RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
They are in the Lotus hideout. They've killed 6 and captured 4. They took out the worg and trashed the rum supplies!
There is a halfling spellthief, a human wizard, a halfling druid and two big barbarians. One barbarian (down to 2 hitpoints) wants to go Forsaker and is refusing all potions and wands - he'll only accept healing from the temple of Tempus at the minute.
So what do they do? The badly wounded barbarian decides to go to the temple, and the other one offers to escort him. The almost-out-of-spells wizard and the two halflings lock themselves in the bedroom to wait. No, seriously.
I sent a quick 3-thief encounter their way and the party took them all prisoner. I estimate another 15 minutes before the barbarians get back.
What to do?
My current plan is to have a larger party of thieves (say 5, or three and two big dogs) try to capture the three of them, while a second group (2 thieves and a lev 2 sorcerer) waits at the beach (they took the water entrance) for the barbarians. I was thinking of making the two attacks simultaneous to let one group try to save the other. The thieves will have thunderstones, tanglefoot bags and alchemists fire.
Too much? Too easy on them? Other ideas? I can't have them splitting the party again! Fools!
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
You say that the party is 'capturing' some of these thieves. What are they doing to keep them from getting free again? Are they unconscious? Bound and gagged? Imprisoned? It might be a good twist (depending on how your party is keeping the thieves in check) to have one of the thieves equipped with a boot knife that he uses to free himself and the other captives who then try to straight-up beat down on the two halflings and the wizard. Unarmed strikes all around! Not very often you get to see a good old-fashioned brawl in D&D.
Having two simultaneous attacks is perfectly fair. Frankly I would have it happen almost right after they part, as soon as they are far enough away that they can't immediately rejoin, and while they have yet to recover fully. It makes clear that they've stirred up a hornet's nest too.
yep, perfectly fair. That is an incredibly stupid move - don't I seem to remember from another post that your group were some veteran tactical-type gamers.... ? WTF are they thinking ?
Consider smoking out the "barricaded" sub-group, to force them to act/move. Possibly go for help to Rowyn (or is it her bedroom ?) as well - after all she is the boss, and would probably intervene to keep her setup operational.
Same goes for Churtle if still alive ( that urchin poison will surely help), the chief-torturer and the taxidermist from the shop above if still around. These guys stand with their backs to the wall, you think they won't bring everyone and the kitchen sink to deal with the attackers ?
Consider a rush with a net or a trapaulin, going for entangling the characters, with a tarpaulin possibly blinding them too (wrapping them up) making them susceptible to (subduing if you feel merciful) sneak attacks. Alternatively throw a smoke bomb - alchemists fire and a couple of buckets filled with hot ash from the fireplace should do the job, flushing the barricaded group out then, then flank-sneak them when they come through the door, half-blinded and gasping... If you feel mean, have them throw in the bomb, then lock the door firmly and let everyone suffocate (think volcanic pyroclasmic discharge cloud...)
Also consider simply blocking the waterside entrance, say by wrecking the winch while the barbarians are outside. Burning wreckage in the tunnels and chambers leading into the complex from there, filling them with smoke (no sight, no air to breathe) to prevent the barbarians returning the way they came. Looking for another way in might really up the pressure some.
Grease a corridor with oil - and shoot at the barbarians down the length of it. See them stumble over the slippey (effectively greased) floor.... can't charge over obstacled ground... possibly toss in a torch to create an impromptu barbecue....
Hit them as hard as you can... it's part#1 after all, they can still recruit, hehe.
Your biggest resource (if Rowyn is already down) should be Robrach the Illusionist - Hypnotic pattern, Colour spray, Silent Image, and a wand with Ray of Enfeeblement.... the perfect guy for a non-lethal take-down
Good luck and... please keep us posted , hehe
Wow, and I thought some of MY players were on the bone-headed side ...
Absolutely, roast those pigeons! (And feed them to the deathbugs.)
Make sure to make them feel like complete idiots for not finishing it when they could. I'm not yet familiar enough with the AP to know what baddies are concievably left at this point, but it isn't out of the question that Rowyn or one of the others couldn't pull in some backup as Vikingson described. An ambush et al. And if all seems lost (and Rowyn isn't captive or something) the retreating baddies just might set fire to the building to cover their tracks and get revenge.
