I've never played a bard before, but I'm interested. The campaigns I usually play in tend to be very combat-heavy. Suggestions?
Contributor, RPG Superstar
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Hi, I just saw your post and combat heavy bard builds can use:
Song of the White Raven (Feat from Tome of Battle)
[Allows you to have the Inspire Courage Ability of the bard, while gaining all the combat oriented class features of the ToB classes. You'll need to multiclass.]
War Chanter (PRC from Complete Warrior)
[The 3rd lvl Inspire Recklessness is strong if used with Power Attack and a 2handed weapon]
Sublime Chord (PRC from Complete Arcane)
[9th level arcane spells]
Laugh OUT Loud!!!! No, no it is not...Heck it is impossible to make a good bard period. A kolbold commoner could own a bard. bards straight up just suck, the jester on the other hand... now thats a good class.
(Check the pic)
The jester does all that without sucking at every thing else.
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it has been said that Bards are a great fifth PC. That pretty much sums up my opinions of them as a combat oriented class.
I would suggest putting stats in Dexterity and focusing on dexterity based skills like archery. Think of the Bard as support, not front line fighter, and you won't go far wrong. Precise shot is your friend in this regard.
My husband has tried playing a bard 3 times. The first one was fairly standard, and disappointing. To make up for it, the second was a Goliath (race from Races of Stone, I believe) - bonus on Strength, plus the Massive Build racial trait to let him use Large weapons. That one was pretty cool, and probably the best option, assuming your DM will let you play a Goliath.
His current bard (attempt #3) is a gnome, and he isn't having much fun with it. He feels like he spends all of his actions letting other people do cool stuff.
If we were planning to stick with these characters for much longer, I'd probably house-rule some changes to incorporate 4th-Edition-promo thinking. Let the bardic music be a swift action, for example. Basically, make sure that he can do his cool-bard-boosts-for-allies and still get to DO SOMETHING himself. But again, you'd have to get your DM to agree to something like that.
I like the looks of the jester as well, I love the Dragon Compendium!
Hmmmm, bards suck at combat even with prestige classes? I've been googling it, and both Sublime Chord and Seeker of the Song seem to be quite popular suggestions....
Oh well, If I can't make a good combat bard, I'll just make a jester!
I did a class acts called "heavy metal" (issue #328 according to Dragondex) offering some ideas on how bards can get away with wearing better armor. If in a combat intense campaign that should increase your survivability a few notches :)
May I suggest using the 'Savage Bard' from the Unearthed Arcana/SRD.
Mechanically its not so different, saves are slightly different, a skill change, and some changes to the spell-list that make the character more druidic. Some things that help as well though. It totally changes the flavor though if you start thinking of how a Viking Skald should act.
1) Bardic Knack from PHBII. Class feature variant. You lose your Bardic Lore, but you can actually do all kinds of skills. Not greatly helpful, but it increases your utility.
2)Battle Dancer feat from PHBII: +2 to your attacks while doing bardic music. Nice little boost, it also encourages Bards to keep using their bardic music, which they should be doing anyway.
3)Elusive Target tactical feat from Complete Warrior: Too much stuff to list. I like this one because a bard can't be a stand up fighter, not really. This helps add some flair and fun while being very effective.
4)Deadly Defense feat from Complete Scoundrel: bonus to damage when fighting defensively, works for me. Especially since AC is usually not super great for bards.
5)The Warchanter, as stated before. A great warrior-bard class.
More as I think of it.
Is it possible to make a very effective combat bard?
Yes. It is possible.
However it will require a great deal of work.
You will need to know all of the combat option rules (trip, flank, aid another, etc.) well, and be able to do good tactical movement.
On top of that you will have to be able to "suck up" the fact you will not get the glory. You have to be content with helping others get all the glory.
The Bard PrC's are a fine balancing act as well. You need to know how much of your base Bard abilities you can do without to boost your other abilities.
