If you were putting a team together of the ultimate heroes who would you prefer?
Putting aside the the fact that Optimus is more powerful who would make the better field commander not neccesarily better fighter. For example when the JLA/Avengers teamed up both teams picked Cap as the overall team leader and Superman as the point man.
If you were putting a team together of the ultimate heroes who would you prefer?
Putting aside the the fact that Optimus is more powerful who would make the better field commander not neccesarily better fighter. For example when the JLA/Avengers teamed up both teams picked Cap as the overall team leader and Superman as the point man.
Captain America.
He has no real powers, and therefore is less powerful than his teammates, but is still effective and commands their respect, plus is a brilliant tactician.
Optimus Prime (and I love the transformers) is more like Thor or Superman. He is a leader, but he is also one of the most powerful guys (or bots) on his team.
IMHO, Captain America is a better leader because of his disadvantages.
Tough choice. I'd say put Cap in charge. I love Optimus, but he'd do better as a point man. That said, I want Cap as my field commander, but Optimus might do better as the commander in chief.
Can we just make Optimus a Headmaster with Cap as his partner?
*ducks bricks hurled by angry mob*
Optimus Prime, because:
1. He's got both strategic vision and tactical skill
2. He's been around a lot longer that Captain America
3. He can go mano-a-mano with Megatron; Cap would be a red smear
4. "Liberty is the right of all sentient beings."
5. The Matrix of Leadership chose him, not Captain America. :P
Plus, I don't see Captain America concealing a freakin' axe made out of LASERS in his arm!
I want Optimus as point man just to avoid Megatron trying to stomp on Captain America. In the JLA/Avengers crossover, Cap wasn't on the field-the battle came to him. Superman led the charge, and here, I'd want Optimus to do the same. Yes, Prime has the years of experience. No arguing that. Prime inspires loyalty, no arguing that either. And yes, "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" is a good motto. But Cap has led the Avengers into combat even against superior foes and triumphed repeatedly. He's beaten opponents far more more powerful than himself on a regular basis. When a bunch of people who don't know you all just decide "You're in charge", that's a sign of leadership, charisma, and competency (or maybe desperation or insanity). I love Optimus, but I still want Cap in charge. Besides, would you want Cap leading the charge on Megatron while Prime's giving orders?
I'd prefer Optimus, but the cartoon one, not the Michael Bay one :)No question. Give me Steve Rogers. LEts see Optimus Prime compensate for when his team roster is changing every few seconds.
Well, borrowing from STNG Data could perform a million x million caculations per second. I'm assuming Primes CPU would be even faster so keeping up with the rotating roster that Cap faced in JLA/Avengers shouldn't be a problem.
But let me put it another way, lets say Captain America and Optimus Prime were both incapacited. Who would you want to be your team leader?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'd prefer Optimus, but the cartoon one, not the Michael Bay one :)No question. Give me Steve Rogers. LEts see Optimus Prime compensate for when his team roster is changing every few seconds.Well, borrowing from STNG Data could perform a million x million caculations per second. I'm assuming Primes CPU would be even faster so keeping up with the rotating roster that Cap faced in JLA/Avengers shouldn't be a problem.
But let me put it another way, lets say Captain America and Optimus Prime were both incapacited. Who would you want to be your team leader?
No contest... Oracle. ;-)
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Captain America. He dealt with cosmic threats that make Megatron or whoever look like a greased pig roundup. He can fight robots, no big dealyo. He was always running at Nazzy tanks and jumping on their turrets and smacking whoever poked their heads up outta the top with his shield. He could dust up Megatron.
I'm sorry, but as an avid follower/sidekick type, Optimus Prime doesn't do it for me. He's just so flat. He's got no pizzazz. He's got zero personality. I'd feel doomed in any and all endeavours.
With Cap in the lead, and my own skilled abilities (staff, ligers,) I think I could whup up on Galactus. Not so with that dishwater personality Optimus.
Optimus Prime doesn't do it for me. He's just so flat. He's got no pizzazz. He's got zero personality. I'd feel doomed in any and all endeavours.