Make sure to make them feel like complete idiots for not finishing it when they could. I'm not yet familiar enough with the AP to know what baddies are concievably left at this point, but it isn't out of the question that Rowyn or one of the others couldn't pull in some backup as Vikingson described. An ambush et al. And if all seems lost (and Rowyn isn't captive or something) the retreating baddies just might set fire to the building to cover their tracks and get revenge.
It is mostly underground and pretty damp if not outright wet, so the best they could do would be to smoke the whole place out - which would royally honk of the 3 rhagodessas ... bad idea that, 8 hp rogue, meet 22 hp deathbug ... oops ...
And since the deathbugs are not exactly discriminatory, the LD's could give a 'runner' an expeditious retreat potion or 3 and use him to draw the bugs out - LD tumbles (hopefully) through the party, only for them to find THREE deathbugs chomping on thier tender n00b flesh ...
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
Oh, those are some great ideas!
I don't know what they were thinking either - there's been all sorts of In - and Out of character arguing about this ;) The wizard player is strategic sneaky mastermind #1 who's been throwing me all the curveballs (kidnap the ixits). His character, however, is not going to argue with the barbarian - so it's good RP but crazy, just crazy!
And all because one guy has it in his head to become a forsaker! He's trying to RP it even though his every natural urge is screaming "Drink the potion!" He's a dumb, suspicious barbarian, and that's it.
While the group were sneaking into the hideout he went looking for a fight. Not too far ahead, just enough to peek through the bunkroom door and catch a crossbow bolt in the neck. After the surprise round I beat his initiative - and he was down to single figures before the rest of the group arrived. Sweet. Cruncher raced round the outside of the bunkroom and almost got into a flanking position before being engaged. The first time he told them what he was going to do to them was precious! When the spellthief retreated back up the corridor to drink a potion, he foolishly did this in the hall opposite the door with some thieves in position behind it. Another crossbow bolt in the neck :) So thye know the thieves aren't messing.
As far as surviving thieves assets, there's still Rowyn + Gut Tugger, Kersh and Nemien Rodblach is probably sound asleep in his bed. Seven thieves are dead, and four are on the floor of the bedroom with the combinations, unconscious, bound and gagged.
I'm loath to kill them all since there's lots of role-play, in-depth character backgrounds etc. Capture half or chase them away would be fine. Or capture the lot, kill one, let the Jade Ravens rescue them...?
I think smoking them out would be great. Or have the illusionist patrol the corridors making illusionary sounds of lots of thieves and dogs barking and shout of "They're here" to flush them out - before hitting them with all the lovely suggestions above. Greased corridors? Laurel and Hardy genius!
Why punish them at all? This is the second thread I've seen on here recently about beating the bejesus out of a party that splits, and I don't get it. I have this odd mental picture of entire adventuring parties shuffling into the restroom together because they're terrified of being alone ("Cthulhu's in the toilet, I know it!").
The barbarian is following through with his background, a few thieves tracked them back from the hideout but where captured, and Rowyn and crew are probably busy with damage control. I'd likely reinforce the hideout and keep them on alert the second trip in, but I fail to see the problem here.
|
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
Why punish them at all? This is the second thread I've seen on here recently about beating the bejesus out of a party that splits, and I don't get it. I have this odd mental picture of entire adventuring parties shuffling into the restroom together because they're terrified of being alone ("Cthulhu's in the toilet, I know it!").
The barbarian is following through with his background, a few thieves tracked them back from the hideout but where captured, and Rowyn and crew are probably busy with damage control. I'd likely reinforce the hideout and keep them on alert the second trip in, but I fail to see the problem here.
The problem is that the two main melee people left the weak fleshbags alone IN THE HIDEOUT. Where about half of the defenses are still intact.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
Yeah - like he said, they left them in the hideout, after getting spotted and putting it on alert, and killing 7 thieves and Cruncher - the bunkroom and the corridors are covered in blood and corpses, and the three 'weakest' (physically weakest, certainly, but also almost out of spells) party members are STILL INSIDE. The thieves will first secure what they have then look to securing the rest of the hideout again. And hopefully to find and punish the intruders. I don't want to punish them personally, just by proxy via the you-poked-a-stick-in-a-wasps-nest angry thieves.