If you are into that kind of stuff, it can be great fun. But, if you haven't tried anything like that, I wouldn't suggest it. If you want some combat boosting abilities, but be an effective front line type fighter as well, I'd suggest the Marshal (from the Miniatures Handbook).
2)Battle Dancer feat from PHBII: +2 to your attacks while doing bardic music. Nice little boost, it also encourages Bards to keep using their bardic music, which they should be doing anyway.
Not as useful as it first appears.
The bonus is Moral based, so it won't stack with your own musical bonuses, and it requires you to keep moving and attacking each round, or you loose it's effects until you start another song. It is too crippled in my opinion.
Laugh OUT Loud!!!! No, no it is not...Heck it is impossible to make a good bard period.Old thinking. WAY old. Bards get better and better the more splatbooks you have, because Charisma is so easy to add to everything. Saves, Damage, Attack, Initiative, AC, the works.
Song of the White Raven, Song of the Heart, Snowflake Wardance, Devoted Performer-to-Divine Might, all are great options.
Bard8/Paladin2/SublimeChord2/SacredExcorcist4/EldritchKnight4 — 9th level spells, BAB 16, Cha to Saves, Attack, Damage — problem with that?
Crusader3/Bard7/WarChanter10 — BAB 18, Ridiculous Attack Bonuses. The only problem is you'll want to keep taking Crusader levels.
Bard8/Paladin2/HumanParagon3/IajutsuMaster5/ArcaneDuelist2 — Cha to Saves, AC and Intiative and (chuckle) Iajutsu Focus.
Gaaaaaaaahhhhh! Ahhhhhhhhh! How do you come up with a background and roleplaying reasons to have all of those classes?? It's like a strobe light of classes.
Gaaaaaaaahhhhh! Ahhhhhhhhh! How do you come up with a background and roleplaying reasons to have all of those classes?? It's like a strobe light of classes.
To be fair, Deathedge asked if it could be done. Not, how can it be done without munchkinism. ;-)
To be fair, Deathedge asked if it could be done. Not, how can it be done without munchkinism. ;-)
Ah! Good point. My apology. I was thinking about how you would try and play one of those builds and my brain went into epileptic at a rave mode.
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Old thinking. WAY old. Bards get better and better the more splatbooks you have, because Charisma is so easy to add to everything. Saves, Damage, Attack, Initiative, AC, the works.-snipped bunch of multiclassed examples-
So let me get this straight...
Bard are a great class for combat so long as you take other class levels in more combat oriented classes.
Yeah I can see that.
Why did I picture the "battle bard" as this?
I love bards and love running up front to kill stuff, so this question has been floating around in my head for a while. As far as I can see, mulitclassing into Paladin is the best bet, with Fighter being a close second. The bard I play now is in a party with a cleric, cleric/fighter, and a druid/monk. She is great for helping others, while still being able to talk her way out of just about anything. A couple levels of fighter helps her BAB, so she can hold her own for a few rounds versus most things, and she has a few tricks up her sleeves.
We also have a bard/wizard/ulitmate magus/sublime chord who can deal out crazy damage and never seems to run out of spells.
Hope that helps.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Well, the Bard's big advantages are (a) versatility, (b) inspiration, (c) legend lore, and (d) enough skill points backed with enough Charisma to make social interactions advantageous.
The bard's best work is done to avoid combat, make combat easier for her allies, or pitch in as a second-string fighter if necessary.
So, can you come up with a bard that's good in battle? It's like coming up with a wizard who's good at riding feats: possible, but swimming against the tide.
Typically, a character gets extra good at something by setting something else aside. (There are exceptions, but that's why we call the Radiant Servant of Pelor "broken".)
So, a bardic character can get good in battle, but there are going to be trade-offs. Which is why I wantd to know what aspects of the Bard were important to the OP; I'd rather not trade away something he really wants to keep.
