I apologize if it was mentioned, but most of the devil worship crap in the US was due to Patricia Pulling.
See here for some of the controversies: Link
I have been lucky to not have to deal with too much of this growing up. Being treated as a outcast geek was more of a problem. My girlfriend's sister still cannot believe my current gaming group includes a couple of scientists, a computer programer, and a lawyer.
I got ridiculed a little bit from an aunt (and her entire family) and an older sister (I'm the youngest). This aunt (And her entire family, which included her children their spouses, and grand-children) attended the Church of Christ (which is an oddity here in Utah) and had at times gone off about that evil game. My sister at the time also attended services there and she'd often tell her children that the game was evil. They refused to play most of the time, which was sad, as it was my nephews and nieces I played with the most.
My brothers sons, and my oldest sisters kids would play the most often. My brother simply thought I was a dork for playing it, if he thought anything at all. My older sister I'd like to try and convince to play, as I think she'd enjoy it. She hasn't played to this point as she thinks she wouldn't have the time, or doesn't want to stay up late.
As for my parents. Well, I'm sure they were concerned at first, but the let it go. My father put it to some neighbors when they asked about it while I was a freshman (or sophmore, don't remember which): "At least it keeps him out of trouble, he's not out getting drunk, and he's not knocking any one up."
I'll talk about games with my mother occasionally now. I think she feels it's silly, but she let's me share the antics of my players, or my own characters. My sisters youngest son has started playing, but she's stopped attending The Church of Christ.
I got very little flak from folks from the LDS Church (mormons for those outside of Utah) to their credit. It's not that there isn't some of that attitude amoungst them, it's just a little less fire and brim stone. Though most have a cautious indifference.
I have gmed and played with: LDS, Pagans, non-denominational spiritualist, christians, and agnostic skeptics like myself. So while I'm very relieved that I never suffered some of the ridiculous criticism and ignorance some on here have suffered, I still wince when someone brings up D&D who doesn't know anything about it, simply because it can turn to the devil-worshipping quickly (and has in the past). When that does happen, I try to explain it thusly: "It's essentially part improvisational acting and cooperative storytelling held together by tactical rules for ease of adjudication." That tends to at least get them interested in examples and clarifications.
Ah HEM!!! This is Dungeons and Dragons! We worship Dragons and Dungeons, not Demons and Devils.
that is probably the sort of comment that would make somebody a litt less eager to play D&D.
Just a little.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I first started playing right before all of the anti-D&D hype really got big in the US. My mother was fairly encouraging because she had faith in me as a decent kid, but the cousins I played with often had to defend the game to their parents. I knew it was a bogus claim even as a kid, but flipping through some of the monster books and the DMG I saw lots of mystical symbols and illustrations of bare-breasted demons. This kind made it feel like I was doing something dirty and covert. Oddly enough that was a huge part of the charm. In a way I miss the controversy and the feeling that I was involved in something shady.
Well I am the wife in afore mentioned post. Thank you dear...
Let me begin by saying that my parents are basically good people in spite of their atrocious lack of openness to new things. I am the only daughter and if Jesus himself had come a-courtin' he would never have been good enough so Fizz, bless him, had no chance with them to begin with. Being from the rural South, I had heard D&D was a horrible soul stilling game long before I was ever introduced to it. Of course they said the same thing about Harry Potter till a few sobbing parents testified that their precious little ones had never read more than a Dick and Jane book before the miraculous coming of the J.K.R. books. Since basically all they are is a contest between good and evil within and without, it was dicided that perhaps the label of "wizard" or "witch" could be overlooked. I am still woefully inept at our favorite RPGs but I'm catching up with Fizz...well not really he's years ahead but I'm trying. I'm of the opinion that these games can help young adults in a lot of ways and should be encouraged rather than put down as a shameful lot. It upsets me to know that the public is so misinformed.
Sorry for the ramble...
'Zola
Thanks dear, good to know that I didn't have to go up agaisnt Jesus.
I don't think you're parents would have liked him any way. He had long hair, was unemployed, kicked around with 12 other dudes and a prostitute , and wasn't of the same religion.
Fizz
p.s. pick up your cell, I've called a couple of times
If i could change one thing, it would be to give D&D a better reputation.