I'd like to give them a chance to flee or be taken prisoner, but also want to give the impression that these are intelligent, ruthless adversaries and not a case of "the 3 orcs in room 1 do not hear the fight against the trolls in room 2".
They didn't go in via the illusionist, so waking him up for a sweep of the halls would certainly be fun. The rhagodessa are alive, but no-one is going to try and herd those things! Pitbulls or German Shepherds though ... might be fun.
Lots of great ideas already here - can't wait til Wednesday.
Why punish them at all? This is the second thread I've seen on here recently about beating the bejesus out of a party that splits, and I don't get it. I have this odd mental picture of entire adventuring parties shuffling into the restroom together because they're terrified of being alone ("Cthulhu's in the toilet, I know it!").
The barbarian is following through with his background, a few thieves tracked them back from the hideout but where captured, and Rowyn and crew are probably busy with damage control. I'd likely reinforce the hideout and keep them on alert the second trip in, but I fail to see the problem here.
Its not about "punishing" the players. Its about them making a very, correct that EXTREMLY stupid move tactically and ingame.
In my experience, quite a large part of the thrill in D&D roleplaying is in the knowledge that you can fail, horrendously so, if you screw up.I personally hate it (to the point where I leave campaigns), when GMs molly coddle the PCs, dropping scrolls of "Raise Dead" etc. just about every time something goes belly up. And this would be the same. The players go taste the green ooze and the GM claiming... "oh, that is just jelly, lucky you " crunching his notes
Frankly, what the players are doing is throwing down their rifles in the middle of Waterloo and taking a tea-break while surrounded by hostiles. Bad mistake...
And "spliitting up" is the grandmother of all bad mistakes, for meta-gaming reasons - encounters are written to be challenging for the entire group plus - half your buddies are sitting around on their hands, being able to contribute zip to the game.
Same goes for ingame reasons -----> the characters know they are in a dangerous, life-threatening situation, and for them "death" is real... So best be extra-careful, hmmm ?
A short recon by the rogue is ok. A lengthy sojourn to the local temple, to heal up (!), and leaving the soft-skinned specialists behind on their own is just..... Embarassingly stupid ?
That barabarian's player really has a feather in his bonnet for un-cooperative character-concepts, sorry to say.
If carborundum would like to play more "fair" than they deserve and hit the culprit, let him focus the attention on the barbarians first, giving the supporters time to slip away, forewarned by the noises from that battle, even if undeservedly...
And frankly, given the problem presented by a character who will accept healing only from one temple in Sasserine, they will be royally sc$§?%ed once BWG goes underway... or SWW... will they turn ship aback to their homeport after every battle ?
...If they dealt with the Illusionist when they came through, then he's either dead or long gone since he didn't want to be around when it was found out the PCs used his entrance to launch the attack....
Well as carborundum stated, they took the sea-entrance both times. So he will be alive, he will loose his shop and livelihood if he doesn't help the LDs (an arrangement that seems to be profitable for them) , and he is actually well equiped to deal with them.
As for likely dead or fled - my group actually captured him, both for interrogation and a possible bounty on his head from the Sasserine City Guard.
|
I like the idea of having the Jade Ravens rescueing them, especially if the two groups don't much care for one another or to get them to dislike one another. You could stage it by having the JRs follow the barbarians as they rush back and arrive at the sea entrance in time to rescue them. Have the JR's druid heal them up even (unconcious barbarian you are now healed!). Then pan over to the other group who are now facing Rowan and the rest of the Lotus Dragons. At first the LDs try to 'smoke' them out or lay siege to thier impromptu fortress, but soon Rowan decides to offer them the deal. Then, once that group has made a decision, have the other group storm around the corner. Don't worry too much about making the PCs look bad, they get the chance to pay back the JRs very soon.
