikipedia article is pretty clear on both pronunciation (soft "gn" & silent "d", from French origins) and meaning (veterans with the experience to see trouble coming, but lacking the power/rank to do anything about it). Frankly, it sounds pretty accurate for the OP's apparent position wrt. 4th Ed. D&D (as I understand it).
Yes Grognards, I can feel your hatred. STRIKE ME DOWN WITH IT! Give in to the darkside.