Ah HEM!!! This is Dungeons and Dragons! We worship Dragons and Dungeons, not Demons and Devils.that is probably the sort of comment that would make somebody a litt less eager to play D&D.
Just a little.
By Tiamat, stop oppressing my religion! Or I will sacrifice a Kobold.
(~looks at Google to verify spelling~ WFT?!? There is really a Church of Tiamat? Damn!)
If i could change one thing, it would be to give D&D a better reputation.
~grumbles~ Do I have to agree with him?
(~grins~ I agree. However, things are getting better.)
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I have not got the Devil Worship thing in YEARS!!!!!!!!! ((34 now)
But I do get from my wife all the time... When are you going to stop playing these Kid Games!!!!.
No matter how much I try to explain to her it is an Adult game she just does not see it.. (Same problem with Video Games)
My wife is from another culture which does not help *Turkish* But she is not Christian which is why I do not get the Devil Worship thing..
But D&D barely made a dent in Turkey so good or bad rep never made it to the populace.
When I hear that the hysteria hasn't died down, my inital response is- don't these zealots have bigger fish to fry? Oh, I don't know, hows about:
Poverty?
Social justice for the poor?
Education?
Stavation?
Healthcare for those who can't afford it?
Gun violence?
BLASPHEMER!
A lot of wars were fought because someone believed in a different god.
Largely incorrect, I think. They were never about religion. They were about money, and politics; they were about power; they were about greed. Religion was just a convenient excuse. It always has been. If it wasn't around, another would be substituted.
Not to come off as anti-religious, mind you. I'm very pro-religion, I think everyone should have one. I just don't think they ought to ever get together, or talk about it. Religion should be a personal thing.
Yes and no. I whole-heartedly agree that religion should be a personal thing, and feel that more people need to find some faith (I am this at Bible-thumping hypocrits who don't have an ounce of spirituality in them). But it should be discussed. People should be open about it. What other way is there to learn tolerance and gain perspective and wisdom? Of course, that's never going to happen, but we were kind of already in hypotheticals, anyway....
By the way, I've never had to deal with intolerance. I grew up watching animated versions of Narnia. My mother worried about me some when I started taking interest in things involving combat- she would fret and (jokingly) make me promise to not grow up into an "axe-murderer." Cancer took her before I started playing D&D, but I think I would have had a bit of a struggle convincing her it was okay, though (she'd have come around, I'm sure). Ironically, she indirectly got me into it in the first place, by picking up the Dragonlance Chronicles one Christmas. She had no clue what they were, but I loved them. :) My father is even more accepting and encouraging of it, and would like to play (mainly to share time with me) if he had the time to learn it.
If i could change one thing, it would be to give D&D a better reputation.
I think WotC is doing a fine job of that already.
Snicker.
... unbelievable sounding things about south africa...
I´m aghast at this report. This sounds like a mixture of middle ages religion and fascist behaviour, coupled with abuse of authority. Luckily you got out of this crap.
After all these accounts, I´m more than happy that my family just thinks that this game is some childish stuff, and I should have grown out of it. I don´t even mention it anymore when they are around. And my fiancée luckily plays RPGs, so there is no problem with that.
There is no "official" stance on RPGs in Germany. If anything, LARPing is slowly gaining acceptance, as it is viewed as a fun pastime, if somewhat strange (LARPing even got some mention in regional TV and newspapers). P&P games are still too unknown to provoke any reaction. But the recent fantasy surge (LotR movies, Harry Potter) has positively influenced most people. There are a few voices decrying Harry Potter as promoting witchcraft, but these are far and few, and viewed mostly as religious nutjobs.
Most folks view RPGs as what they really are: a fun pastime of a somewhat strange minority.
Stefan
Also for me the only problem comes from the geek factor, outside couple of sensational news articles in low profile newspapers etc nobody makes devil worship connection (well, except players themselves, many of which joke about it).
Growing up in rural Ireland, you'd think D&D would be pilloried, but not at all.?
Ditto. Not a peep and I went to a Christian Brothers school.
When I hear that the hysteria hasn't died down, my inital response is- don't these zealots have bigger fish to fry? Oh, I don't know, hows about:
Poverty?