Having the Jade Ravens rescue the PCs can serve to show them as a competent force (even fudge the numbers if you have to). Afterwords, they can snicker at the 'rookie adventurers' or offer to train with them some, however you want to play them.
|
lemme get this straight.
already, 2 party members have been critically wounded, by the same rogues that they have captured/killed.
and 1 of them (a big honking rogue-splitting-in-half-barbarian) decides to leave the squishy (and small) wizard/spellthief/druid in the enemy camp by themselves?
personally, i'd have the remaining LD's secure the place, go room-by-room, and when they have located the group (and locked down the rest of the place), they jump em. swarms of LD's, Churtle and her bucket-o-puke, the torturer, and Roblach (especially since he's in the clear about his place being used).
the barb's come back (hopefully with reinforcements, or at least all healed up and rarin to go a smitin') and find their friends are either under assault (depending on how well they can hold em off), captured (and in the interrogation cells, possibly in the torture chamber), or dead.
sounds like an object lesson in "Don't Split Up the Party" to me.
-the hamster
|
|
"as written" the hideout has a bunch of secret doors, so whats one more into the bedroom? unless your group actually checked for said passages... give them a spat check to notice the door open, one round later a spot check to notice there's an extra theif with the prisoners, next round the door as one of the prisoners leave., 3 rounds later half the newly freed prisoners bolt to open the main door, while the others engage the party to keep them busy. if the barbs weren't seen leaving, then the entire HQ is there for that one fight, and the Barbs come into hearing distance as the door is opened and battle is joined. I would love to see the face of the 2 barbarians coming around a corner after being healed, only to be hit by more arrows then he has hit points - because he went to heal. Or if you do something like this, have the LD's do subdue damage and have the barbs turn the corner as the pipsqueacks are tied up on the LD's shoulders
Question: Do the LD's know that the party used the water entrance to enter? If they do, or if they have enough time to figure that out, they could have the taxidermist stationed at that entrance ready to keep them occupied for a little while.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
I'd love to do the whole bit with the three waiting characters first and have the barbarians return to an empty room but logistically it's a bit harsh. We only play STAP every two weeks as it is, and it's only for about 3-4 hours. So I'm going for the everyone-has-fun copout of simultaneous attacks. Metagamingly it's fun too though!
Right!
I've got the illusionist walking invisibly down the corridors using ghost sound/ ventriloquism (artistic license) to create the sound of barking dogs and thieves shouting "I heard them!" "They're down this way!" and "Release the hounds!"
He's hoping to flush them out and fell them with a color spray. If not it's time for a potion of gaseous form.
On hearing this, one of the thieves will slip his bonds using either Escape Artist or a knife (they were bound but not searched). Unfortunately the other three are on negatives and KO. He'll not be able to wake them. He can pick his moment to shout for assistance and try to KO a party member. The PCs searched for secret doors unfortunately - it would have been great for the bound thieves to just be gone!
Waiting for the barbarians at the beach will be two rhagodessas (the third refused to leave the cave). Assuming the party reunite and survive I'll send another 6 thieves with nets and hand xbows at them too - that should let them run away, level up, and go in to destroy the lotus for good.
Should they all fail miserably I'll let the Jade Ravens save them after Kersh has his way with a few :)
Whaddya think?
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
Exactly! A bit of proactivity :)
I so regret saying "punish" - it was a joke, seriously! ;)
I mean - if a DM wants to punish the players he can just say "you wake up and all your stuff is gone, and you've been drained five levels."
Or .. anything. Not saying you took punish literally - just a general thing, lin!
Sounds like you know exactly what I mean - and the bit about mooning is rather apt too - in one game I was a player in, one of the players did indeed moon a fleeing dragon (on 6hp or so) and IT CAME BACK TO FIGHT TO THE DEATH!
Kill 'em. Send in Dragotha.
Nice one!
Regardless though, just as so many have pointed out...the Point is to play the thieves (and any other monsters) to their Intelligence/Instinct Level.
Keep thinking like a Rogue and Ambush them. I don't necessarily mean kill (actually I do, but that is your decision), but at the very least maim...
By their very definition, a rogue is at its heart an 'opportunist'. How much better of an opportunity to end the threat to your hideout are you going to get?
