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The text is 'When you leap, step, or tumble through'
IMO it has to be second because if it's before you move then you haven't moved and therefore haven't fulfilled the condition.
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The text is 'When you leap, step, or tumble through'
IMO it has to be second because if it's before you move then you haven't moved and therefore haven't fulfilled the condition.
Is it possible in the system for things to happen simultaneously? Also, not saying you're wrong but an example of an exception would be how reactions can retroactively occur before a triggering action is completed in the case of critically hitting with reactive strike.
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Maybe. The liturgist ability isn't described as a reaction or trigger so I'm trying to just parse it as close to what I'm seeing as I can, there's probably room for variance there though.
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Maybe. The liturgist ability isn't described as a reaction or trigger so I'm trying to just parse it as close to what I'm seeing as I can, there's probably room for variance there though.
Yeah, I definitely understand. As much as I love this class, there are a lot of little nit picks I have with the wording of parts.
Just an update Michael Sayre was on discord and said
"Or, and hear me out here, maybe those are two completely different things.
Quick Spring's problem was that it was functionally two Strides for the cost of one as a single feat.
Animist had tons of playtest feedback pointing out how quick and easy it was to get Leaps to the same functionality as Strides so the 9th-level liturgist ability is intentionally "a move action with style while you Sustain". (And as others have noted, it's not literally all Strides, because it won't work with e.g. quicken effects that let you Stride.)"
So it's raw and Rai were in fact in alignment
How did you interpret what Sayre wrote as meaning Tumble Through works without having to Tumble Through? That statement from Sayre says nothing about Tumble Through.
That is not a ruling. It's a personal statement.
Tumble Through does this
You Stride up to your Speed. During this movement, you can try to move through the space of one enemy. Attempt an Acrobatics check against the enemy's Reflex DC as soon as you try to enter its space. You can Tumble Through using Climb, Fly, Swim, or another action instead of Stride in the appropriate environment.
It is not a compartmentalized action. It is meant for a specific purpose. The "can try" is only for Tumble Through if you actually use it. Otherwise, it's just a stride and doesn't apply.
My goodness. I absolutely despise when they make rules of this kind and players try to turn a "Tumble Through" action into a "Stride" with a different name.
Why can't the designers write things clear and if they intended Stride, just write when you Stride you sustain the spell.
No way this works at my tables. It certainly isn't RAW or RAI. RAW is the entire explanation including what it is used for.
Another ability to create table arguments. How I love those.
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How did you interpret what Sayre wrote as meaning Tumble Through works without having to Tumble Through? That statement from Sayre says nothing about Tumble Through.
That is not a ruling. It's a personal statement.
It's neither a ruling nor a personal statement; it's just how the rule works. Let's refer to the relevant bit of Sayre's comment:
Animist had tons of playtest feedback pointing out how quick and easy it was to get Leaps to the same functionality as Strides so the 9th-level liturgist ability is intentionally "a move action with style while you Sustain". (And as others have noted, it's not literally all Strides, because it won't work with e.g. quicken effects that let you Stride.)
Not only is Tumble Through intended to be a better Stride (minus the haste synergy), with no requirement to move through an enemy, its resulting synergy with the Liturgist was fully intentional as well. Thus, it is not a "compartmentalized action", and its "specific purpose" is a lot less specific than the purpose of, say, a Stride action.
Another ability to create table arguments. How I love those.
With all due respect, you're the one who resurrected this thread from the dead just to manufacture an argument that had already been long-resolved. Judging by your Animist thread, in which you've been similarly trying to house rule nerfs to the class at every opportunity to justify the premade conclusion that they're not a strong class, the otherwise-unanimous consensus is that Tumble Through lets you move through an enemy's space, but doesn't force you to do so, which is already pretty clear in the rules themselves. This isn't really an argument so much as a fake controversy fabricated and maintained by one single individual.
As well as adding flair, I suspect that breaking the synergy with Haste was probably the main factor, as might be other abilities that have synergy with Stride. Paizo has kept a rigorous line keeping Haste from empowering any kind of spell use, so this maintains that.