Social justice for the poor?
Education?
Stavation?
Healthcare for those who can't afford it?
Gun violence?
Don't you know? if you're poor it means you havn't prayed hard enough! It least that's the general idea I get whenever Beyonce talks about god (hers . Not mine.)
On a related note, I've been in the US for three years now, and am struck by the weird conflict I see here- a nation that espouses the rights of the individual and celebrates the pioneer, yet wants conformity and places a premium on The Team.
Is this a symptom of this?
You get the same s**t in Australia. A smug, sense of National pride but it's got OUR sort of pride-
..sorry...off topic...dammit....:)
... unbelievable sounding things about south africa...I´m aghast at this report. This sounds like a mixture of middle ages religion and fascist behaviour, coupled with abuse of authority. Luckily you got out of this crap.
After all these accounts, I´m more than happy that my family just thinks that this game is some childish stuff, and I should have grown out of it. I don´t even mention it anymore when they are around. And my fiancée luckily plays RPGs, so there is no problem with that.
There is no "official" stance on RPGs in Germany. If anything, LARPing is slowly gaining acceptance, as it is viewed as a fun pastime, if somewhat strange (LARPing even got some mention in regional TV and newspapers). P&P games are still too unknown to provoke any reaction. But the recent fantasy surge (LotR movies, Harry Potter) has positively influenced most people. There are a few voices decrying Harry Potter as promoting witchcraft, but these are far and few, and viewed mostly as religious nutjobs.
Most folks view RPGs as what they really are: a fun pastime of a somewhat strange minority.
Stefan
Drachenfest! W00t!
Alright, enough off-topic there for one day.
Fortunately for me growing up in a country that has so much things to worry about, D&D is one of those things that nobody really cares about in a bad way. Picking on videogames is the current trend, something about Manhunt 2, and to be honest nobody really gives a damn.
I went to a rather strict Christian school and even though some of the teachers were total fanatics, we got permission to start up an after-school D&D group, including full use of a beamer and access to a classroom from 13.30 till 16.30 on fridays(school closing time).
I think the main reason we got this all so easily was because we went as a delegation to a teacher's meeting and explained exactly what we would be doing. We passed around the 9 corebook sets around the table(mind you, our school had over 1500 students so thats a lot of teachers) and explained the benefits of playing; increased math skills, social contact, reading, problem solving, etc. We answered a dozen questions, including the 'devil tainted' ones and by the end of 30 minutes of explaining and us being really nervous we got the go ahead.
The fact that all of us were final year students helped, plus the mix of courses was incredibly mixed(4 VMBO, 2 HAVO, 1 VWO, 2 Athaneum+) and that some of the people with us were the best(Athaneum+) students the school had at that time.
The only problems we had after that were the sorry little losers that came to pester us during our games by hanging out in front of the classroom's windows. Taking 5 minute beat'em'up breaks every now and then solved that problem quite easily.
2 cents,
Keep the stories coming, they're interesting to read.
Ah HEM!!! This is Dungeons and Dragons! We worship Dragons and Dungeons, not Demons and Devils.
I don't worship Dungeons or Dragons or Demons or Devils.
But I think dragons are really cool!
And if anyone knows how to get Planar Binding (Lesser) from the PHB to work can they let me know.
I been going through a dry spell and could really use a succubus about now!
For conversation and companionship of course.... nothing sordid.
There is really a Church of Tiamat? Damn!)
heh heh heh. Time for the sacrifice of the white dragon!
Hey, wait a minute! I worship Garl Glittergold, not Tiamat! Blasphemer!
On a related note, I've been in the US for three years now, and am struck by the weird conflict I see here- a nation that espouses the rights of the individual and celebrates the pioneer, yet wants conformity and places a premium on The Team.
Is this a symptom of this?
Pretty much.
U.S. society is, in general, both obsessive and schizoid. We suffer from the curse of "diversity in conformity." Everyone wants to be "different," but in a way that associates them with a particular group. Then, people obsess over "us and them" or "everyone should be like the group." In some ways, I think that U.S. society is stuck in the high school clique mentality.
There is really a Church of Tiamat? Damn!)