Consider (should the capture attempt go well) having on of the LDs threaten to Coup-de-grace a downed PC... i.e.
"Throw down yer weapons or I'll be giving the pasty one a steel smile..."
(this is assuming a Cutlass held to the throat of a Wizard ^_^ )
And if there are any female characters...all the better to threaten. The Big Male Barbarian types tend to be soft in such regard.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
Well, apparently it was the best session yet – the car ride home was all about the best bits :)
I'd had time to make tiles from the pdfs and that was a nice start. I set up the right hand side of the map - from the water entrance to the lounge and bedroom, and the corridor to the bunk room. I'd added cliffhangers to the story of the previous session to our site (in Dutch unfortunately) and everyone was up for it.
The halfling druid & spellthief and the wizard were in the lounge, barricading the bedroom door with the unconscious thieves inside. They heard the shouts and dog barking noises - coming from an invisible Nemien (who had an invisible thief bodyguard).
The two barbarians were emerging from the water near the beach when they spotted the rhagodessas clinging to the ceiling (climb speed 40ft - why not?)
Once the table was ready I asked for initiatives - always a good way to start a session!
I ran the whole lot simultaneously, which was a lot of fun. The druid immediately recognised that the noise was no normal dog but that didn't help. She remained hidden round the corner. The spellthief cast light on a dart and threw it down the corridor. Nothing to see. Nemien in his slippers managed to sneak all the way up to the end of the corridor and unloaded a colour spray in the spellthief's face. Which worked.
At the other end, the rhagodessa went at it with their full spring attack skills. One was repulsed and the other managed to take the barbarian who'd left to heal down to half hitpoints with one full damage bite!
Back in the thief fight, a thief appeared when he shot the druid in the back of the head as she pummeled the illusionist's mage armour and shield spell instead of him. Bohairic, the Mulhorandi mage, got a lucky shot in with his own staff and Nemien had had enough. He managed to drink a potion of gaseous form and started to drift away. Unfortunately, Bohairic had a wand of magic missiles and his ghostly form went down.
The grappled barbarian grabbed a sap from his belt and clobbered the rhagodessa with it. His mate managed to hit it too and it was out of the fight. The wounded barbarian got his greataxe out and the two of them made short work of the second deathbug, which couldn’t seem to get a decent hit in. They ran towards the shouts.
The blinded spellthief was still bumping into walls when the party wizard tried his First ever hand crossbow shot. One critical and a rubbish save later, the thief was half dead, on his knees, puking his guts out. That’s when the next wave came round the corner from the training room. Hand crossbows, nets, tanglefoot bags, thunderflashes, keeping their distance – none of it helped.
When I started bringing more and more thieves on, I assumed they’d retreat – everyone was injured, the wiz was out of spells (but had a wand), the druid only had a Sandblast left, and the spellthief was stunned. Both barbarians were wounded and yet they all decided to stand and fight.
The next few rounds were an embarrassment for thieves everywhere. They missed with tanglefoot bags, they missed with nets, their crossbows hit occasionally but then the party saved, they missed wildly with thunderstones, and no matter how much they tried to stay out of combat and come back later, they couldn’t get away from charging barbarians with 40ft moves for long. And each hit was death.
The spellthief sneak attacked the unconscious gaseous illusionist and stole his mage armour and gaseous form. (Couldn’t think of any reason why not – he had damage resistance – okay – but he was eligible to be attacked and therefore eligible to be sneaked). It was a sweet moment for the spellthief to use her power for the first time and slowly fade away as the illusionist faded back into solidity.
So, basically, the party hunted down the thieves and captured or killed them all. The lounge now has five thieves tied up in it, the bedroom another four. Another 8 are dead – the rest will have to gather round Rowyn for a final defense, I reckon.
They looted the bodies, found the open hatch, went upstairs and looted the Taxidermist’s bedroom. Now they’re deciding whether to go on or go sleep.