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I highly recommend the Sublime Chord or Seeker of the Song PrC from Complete Arcana. Still a bard you just learn to tap more juice out of the music. Seeker of the song gives you offensive cone and defensive radius capabilities for the energy types, an ability to force concentration checks vs your Perform check to cast a spell. Also you end up with a 15d6 sonic attack and a song that sends outsiders back to their home plane.
Here's something I snipped from an enworld thread some time back. Specifically it's advice on min/maxing inspire courage. I pick and choose a few things here and there, but it's good to know what's out there.
Inspire Courage Optimization
Inspire Courage ability (Su): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.
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Song of the Heart feat (Eberron Campaign Setting, pg. 60). Prereq: Bardic music class feature, inspire competence ability, Perform 6 ranks; Benefit: When you use inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics, any bonus granted by your music increases by +1.
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Melodic Casting feat (Complete Mage pg. 44), pre-req: Perform 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, bardic music class feature. Benefit: Whenever a Concentration check would be required to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability (such as when you cast defensively or are distracted or injured while casting), you can make a Perform check instead. In addition, you can cast spells and activate magic items by command word or spell completion while using a bardic music ability. Bardic music abilities that require concentration still take a standard action to perform.
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Lingering Song feat (Complete Adventurer, pg. 111). Pre-req: Bardic Music. Benefit: If you use bardic music to inspire courage...the effetc lasts for 1 minute after an inspired ally stops hearing you play.
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Words of Creation feat (Book of Exalted Deeds, pg. 48). Prereq: Good Alignment, Granted by powerful agent of good (such as deity, celestial, etc...), Special DM approval, Int 15, Chr 15, base Will save bonus +5; Benefit: You can use Words of Creation to enhance bardic music...A bard who has the Words of Creation feat can use these powerful words to enhance his bardic music ability as detailed below. When a bard uses the Words of Creation in this manner, it is extremely draining, and the bard takes 1d4 points of nonlethal damage for each rank in Perform required to produce the bardic music effect he is enhancing. For example, if Devis uses the Words of Creation to double an inspire courage effect (minimum 3 ranks in Perform), he takes 3d4 points of nonlethal damage....The Words of Creation doubles the effect of several bardic music abilities...Inspire Courage: Double the morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear and the morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls (+2 at 1st level, +4 at 8th level, +6 at 14th level, +8 at 20th level).
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Subsonics feat: Prereq Perform 10 ranks, bardic music; Benefit: You can produce music or poetics so subtly that opponents do not notice it, yet your allies still fain all the usual benefits from your bardic music. Similarly, you can affect opponents within range with your music, but unless they can see you performing or have some other means of discovering it, they cannot determine the source of the effect.
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Inspirational Boost Spell (Spell Compendium, pg. 124). Level: Bard 1; Components: V, S; Casting Time: 1 swift action; Range: Personal; Target: You; Duration: 1 round or special; While this spell is in effect, the morale bonus granted by your inspire courage bardic music increases by 1. The effect lasts until your inspire courage effect ends. If you don't begin to use your inspire courage ability before the beginning of your next turn, the spell's effect ends.
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Vest of Legends item (DMG II, pg. 272). +5 comp. bonus on Diplomacy and Perform checks, plus Bard level treated as five higher for purpose of determining the effects of inspire courage...Price: 16,000 gp.
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Songblade item: (Comp Adv pg. 130) +1 rapier, +2 Perform checks, +1 use/day bard music; 6,400gp.
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Bow of Songs item: (Comp Adv pg. 129) +2 shortbow, bard music use for + Cha to atk & dam; 32,330gp.
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Joyous Star Song item (MoF pg. 161): +1 bard music/day, +5 sacred perform check for that use. 5800gp.