Yep! Tiamat is a Babylonian goddess.
Don't think she is a five headed dragon with shapeshifting abilities though
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There is really a Church of Tiamat? Damn!)Yep! Tiamat is a Babylonian goddess.
Don't think she is a five headed dragon with shapeshifting abilities though
She didn't have five heads, but she was a shapeshifting dragon. I believe the legend goes that after she was slain by Marduk, her body became the earth.
Following the "other evil things" part of this thread. I had a player for a long time that I knew was a little off kilter, but the two rules I enforce at my table (among the normal host rules)...
1-No talking politics; and
2-No talking real world religion.
...kept things pretty normal as far as his behavior.
Before I had to institute this rule I had learned that he had his own Judeo/Christain cult and claimed that he went out some nights with his sword looking for Satanic cultists, which he claimed were rampant here in Las Vegas. What exactly he planned to do when he found them, I don't even want to know. But, the thought of him going out looking to make trouble with them just struck me as "evil" in and of itself. The old idiom, "Don't go looking for trouble and trouble won't come looking for you," is not just a saying. Had he said he went out looking for devil worshippers with a Bible in his hand, that would seem a bit less... hypocritical and evil... to me.
Whatever, though. My theory is that he had a little Don Quixote thing going on.
The fact that all of us were final year students helped, plus the mix of courses was incredibly mixed(4 VMBO, 2 HAVO, 1 VWO, 2 Athaneum+) and that some of the people with us were the best(Athaneum+) students the school had at that time.Netherlands?
Bingo. Born, bred, raised.
Ah HEM!!! This is Dungeons and Dragons! ...
..could use a succubus
For conversation and companionship of course.... nothing sordid.
Baah and you call yourself a Pagan.
I don't worship the devil. My dark lords forbids it. He is a jealious deity. Bloods and souls oh dark lord, Blood and Souls.Oooomn Nok Bith Thor!! <swapp> Ouch!
Sorry I'll try to stay away from the religion and the dark speach.
Baah and you call yourself a Pagan.
Other people call me Pagan.
And I may have been lying when I said nothing sordid.....
No I went to good ol'crappy public school. I grew up in a small town in Tennessee like 2,500 people. It's a good meaty part of the bible beat. The three dominate denominations in my home town are Southern Baptist, Church of Christ, and Pentecostal. Don't know if anybody knows much about those groups, but...not really tolerant in my area.
2,500? That's a thriving metropolis, mate. I grew up in Cowan, TN and had many of the same issues: public (and mandatory) prayer in the public schools, intolerant holier-than-thous, etc. Where in TN are you from?
/threadjack
El Skootro
No I went to good ol'crappy public school. I grew up in a small town in Tennessee like 2,500 people. It's a good meaty part of the bible beat. The three dominate denominations in my home town are Southern Baptist, Church of Christ, and Pentecostal. Don't know if anybody knows much about those groups, but...not really tolerant in my area.
2,500? That's a thriving metropolis, mate. I grew up in Cowan, TN and had many of the same issues: public (and mandatory) prayer in the public schools, intolerant holier-than-thous, etc. Where in TN are you from?
/threadjack
El Skootro
Holy Crap another TNin. I'm original from Carroll County. I live in Knoxville now.
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I'm not a big tattoo person, but if pressed, I'd get an upside down crucifixion, as testament to my unworthiness.
As a youngster I put the mark of the beast in my flesh and to this day it has created some unusual situations. The best was the date that saw it and actually chucked a glass of water in my face and left. So much for loving christians...
*my friend's mom burned all his d&d books because her church told her to. They also said the books would scream and emit purple/green smoke hahaha
THE DARKNESS INVADES ALL!!!!!!!
Or in other words, I have indeed dealt with the scourge of bad PR that follows Darryl & Duhan (as I call it to avoid the nerd card; if anyone asks I tell them I'm talking about my two friends). In the early 90s I had to explain to my father why I would play a game that forces me to confront evil - do I really have to go into why the struggles of life and conflict make good fiction, dad? Or do you just want me to admit that I enjoy the sizzling demonic blood that invades my heart when I roll a die?