If they go on, they’re crazy but just might make it. If they go sleep, the thieves will release their comrades and put up barricades all over the shop. Luckily I’ve lots of ideas for that :)
Wonderful...let us know how it goes. Sounds like, in spite of bad rolls that the rogues did their best, and your players rose to the occasion. Part of the challenge of DMing is giving players challenges to see if they actually can rise up and do well. Just keep giving them a hard time and teaching them the lessons they need to learn (like they had better not leave those thieves unguarded). They will need all those lessons later in the AP.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
That's what I was thinking - except the Vanthus letters are in Rowyn's stuff. I could maybe have the rest evacuate, leaving a bugbear zombie or two, the last rhagodessa and the traps to protect the chests.
At least Rowyn will be ready for the Sea Wyvern, and she could bring a polymorphed Gut-Tugger with her :)
On the other hand, the tied up LDs could escape, heal up and reinforce the offices. Hmmmm.
|
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
Perhaps, when the adventurers return, they manage to catch some LDs trying to leave with the last of the belongings, including Rowyn's chest with the letters... They needed to get the most important stuff out, such as the gold and the intelligence, and no one thought that Rowyn had such a valuable gold mine of intel in her trunk.
Mind you, she's got alotta booty in that trunk... ;)
introduce the clue some other way.... have the players find a "missed" message up in the taxidermist's shop or something. Have Sheldon tell them about a message-runner for the LDs who they might pick up to get a lead on them ? Something in that vein that has the group feeling they actually "caught" the clue, instead of leaving it lying around like the obvious McGuffin.
Overall, missing out on Rowyn's stuff will hurt the players badly anyway - the only magic weapon if I recall correctly before BWG ....which puts them at something of a disadvantage there....
Also, not having met her will make SWW all the more fun, because they don't even have a chance of recognising her, hehe
They are in the Lotus hideout. They've killed 6 and captured 4. They took out the worg and trashed the rum supplies!
There is a halfling spellthief, a human wizard, a halfling druid and two big barbarians. One barbarian (down to 2 hitpoints) wants to go Forsaker and is refusing all potions and wands - he'll only accept healing from the temple of Tempus at the minute.So what do they do? The badly wounded barbarian decides to go to the temple, and the other one offers to escort him. The almost-out-of-spells wizard and the two halflings lock themselves in the bedroom to wait. No, seriously.
I sent a quick 3-thief encounter their way and the party took them all prisoner. I estimate another 15 minutes before the barbarians get back.
What to do?
My current plan is to have a larger party of thieves (say 5, or three and two big dogs) try to capture the three of them, while a second group (2 thieves and a lev 2 sorcerer) waits at the beach (they took the water entrance) for the barbarians. I was thinking of making the two attacks simultaneous to let one group try to save the other. The thieves will have thunderstones, tanglefoot bags and alchemists fire.
Too much? Too easy on them? Other ideas? I can't have them splitting the party again! Fools!
Shame you can't have two sets of changelings involved, one posing as the halflings say and the others posing as the barbarians.
Have one run after the pair and persuade them that the others are either dead or captured so they either led into a trap or escorted back to town for healing with noone the wiser and the group inside are told the injured barbarian was slain and there's no way out of the base save for a treacherous climb up a shaft their surviving "friend" came across but just for "safety" they hold up long enough to recover their spells meanwhile the "friend" frees the captives and the resulting fight puts them in real danger of losing...But maybe thats too much...
Its not about "punishing" the players. Its about them making a very, correct that EXTREMLY stupid move tactically and ingame.
In my experience, quite a large part of the thrill in D&D roleplaying is in the knowledge that you can fail, horrendously so, if you screw up.
I personally hate it (to the point where I leave campaigns), when GMs molly coddle the PCs, dropping scrolls of "Raise Dead" etc. just about every time something goes belly up. And this would be the same. The players go taste the green ooze and the GM claiming... "oh, that is just jelly, lucky you " crunching his notes
And people wonder why players are overly paranoid min/maxers.
And people wonder why players are overly paranoid min/maxers.Its not about "punishing" the players. Its about them making a very, correct that EXTREMLY stupid move tactically and ingame.
In my experience, quite a large part of the thrill in D&D roleplaying is in the knowledge that you can fail, horrendously so, if you screw up.
