Ideal times to level-up

[Sean Mahoney]

I am running my SC campaign with an alternate rule in which I level up the PCs at appropriate times in the story rather than worry about counting XP. It seems to be working well, but I thought I would hit you all up for your ideas on when the best times to level up is.

2nd - Descending into Jzadirune (after significant RP and such)
3rd - Going down into the Malachite Fortress
4th - End of Drakthar's Way
5th - After the Lucky Monkey6th - End of Flood Season?
7th - Arrival at Bal-Hamatugn
8th - End of Zenith Trajectory
9th - Arrival at Vaprak's Voice
10th - End of Demonscar Legacy
11th - Arrival at the Plain of Cysts
12th - End of Test of the Smoking Eye
13th - End of Secrets of the Soul Pillars
14th - After House Rhiavaldi
15th - End of Lords of Oblivion
16th - End of Foundation of Flame
17th - ???
18th - End of Thirteen Cages
19th - End of the Strike of Shatterhorn
20th - Just before the fight with Adimarchus

Let me know what you think!

Sean Mahoney

[Oliver von Spreckelsen]

This sounds great. I had a different approach for my Shackled City campaigns, but for my Freeport campaign I use a similar approach (Level up when i say so).

[ericthecleric]

If you don't use XP, then what happens if someone wants to make a magic item and/or cast a spell with an XP requirement? Just something to think about.

[Fake Healer]

Craft Points from the SRD(unearthed arcana, alternate skills section) would work for making items.

[thereal thom]

DM could be tracking experience too. Imagine the look on the player's face when the DM says "Everyone level up. OH, but not YOU, Mr. Rod of Awesome Might creator."

[Saurstalk]

I don't know if we're answering his questions.

Honestly, in my games I level up in two ways:

1. Online Play : I award XP as its earned (or shortly thereafter). Because there are delays in this "play by post" method between posting, that allows characters to level-up practically anytime.

2. Game Table Play : At the end of every session, I lay out the XPs accumulated. If that means that someone levels up for the next session, then so be it.

So, ideal time to level-up? I go with XPs and assuming that you are playing at a game table, I recommend awarding XPs at the end of each session.

[siege]

So far, my group has been leveling a bit more often than that, probably because there are only five of them (they did most of chapter 1 with four), and the game is meant for six.

I also tend to hand out XP at the end of every game session. We play marathon sessions, so the group tends to go pretty far every time we get together, but I do have very specific rules about what can and cannot be done when leveling "part way though a chapter" (ie, with no time to stop and learn new skills).

Anyway, I track an XP total that is the same for every member of the party. When XP gets spent (crafting) or lost (level drain), the affected players track a separate number that represents how much they're down from my number. It's more or the less traditional system, except that there are no specific rewards for any individual player - only penalties.

My players currently have earned enough XP to hit 5th level at the end of chapter 2, but I haven't given them their latest reward yet because Drakthar took a heavy toll on them: our cleric is down one level and the rogue is down two. They're not in sight of restoration spells, so if they fail those fort saves, it's lost XP.

[Sean Mahoney]

Crafting was actually my big concern with this method as I also had promised them down time between each adventure in which they could use craft feats (something many games, like those the previous DM of this group, simply don't give you, making the feats a waste). So, after looking at craft points quite a lot I decided for a more liberal stance and told them they could craft away as long as I didn't feel they were abusing the privelage. So far it is working.

To be fair I don't think this would have worked with past groups I have run with, but this one is older (on average around 35, I am one of the younger ones at 31) and I think that makes a big difference.

Honestly I feel the levelling up has been working out with the exception that I think I gave them their latest one a little early (at the end of the lucky monkey... I should have waited until they found the lava tubes). Making the above list should help me prevent from making that mistake again... and now I just don't have them level up again until after Flood Season... shouldn't hurt anything.