With Cap in the lead, and my own skilled abilities (staff, ligers,) I think I could whup up on Galactus. Not so with that dishwater personality Optimus.
I wont deny Cap has faced many threats and cosmic dangers but to say that Optimus Prime doesn't have any personality or pizzazz is dubious at best? If Prime didn't impress you with his leadership, bravery and self sacrifice at the Battle of Autobout City (animated movie) well then I'm afarid you might be a little dead inside. ;)
I wont deny Cap has faced many threats and cosmic dangers but to say that Optimus Prime doesn't have any personality or pizzazz is dubious at best? If Prime didn't impress you with his leadership, bravery and self sacrifice at the Battle of Autobout City (animated movie) well then I'm afarid you might be a little dead inside. ;)Optimus Prime doesn't do it for me. He's just so flat. He's got no pizzazz. He's got zero personality. I'd feel doomed in any and all endeavours.
With Cap in the lead, and my own skilled abilities (staff, ligers,) I think I could whup up on Galactus. Not so with that dishwater personality Optimus.
I cried during that movie as a kid. I was maybe 6, and went to go see it in the theatres... only to witness the horror of seemingly all the first-season transformers getting killed. Especially bad was the gangland execution-style shot to the head from Starscream to finish off Ironhide (? I think it was Ironhide, its been a while) And then Optimus has to go and sacrifice himself?
I think Bumblebee and the Dinobots were like the only first-season autobots to appear in the movie AND survive it.
And now that I'm posting this after reading some 4e threads, its kinda making me think about the comparison of:
Hasbro mercilessly slaughtering the first-season transformers in front of impressionable kids so that they could bring out a new product line = Hasbro/WotC mercilessly slaughtering all the "sacred cows" of traditional DnD in order to boost sales as well.
hmm... well, seeing as how 20+ years later that movie can still bring a tear to my eye, and I've got tons of transformers toys, nostalgia collector's items and DVDs... maybe 4e will work out as well. Maybe. Hopefully.
How about Optimus Primal vs. US Agent?
There I'll have to take the big monkey.
Ooh... battle of the replacements! lol
Yeah, Optimus Primal. USAgent doesn't stand a chance in a fight, and Optimus Primal is a better leader, he held his team together in far away land, etc
We ALL cried during that movie. Never has a marketing department's cruelty to children been so apparent.
Heathensson: release your ligers; my trained dire weasel swarm will eviscerate them in seconds! (plus: Pfft! What kind of villain has ligers for pets? Don't they get confused about their identity and all? And they're vulnerable to Reverse Genetic Engineering Rays)
Who?
Who?
It's the weasel buuudddyyy!!!
Director of Sales
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He's this comedian/actor that says "weasel" a lot.
Pauly IS The Weeeeeeee-ssssssel.
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If you were putting a team together of the ultimate heroes who would you prefer?
Putting aside the the fact that Optimus is more powerful who would make the better field commander not neccesarily better fighter. For example when the JLA/Avengers teamed up both teams picked Cap as the overall team leader and Superman as the point man.
In years past, I may have actually debated this point in my head before answering. The bottom line is that Optimus Prime is too idealistic. He is rigid with rules, and if you don't allow yourself to bind, then a stiff wind will break you. Steve Rogers was a true champion. He fought for what he believed in, no matter the costs. While both have the fabled "fighter's mentality", only one of them had the true heart to put it all on the line. That's the kind of leader to inspire a generation. Optimus would make a great Lieutenant, though.
Steve Rodgers or Optimus Prime...
Ideally, I'd make them co-commanders. For Field Command: Optimus. For Tactical Command: Cap.
I have to agree that the JLA/Avengers crossover making Cap the overall commander speaks mountains to his ability.
If I absolutely had to pick (and I don't want to, they're both about equal). I like Captain America's strategies better. Otherwise, they're on even footing.
Oh, and to answer Optimus Primal versus US Agent: Primal wins, hands down.
/d
Optimus Prime. He's got the touch.