I personally hate it (to the point where I leave campaigns), when GMs molly coddle the PCs, dropping scrolls of "Raise Dead" etc. just about every time something goes belly up. And this would be the same. The players go taste the green ooze and the GM claiming... "oh, that is just jelly, lucky you " crunching his notes
In my experience min-maxing or high stats/fantastic equipment does not save a player if he acts stupidly (I have posted some utterly inane things players in my groups have felt to be opportune actions in another thread of the general forum ), "screwing up"and making enemies left and right.
And if players take sensible precautions (like buying a raise dead scroll in advance, carrying it with them for cases of emergency) or play things safe I am the last guy to sabotage that. But - please note my choice of words "playing safe" and taking "sensible precautions" - those are things anyone can accomplish without min-maxing (with the help of WotC character optimizations boards for extra-strength idiocies perhaps ), outlandish classes or races or extra-powerful equipment. Just through the use of one's common sense (which can be a rare commodity....)Case in point - some of the best "lets not do that"-interruptions usually come from the less experienced players and those who don't have the notion that they have "beat the system".
And breaking up a weakened, low-level group in the middle of an alerted enemy stronghold is just something inviting some realistic response from the rather ruthless smugglers/extortionists they upset. And I find Caborundums reaction, as described in hindlook, as a pretty nifty handling of the situation. If some of the characters had bitten the dust.... well, his fault or theirs ?
Just my 2 cents.
I have to agree - min-maxed characters are usually the first to fall and fail. Why ? Because their players for one consider themselves nigh invincible ( or at least on the cutting edge of the game). And hence do cocksure things without consideration that tend to backfire, in serious ways. Many can min-max ( IMHO a sign of insecurity ), especially if posting on the boards for advice, but that doesn't save your butt. Playing wisely and successfully is something else though. And to quote Qin-Gon "there isalways a bigger fish" aka a min-maxed NPC =)
@carborundum
Nice situation, although, IMHO you let them off with only a minor beating. Let's just hope they learn, or BWG might really be a death trap....
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
With their location I was kind of stuck because the thieves also had the 5-foot corridor problem. They did their best though and I didn't fudge anything. Charges from the barbarians broke up each ranged attack in no time. I sent 'buddy' pairs of thieves at them, one shooting the poison darts, and one readied with a net or tanglefoot bag. I had firebombs but the druid and the water genasi could both Create Water. I threw thunderstones and they all saved. the thieves missed a lot too, it must be said, but the plus side is that their confidence is now so high that they intend to press on rather than rest!
It'll be another week or two since two of the group are sick this week but As far as I'm concerned, it's time for a Lotus evac - the corridor is running with the blood of 17 thieves! Even so, there is still the matter of the bugbear zombie(s), the other rhagodessa, the crocodile, Kersh the torturer, Rowen and GutTugger. Any or all of whom can still be around to guard or oversee the evacuation of important documents and boxes of cash.
Sorry, only skimmed through the thread, but I noticed the part where the player of the barbarian character wants to rp up his dislike of magic potions and wands and such . . .
If he's at only 2 hp, have the rest of the group team up and force a potion down his throat. I mean seriously . . . it wuld be in the party's best interest. and if the guy's at 2 hp, he's probably not at his strongest anyway.
With their location I was kind of stuck because the thieves also had the 5-foot corridor problem. They did their best though and I didn't fudge anything. Charges from the barbarians broke up each ranged attack in no time. I sent 'buddy' pairs of thieves at them, one shooting the poison darts, and one readied with a net or tanglefoot bag. I had firebombs but the druid and the water genasi could both Create Water. I threw thunderstones and they all saved. the thieves missed a lot too, it must be said, but the plus side is that their confidence is now so high that they intend to press on rather than rest!
It'll be another week or two since two of the group are sick this week but As far as I'm concerned, it's time for a Lotus evac - the corridor is running with the blood of 17 thieves! Even so, there is still the matter of the bugbear zombie(s), the other rhagodessa, the crocodile, Kersh the torturer, Rowen and GutTugger. Any or all of whom can still be around to guard or oversee the evacuation of important documents and boxes of cash.