In fact, it wasn't even Darryl & Duhan that brought the ire of my Christian school's faculty upon me, it was the twin evils of Stephen King and Cyberpunk. I was flat out told I was not a Christian if I read King and was told that Cyberpunk was prophecy of an ungodly future. I was young and impressionable but still, it didn't make me guilty for reading and playing, it made me distrust their guidance and rebel against their strictures.
It is a sad thing see a game that requires creativity, learning, and problem solving to such a high degree being judged by only its peripheral merits.
I for one think that if more people played Darryl & Duhan, we would have a better world.
In summation:
ALLOW THE DARKNESS TO NURSE YOUR ESSENCE!!!!!!!!!!!! SUCKLE THE BLACK ABYSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this message has been paid for by The Master of the Dark Vault
*my friend's mom burned all his d&d books because her church told her to. They also said the books would scream and emit purple/green smoke hahaha
What colour smoke you get from burning a moron? If the church told her to stick her head in an oven would she?
I was flat out told I was not a Christian if I read King and was told that Cyberpunk was prophecy of an ungodly future. I was young and impressionable but still, it didn't make me guilty for reading and playing, it made me distrust their guidance and rebel against their strictures.
Cyberpunk is prophecy? I thought it was fiction!
And if you are not a christian because you read King, does that mean that his books are holy texts?
DARKNESS, DARRRRKNESSSSSS!!!!!!!
Anyway, yes, Cyberpunk is fiction but also (according to this renard that told me so) a gateway to a future that The Enemy would delight in. Honestly, I agree, I'm sure the devil would love corporations to rule humanity (they kind of already do) but that's the draw of Cyberpunk: YOU"RE FIGHTING AGAINST THEM! :-E
And Stephen King is holy text, I thought you knew. At least, the Lo-Men treat it as such.
THE VAULT WILL GUIDE US, FALL FOREVER IN THE ETERNAL SHADOW OF...ok I'm tired of writing.
I have not got the Devil Worship thing in YEARS!!!!!!!!! ((34 now)
As I mentioned earlier, I never really got accused of devil worship. My mother did make me watch "Mazes and Monsters," which is a really bad movie.
For the most part, the whole "D&D is Satannic" stigma seems to have faded from the Baton Rouge area of Louisiana, not that it really seemed to be a big issue. There are still a lot of people that think it is a kids game or that gammers are socially inept geeks that are not in touch with the real world.
There are still a lot of people that think it is a kids game or that gammers are socially inept geeks that are not in touch with the real world.
Games are for those that enjoy them. Not just kids.
The real world sucks!
I'm not a socially inept geek!
Ok. Maybe I am!
All this makes me feel very fortunate. My parents never minded, I didn't get teased (didn't say to much to my "peers" though) and I had older friends teach me the ropes and show me how enjoyable it was to play. Though my home town had a population of 2000 and 20 churches I suppose it kept any one religion from having a majority (though I think they were all christian). So I never had to deal with the "satan" aspect.
As for the rest of people that had or are having problems, All the best to you. Keep spreading tolerance one dice roll at a time.
I for one think that if more people played Darryl & Duhan, we would have a better world.
Won't that be hard when the players only refer to the game in code? Kind difficult to get new people into the fold if they don't know what you're talking about.... (I apologize if I've missed some ironic context here)
Baah and you call yourself a Pagan.Other people call me Pagan.
And I may have been lying when I said nothing sordid.....
Yes that is what I like to hear.
Yess..., Ok
The Dark Lord is pleased as well.
*my friend's mom burned all his d&d books because her church told her to. They also said the books would scream and emit purple/green smoke hahaha
Well did they?
Nah the smoke is blue and pink. Obviously NOT "evil" colors. Though I could almost make out a 100 little voices screaming lala lalalala lalalalala as they burnt. Also something that sounded like a small elephants trumpet.
]
So you heard the elephant too. Did you see it. Did it have wings? was it flying?thanks for laughs yuk yuk yuk
I'm really glad i found this thread. I recently started playing with some friends and i wanted to start a real group but my mom(whom i would not hurt for the world) thinks it's evil and that she knows all about it, but she lets me play WoW. I've been looking for something a little more stimulating lately as well. I know that if i went out and bought some books she would get really pissed and destroy me. I wanted to know if you guys have any suggestions.
ty
cman
btw im 16
I would suggest getting the PHB and trying to explain some of it to her. Let here know what's going on.