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Instruments: Drums: +1 to the bonus to damage w/ Inspire Courage, but -1 to the bonus vs. charm and fear. Horn: +1 to the bonus to damage and save vs fear w/ Inspire Courage, but the effect ends 1 round after the recipient can no longer hear the bard toot. Lute: +1 level to determining effectiveness of bardic music. Mandolin: +1 to the atk roll bonus w/ Inspire Courage, but -1 to everything else (dam, save vs. charm/fear).
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Class Combinations: Bard X, Shadowdancer 1 (Hide in Plain Sight), Subsonics feat; Level of Marshall, and a level of Dragon Shaman.
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Marshall Class: d8 HD, 4 skill pts/lev, Fort & Will good saves; BAB as cleric; Weapon/Armor: As fighter; Skill Focus: Diplomacy; Auras (Ex) 60’ range, verbal component; Minor (choose 1): Charisma bonus to: flanking damage, charisma checks/skills, charging damage, dex checks/saves and init, or AC vs. AOOs; Major (choose 1, 2nd level ability): Dam rolls, Ranged atks, Melee atks.
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Dragon Shaman Class: d10 HD, 2 skill pts/lev, Fort & Will good saves; BAB as cleric; Weapon/Armor: As bard; DracoBard 9 + 5 BL (Vest of Legends) = Equiv.
Bard Level 14 = Inspire Courage +3a/+3d
Words of Creation double base bonus = +6a/+6d
Song of the Heart = +7a/+7d
Inspirational Boost = +8a/+8d
Badge of Valor = +9a/+9d
Masterwork Drums = +9a/10d
Marshall 2 +damage major aura = +9a/+11dnic Aura (Su): 30’ range, LoE, Choose 3: +1 to dam, fast heal 1 up to ½ normal HP, bluff diplo and intimidate, listen spot and init, or 2 dam to anyone striking us with melee or nat weap attack. __________________
Anyway about it though- no, you won't be a combat monster as a low level bard.
If you want to multiclass, why not go bardarian?
Anyway, with the low hp, you really have to work hard on keeping the AC up in order to be effective in combat consistently. The bard is at least as effective in hitting and not being hit, if not damaging as a rogue (due to sneak attack).
Bards great strength is their versatility. Need a "mage", hey go bard with use magic device, know(arcane), and spellcraft cranked. Diplomat? Speak language (1 point = 1 language) and diplomacy, sense motive, etc. Need a fringe fighter, go tumble and escape artist, and whip is a nice weapon for tripping even if a bard might not win it all the time. Medic? Bards can use wands of cure spells. Sneak? Bards got the class skills and the skill points there to do it. Use courage and inspire greatness to make you and your allies effective. Some good spell choices can really help (daze monster?).
If you are not having fun playing a bard, you probably need to change how you are approaching them. "Why can't my bard be as effective as the fighter in the party?" In combat? Because he is freaken fighter. But he probably is nearly as mobile or versatile in and out of combat.
I've never played a bard before, but I'm interested. The campaigns I usually play in tend to be very combat-heavy. Suggestions?
I have seen very effective battle-bards, many of which outclass the other fighters at the table. Virtually all of them are multi-classed and trick-heavy, so really dig into the splatbooks that your DM has approved. A friend of mine has worked up several battle-bard builds; I'll ask him for some suggestions and pass them on.
Meanwhile, I know that the most effective battle-bards I've seen generally make very heavy use of Power Attack and Whirling Blade (from the Spell Compendium). Combined with Warchanter's Inspire Recklessness (Complete Warrior), you've got an area-effect attack that outdoes what the wizard or sorcerer can do.
The other key, as others here have mentioned, is that you need to pick the feats/prestige classes/etc. that let you apply your high Charisma bonus to as many things as possible. A dip into the Marshal class is very good for this.
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Unfortunately, the most effective bards tend to require a lot of book-hopping and / or multi-classing.
Here's one example of book-hopping to beef up a particular sort of Bard, one based on (ab)using the inspiration aspect of Bardic Song.