Of more concern for me has been treasure levels. These players don't search bodies and get gear and such very often (only on the big badies) just leaving scores of MW weapons behind. I have had to take to handing out extra rewards from the town folk (Jenya, etc.) to keep them in line with what their level should be.

But am I correct in assuming that no one has better times they feel level ups should occur? For those of you using other methods do these times fall roughly around where you have had level ups?

Sean Mahoney

[Shimrath]

Sean,

I too have been leveling my group at set points in the adventure path. I think it’s vital to insure that the characters are the proper level for encounters they face, as opposed to possibly being too weak or too strong. In my opinion, it’s a lot more fun for everyone if the challenges are balanced.

In my experience, it also eliminates the mentality that is so common in D&D - the idea that searching out and killing every encounter will net more XP, allowing characters to level up faster. I find that leveling the party at certain points in the adventure path encourages the opposite mentality, leading to encounters in which the party talks instead of fighting, or even seeks to avoid encounters all together.

I skipped Drakthar’s Way, but I leveled my group at pretty much the same points that you listed above. We are currently playing Zenith Trajectory, the heroes having just defeated Gotrrod and, so far, no complaints from any of the players regarding the alternate leveling system. The game has been a heck of a lot of fun for DM and players alike.

It sounds to me like we are handling Item Creation in a similar fashion as well. I gave all spellcasters access to the IC feats automatically upon reaching the requisite level, and have been awarding “Item Creation XP” based on participation in the game, good roleplaying, good ideas, etc. The players use this ICXP to create items (or to have the party spellcasters create them on their behalf). So far, this system has been working fine.

ICXP awards grow higher based on the current chapter, so a 10 point award in Chapter One would be a 50 point award in Chapter Five.

For example:

All players gained 50 ICXP for writing a background, even for their second character in the game.

Chapter One:

Gron gained 5 ICXP for using Lucinda's doll to help Rocky track her by scent.

Gilias gained 10 ICXP for suggesting that some of the treasure might belong to ex-prisoners.

Lethalia gained 15 ICXP for stopping the automaton with a verbal command.

Malki gained 5 ICXP for assisting the DM to calculate the treasure split.

Chapter Two:

Gilias gained 10 ICXP for crying during the battle when Khor fell.

Titus gained 30 ICXP for engaging the T-rex skeleton in hand to hand combat even though safer options were available.

Gron gained 30 ICXP for technical support when Diggory couldn't get online.

[Dedekind]

I've been doing both story and xp. There was another thread that talked about Smoking Eye not giving enough xp and my party certainly wouldn't have been 12th at the end if I didn't just give it.

As a suggestions towards you specific level points, you may want to consider leveling to 13 prior to the end of Soul Pillars. Vitriss Bale is a CR 16 so you may or may not want to put them up against him at 12th level. Maybe someone else has specific input on that point...?

I think I gave 4th a little early (pre-Tongueeater) and that made the Lucky Monkey too easy.

[ibramthefish]

My group of 6 is just about to descend into the Kopru ruins. They are all 4th but I am planning to award xp for the various Flood Festival activities they took part in, and am thinking of giving them enough to make all but one of them 5th. They have high stats though not great gear, and there are an awful lot of CRs down there. Do people think a group of 6 4ths can handle it - alternatively, will 5 5ths and a 4th be too strong?

[nib]

My system follows the traditional one, but I track the numbers for everyone. I also half the XP for "zombie" character that is PCs in the party where the player is missing. I make an effort to shift PCs away from the group when the players are absent, but it doesn't work out always. The XP cut encourages people to actually show up.

From the path, I've found that, as long as your group is between 5 and 7 players, the traditional system works very well. I even observe that characters who fall behind (due to player absence) quickly catch up due to the different XP calculation based on the ECL.

While the story point based system is very appalling and certainly justified, the classic XP for everyone also works. And the XP cost for items is a good thing, as it keeps some balance, which over time is automagically equalized (Ok, your wizard will obviously never be the highest level character, but he won't fall behind much).

Cheers,
Nib