He's even got the power.
No way, Cap kicks the s~!! out of Nazis, has a shield that goes WANK! when rebounding and defies the Hero Registration act to the death. He also has fine theme Bar & Restaurant in Dublin. A man of the Ages.
Optimus Prime, on the other hand, is a galactic refugee who turns into a truck- big whoop. A toy from a line that got everyone for nostalgic for the 80's, like we need to go back there again.
I hear ya firbolg. I just don't think they come close.
Hell, I own Captain America issues that predate Transformers... stripes has experience, man.
It depends on the team.
If it were a team made up of transformers Optimus would get the heads up (he understands his people and their attack routines and abilities). If it were a team of human heroes then it would be Steve (he understands human frailties and emotions, and their impact in a tactical situation).
Oh, and talking about their power levels and the like is pointless and ridiculous. It has no impact on their leadership abilities whatsoever.
Optimus Prime, was with the Ohio National Guard in Iraq.
Heh. That guy was kway-zee.
Here's a point for Prime: Captain America leads a team; Optimus Prime leads an entire race. How's that for leadership ability?
Oh, and talking about their power levels and the like is pointless and ridiculous. It has no impact on their leadership abilities whatsoever.
True dat. :)
Optimus Prime, was with the Ohio National Guard in Iraq.Heh. That guy was kway-zee.
Here's a point for Prime: Captain America leads a team; Optimus Prime leads an entire race. How's that for leadership ability?
Kudos to Optimus for leading an entire race. Cap, however, has led Homo sapiens, Homo superior, Asgardians, Eternals, and even Martians and Kryptonians into battle. From multiple universes, no less. Now THAT'S leadership, when gods and mortals alike follow you into battle.
Gruuuuuummmmmmppppppppphhhhhhhh
Cap, however, has led Homo sapiens, Homo superior, Asgardians, Eternals, and even Martians and Kryptonians into battle. From multiple universes, no less. Now THAT'S leadership, when gods and mortals alike follow you into battle.
Well, he's lead some[ homo sapiens and representatives from those races, but not all of them. Unless I'm not up on my Cap history, which is entirely possible. Was he at some point the leader of all humans, mutants, kryptonians, et al.?
Cap, however, has led Homo sapiens, Homo superior, Asgardians, Eternals, and even Martians and Kryptonians into battle. From multiple universes, no less. Now THAT'S leadership, when gods and mortals alike follow you into battle.Well, he's lead some[ homo sapiens and representatives from those races, but not all of them. Unless I'm not up on my Cap history, which is entirely possible. Was he at some point the leader of all humans, mutants, kryptonians, et al.?
Never meant to imply he had been the leader of them all, though at one point in the Avengers they were more or less given authority by the U.N. to do whatever it took to save the world (Avengers 2nd run, somewhere near the end). I merely meant that Cap has proven he can lead peoples from all over, not just his race, and has been put in charge by the very people he leads, repeatedly.
Y'know, I love Optimus like a father, still own a G1 Optimus and a movie edition, and I'm still arguing in Cap's favor. Kinda weird . . . .
Cyclops is WAY better that either of those guys/bots! :P
Cyclops is WAY better that either of those guys/bots! :P
Sorry, no X-Men allowed! This is strictly a choice between Super-Soldiers and alien robots!
Cyclops is WAY better that either of those guys/bots! :POnly because Scott knows enough to defer to Steve.
Hear hear!
Hear hear!Cyclops is WAY better that either of those guys/bots! :POnly because Scott knows enough to defer to Steve.
Didn't Cyclops defer to Captain America's leadership in the first Secert Wars on battleworld at some point?
Well, I mean if you delve far enough into the TF comics you'll find Prime leading aliens, humans, and all kinds of other stuff against the decepticons and universe-eating thingies too, but I'm not sure that counts. Perhaps we should examine character: has Captain America ever folded? Has he betrayed any friends or allies? Has he fought for his creed till the bitter end? Prime sure did.
this thread would be more fun if it was just best comic leader and not so limited to just OP and CA