1) The Eberron Campaign Setting has a nice feat (Song of the Heart? I'm away from book atm.) that increases the bonuses granted from Inspiration.
2) Dragonfire SomethingorOther (Channeling? Assault?) is a feat from Dragon Magic that allows a bard to convert the pluses from Inspiration to extra dice of damage (fire damage for most, although it may very for Bards descended from other dragon types). It requires being dragontouched as a prerequisite, however, limiting it to Dragonborn or Spellscales, or those who have purchased yet another feat to gain the Dragontouched type.
3) The Spell Compendium has a spell called Inspirational Boost that increases the effects of Inspiration.
4) Certain mundane musical instruments from Complete Adventurer or Scoundrel (I don't recall which) switch bonuses around, and may allow a bard's Inspiration to be more or less specifically useful.
Combining these features, a 4th level Bard, expending one of his Bardic Song uses and casting Inspirational Boost (a swift action) could begin the round granting his allies either a +3 to their rolls, or, using the Dragonfire feat, +3d6 fire damage to all melee attacks! The use of mundane instruments from Complete ThiefyStuff to modify this yet further is dubious, but not specifically against any rules.
Combined with a group that has a few melee types, or a dual-wielder who gets a bunch of attacks, this can rack up into a *huge* amount of extra damage, and the effects continue for several rounds after you stop singing / performing, allowing you to also go in and mix it up with your own weapons and / or spells, and not just sit back and 'cheerlead.'
Picking up Extra Music or Extended Music also makes sense, if designing a Bard based around Inspiration.
EDIT: I just noticed that Ithuriel, above, made a thorough list of these, and many other options.
If allowed to use 3rd party options, the S&S Players Guide to Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers has an interesting take on the Barbarian / Bard 'warchanter' concept. (Ragebringer, I think it's called.)
My personal favorite Bard wasn't a 'bard' at all, in the sense of a wandering chaotic dragon-blooded musician. He was a nobleman, who used knowledge of tactics and rousing speeches to rally his allies, had been trained in swordplay and who had traded spontaneous spellcasting for wizardly spellcasting (less spells / day, more spells known, spellbook required, still a significantly smaller and shorter list than a 'full' spellcaster would have access to). He had no idea how to sing or play an instrument, and was quite lawful, but otherwise filled the same niche and had the same mechanical abilities (although his spell selection was far less sound / sonic / song / music related, and more appropriate to a noble's son who had been tutored in history, heraldry and rulership, with some dabbling in the arcane arts and martial swordplay).
Why did I picture the "battle bard" as this?
Would that be considered a great "axe"?
Moreover, there's nothing in the rules preventing people from taking lots of classes. If you don't like multiclassing, that's your problem.
Besides which, classes are metagame concepts and have very little to nothing to do with roleplaying or background. You could have two characters that are roleplayed basically the same with the approximately same backgrounds and totally different classes.
Wow, I'm amazed that no one has come up with Arcane Strike from the Complete Warrior yet. It allows you to trade a spell slot for bonus damage (+1d4 per spell level). I don't remember if it also gives a bonus on attack rolls; perhaps.
Now granted, your staying power in a fight will be drastically reduced with this option, as you'll be sucking up a lot of spells. But when combined with the other bonuses bards can bring to bear on themselves from music and spells, it does give a nice damage potential; certainly enough to be considered "combat effective." Also, as others have pointed out, always carry a whip. The special maneuvers it lets you pull off from up to 15 feet away are extremely nice, and can give you a quite noticeable, direct, and fun role even when you aren't using Arcane Strike. Combine the two options and you've got yourself a decent warrior.
And all with just one supplemental rule.
I definitely agree with Saern's assessment. A bard can be an effective swashbuckler/finesse fighter with the right strategies and feats. Read up on those crazy combat tricks like disarm, trip and things like that, grab a whip, a rapier and a ranged weapon and go to town. If you're using supplements, Complete Adventurer's Lingering Song lets your bardic music bonus stick around a full ten rounds after you've performed which is usually enough time to deal with a routine minion fight. You're never going to be able to take the barbarian or power attack fighter route of dishing out and receiving tons of damage, but you can certainly fight with more flare while you pull your foes' feat from under them and relieve them of their weapons.