I would also tell here it's what WoW is based on (be careful). You can also bring up C.S. Lewis, LotR, and other popular media.
Remember to explain all the math, read, and writing that's involved. "Yeah mom see you do the math equation to figure out..." "Well yeah but you need to divide that by the damage and double check the..." "Hey mon Mrs. Robinson was nice enough to proofread my story for my character. She's a really nice teacher"
You might even bring up how you haven't been what as much TV or playing video games.
I snuck around for years. It sucks trying to lug a really heavy back pack full of books with a map sticking out of it past your parents.
Fizz
p.s. Don't be a dumb ass and break out the BoVD or the BoED. I had a friend do this while he was trying to defend D&D agaisnt claims of Satanism.
I would also tell here it's what WoW is based on.
While I wouldn't discourage this, be aware that it could also backfire and get WoW banned, too. I trust the poster will know the situation well enough to weigh the possible outcomes, though.
It was never an issue with my parents. My mother barely tolerates a friend of a friend that's the loopy type to fall for the D&D as Satanism nonsense. I discovered some years after the fact that the one time this obnoxious friend of a friend started in on it, my mother ended the conversation with the blunt declaration that it was only a game and she ought to get off it.
You can also bring up C.S. Lewis, LotR, and other popular media.
This is how I got my father to at least accept fantasy as a genre...both of these authors used fantasy elements in their writings, and both were Christians. In the case of C.S. Lewis, he was the greatest writer of Christian apologetics in the 20th century, and greatly respected by my dad. Early in Lewis' life, he was an atheist, who converted to Christianity after long talks with his close friend and staunch Catholic, J.R.R. Tolkien. It wasn't until the Lord of the Rings movies came out that I finally persuaded my dad to give it a try. He was so blown away by the films that he actually bought and read the LotR trilogy. I was utterly stunned, even more so when he said to me afterward "I understand now why you were attracted to that stuff." That was a huge admission, coming from him after a couple decades of hostility.
In fact, the best angle to defend fantasy and our hobby against misguided Christians is to use C.S. Lewis & Tolkien. Almost all the time when I hear someone object to D&D, they're objecting to the genre of fantasy, not the actual type of game (RPG). Not a lot of outcry against Top Secret, Spycraft, GURPS Old West, etc. If you can blunt the "fantasy is evil" argument, you've already won the battle. Lewis & Tolkien are your best weapons to do so.
The entire Chronicles of Narnia series is one big huge Christian allegory (as well as a pretty dang good fantasy story to boot.) Tolkien isn't so blatant with the allegory, but the themes he stresses - good triumphing over evil in the face of adversity, rejection of temptation - are nothing as a Christian I can object to. When the subject of demons and devils come up, discuss C.S. Lewis' work "The Screwtape Letters", which is a compilation of fictional correspondence between a senior devil and his junior. Magic? Give 'em Aslan & Gandalf. The list goes on. If faithful Christians such as Lewis & Tolkien can use fantasy, why can't we?
As a Christian myself, I often have to sadly shake my head at those who go off the deep end regarding D&D. The early church faced horrific persecutions and bloody martyrdom at the hands of Roman emperors, and yet their faith remained unshaken. Are some people's faith so weak today that they can't even handle a game where people play pretend? On second thought, I already know the answer.
"Hey mon Mrs. Robinson was nice enough to proofread my story for my character. She's a really nice teacher"
Ha! I think mom might have more to worry about in “Mrs. Robinson” than in D&D.
p.s. Don't be a dumb ass and break out the BoVD or the BoED.
Oiy. That thing seeing print was my worst nightmare as a D&D apologist.
People walk around with mediocre modern Stephen King and Dean Koontz novels in their mitts every day in every office around the country. Is anyone pointing at them and screaming, "Devil luvaaaah!" I guess all the grandparents who keep Ghost Whisperer on the air should be stoned in the square as well.
"Waiter, there's metaphysics in my soup."
"What would you like me to do about that, sir?
"Fear the soup, garcon. Fear the soup."
"Right away, sir."