A bard makes a good buffer/controller and (with a whip/whip dagger or other reach weapon) as a teammate to the party tank. A bard will not make a good blaster (unless switching to Seeker of the Song or Sublime Chord) or front-line combatant (unless switching to Warchanter, and then only sort of). To be an effective combat bard from 1st level, make a human with Combat Expertise and Improved Trip who uses a whip or whip dagger. Concentrate on spells that disable or control enemies. Max out at least one Perform skill for the Bardic Music abilities. You may also want to consider one level of swashbuckler for the free Weapon Finesse.
Wow, I'm amazed that no one has come up with Arcane Strike from the Complete Warrior yet. It allows you to trade a spell slot for bonus damage (+1d4 per spell level). I don't remember if it also gives a bonus on attack rolls; perhaps.
It's great... once you qualify. which doesn't happen until 7th. which means you normally can't take it until 9th, when you get a new feat. At which point you can get +3 to hti and +3d4 damage on about 3 attacks per day (depending on Cha modifier).
Nice, but A: you'd better have found something that works long before that and B: It's still not making up for no decent attack spells or you lack of hit points.
Most effective combat bard I ever say used as much Dex as she could get her hands on, Improved Toughness, Weapon Finesse, mithral breastplate and an adamantium rapier. Invisiblity and defensive spells, rather than any offensive spells.
Steps to making a bard:
Step 1: Make your character sheet.
Step 2: Take a look at your character sheet.
Step 3: Realize that you are playing a Bard.
Step 4: Kill yourself.
Oh well, If I can't make a good combat bard, I'll just make a jester!
you are wecome
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It would help us if we knew which aspects of the Bard you felt were important to maintain. (For example, a Marshal has some similar inspiration-based abilities, but is geared more towards the battlefield.)
my RotRL group has a bard who carries 10-15 blankets draped overr his person (think a D&D halfling looking like a hobbit in winter clothes and your close) first round he takes a blanket off and uses mage hand to throw it over the opponent's head, and the duration of the spell is used to put pressure on it and keep it at least partially covering the opponent's head/face. during which time the rest of the party peppers it with arrows. it only successfully happened once so far but it allowed the 1st level PCs to kill a far superior enemy.
Here is the build my friend uses, and his comments:
Level Class Feat
1 Bard Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Combat Expertise
2 fighter Power Attack
3 fighter Dodge, Combat Reflexes
4 Bard
5 Bard
6 Warchanter Mobility
7 Warchanter
8 Warchanter
9 Bard Karmic Strike
10 Dervish
11 Spell Sword
12 Spell Sword Elusive Target, Improved Feint
13 Street Fighter
14 Street Fighter
15 Street Fighter Ironskin Chant, Staggering Strike
Tactics wise, it's pretty simple. Warchanter allows at 3rd level the character to inspire recklessness, so lower your AC down to about 14 or so, Turn on Power attack for full, Turn on Karmic Strike, start up Ironskin Chant. Then provoke attacks of opportunity from the bad guys, and hit back when they hit you. The Ironskin chant and Elusive target mitigate some of the damage you could take (power attack from your dodge opponent with Elusive target is eliminated, Ironskin chant gives a flat 5/- DR)
Against multiple opponents generally I attempt to set up a Whirling Blade that hits at least 3 opponents, then move through the group provoking attacks of opportunity. I can generally generate 4 or 5 attacks per round this way, all of them occurring at the characters highest base attack bonus. Pay close attention to which of the opponents use power attack, and dodge those as you go by.
Against a single opponent I move Aleth in and go toe to toe. In such a case you rely upon the Elusive Target to eliminate the Power Attack that would otherwise kill you outright, and Ironskin Chant to mitigate the damage you take.
Another benefit to this build is that every round you can reassess the amount you drop your AC, and the amount of power attack you use. The result is a character whose AC (at level 12) can range from 15 up to 38 (when moving). In other words, if it suddenly becomes necessary not to be hit, you can do that.
There are however a couple of weaknesses to this build. First, the majority of classes have d6 or d8 Hit dice. That results in a front line fighter that lacks the staying power of a Barbarian/Fighter. In fact, due to this lack of hit points, a fair amount of resources in feats and classes are spent in order to compensate. Dervish gets you out of fights quickly and easily, Elusive target eliminates the opponents ability to reciprocate the damage being done to him, Ironskin Chant reduces the damage being dealt to your character substantially.
A second weakness is against ranged attacks. Inspire recklessness drops the characters AC to the point where just about every single ranged attack will hit. Archers are a bit of a problem, although simply moving up to them before dropping your AC is an easy fix. Even worse is the fact that touch AC also is reduced by Inspire Recklessness, resulting in a touch AC of about 6. Ranged touch and ray focused wizards are the bane of this build.
There is of course room for improvement, and some of the build can be modified as to provide even more mitigation of the negatives associated with it. The primarily way to do this is to eliminate the spell casting of the build. This frees up 3 levels of bard, 2 levels of Spell Sword, eliminates the requirement for a positive Cha. Filling those levels with Barbarian, more fighter, or other type of front line orientated class greatly improves the hit point issue.
Hmmm. Bards can't take Weapon Focus Greatsword at 1st level. They're not proficient with a greatsword.
El Skootro
Hmmm. Bards can't take Weapon Focus Greatsword at 1st level. They're not proficient with a greatsword.
Fine catch. Swap Power Attack and Weapon Focus (greatsword), then.
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So let me get this straight...
Bard are a great class for combat so long as you take other class levels in more combat oriented classes.
Yeah I can see that.
As with most classes, combining classes and feats lead to a far more effective build than a straight class.
Mutts are usually stronger than straight class. Monks and Druids come to mind as exceptions.
I concur that combining classes is a viable option. I am partial to Rogue/Fighter mixes myself. Nothing against mutts as you call them (within reason).
But the question in my mind was not, "how can I best multiclass the bard", it was "how can I make a bard that is good in combat."
The answers tickle me because it would be like saying, Fighters are a great class for spellcasting so long as you take class levels in a more spell oriented class.
Moreover, there's nothing in the rules preventing people from taking lots of classes. If you don't like multiclassing, that's your problem.
Multi-classing is fine. It is the glutton of prestige classes that are the problem. Prestige classes are supposed to define your character, not be another power boost to slap on without any consideration as to how you learned or developed the abilities.
I've never played a bard before, but I'm interested. The campaigns I usually play in tend to be very combat-heavy. Suggestions?
No. But they do serve wonderfully as the butt of jokes to keep the other players amused. I'm quite certain that this is the entire purpose of the bard class. Especially if they're gnomes.
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In a Ptolus campaign, I recently player a bard who used two prestige classes to become essentially a bardish-gish.
Bard to 7th level, then took Knight of the chord to 10th. This is a martial class based off of the bard. You get the use of medium armor w/o arcane spell failure, and a couple of other minor abilities in the 1st 3 levels.
After 10th level, make a straight run through Sublime Chord. you will reach 9th level arcane spells, and you can take wizard spells instead of bard.
the character was semi-retired at 13th level. Wearing mithril full plate and using a standard defensive suite, he had an AC in the high 20s, but had access to 6th level arcane spells to supplement his melee abilities. Oh, he also fought with a sonic greatsword for maximized combat oomph. Of course his 10 strength was somewhat of a problem...
If you don't want to use the Ptolus class, simply take the feat from complete arcane that allows you to wear medium armor for the same benefit.