You could have one of the BBEG's in there 'lead out' the trio of deathbugs through the PC's camping spot ... then have them mock the characters mightily as they are masticated into kibble. Of course, the named NPCs will most likely do that mocking from a safe distance...
yeah, well, that is why it is called 'roleplaying' - while tactically possibly a sound idea, their character(s) might just not feel that way and respect his feelings. Friendship, respect, laziness ineptitude... whatever floats their boat. Its not a tactical boardgame played to win, and only to win.
Although, IMHO, playing a foresaker is a pretty uncooperative concept in the first place
yeah, well, that is why it is called 'roleplaying' - while tactically possibly a sound idea, their character(s) might just not feel that way and respect his feelings. Friendship, respect, laziness ineptitude... whatever floats their boat. Its not a tactical boardgame played to win, and only to win.
Although, IMHO, playing a foresaker is a pretty uncooperative concept in the first place
Ah, yes, the whole " I don't like magic " thing. Although I whole-heartedly agree with your point vikingson - and if he RP's out to the point of character death, the GM should at least consider not hosing him (much) for RP'ing what is a mechanically-unsound decision...
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
|
I agree about the Forsaker but he wanted to try it as an opposite to his many wizard characters. I don't think he'll get far with the 10 points per day of fast healing though, I might have it work constantly up to, say, 2/3 hit points. A point for another thread though, sorry.
As for the thieves, I probably should have had them back further off but the party surprised me by staying aggressive instead of getting out after the first thief, wizard and rhagodessas combat.
Oh! Oh! Oh! (sticks hand up excitedly in class)
I was just thinking - I could have Rowyn make her offer at her desk, and if they say no (they will) she can press a button à la James Bond Villain, and the walls can plummet into the floor revealing a bigger room, several zombies, and Gut Tugger (already in prime flanking position).
Whaddya think?
I was just thinking - I could have Rowyn make her offer at her desk, and if they say no (they will) she can press a button à la James Bond Villain, and the walls can plummet into the floor revealing a bigger room, several zombies, and Gut Tugger (already in prime flanking position).
Whaddya think?
I can see it now ... " What do you expect us to do ? "
" I expect you all to DIE, adventurers! "
Don't forget, however, that the plummet could well be into a second Crucible (the pit where the croc is), only with deathbugs instead of zombies and Gut Tugger...
Oh you are an evil genius!
A second crucible, with deathbugs!!!The Shadow is on telly in the background and a vaudevillian laugh was echoing through the room as I read that too :)
I live but to serve ... deaths to player characters that don't think too much ... ^_^
That is an awesomely appropriate laugh too, all things considered. :)
Wonderful idea - I would just stock the "pit" with a watertank and a piranha swarm or two.... if they stay in the water = MUNCHING TIME... if they climb out , the GT can take bite attacks at their hands, heads and whatever other tasty bits they care to expose.....
This would definitely make them HATE Rowyn... if anyone survives, that is.
Oh, and I found that handing Rowyn a (dagger-)whip for stand-off attacks does really add to her image of ... sultry mistress of thieves ?
Wonderful idea - I would just stock the "pit" with a watertank and a piranha swarm or two.... if they stay in the water = MUNCHING TIME... if they climb out , the GT can take bite attacks at their hands, heads and whatever other tasty bits they care to expose.....
This would definitely make them HATE Rowyn... if anyone survives, that is.
Oh, and I found that handing Rowyn a (dagger-)whip for stand-off attacks does really add to her image of ... sultry mistress of thieves ?
Whip-dagger wielding Rowyn ... damn, wish I'd thought of that ... rawr...
Wonderful idea - I would just stock the "pit" with a watertank and a piranha swarm or two.... if they stay in the water = MUNCHING TIME... if they climb out , the GT can take bite attacks at their hands, heads and whatever other tasty bits they care to expose.....
This would definitely make them HATE Rowyn... if anyone survives, that is.
Oh, and I found that handing Rowyn a (dagger-)whip for stand-off attacks does really add to her image of ... sultry mistress of thieves ?
The complex is at water level already so another pit could be under water as well. Which is good because the ixichitils (with frikken lasers on their heads) will already have access to the area.
Its hard to decide which would be more horrifying, the piranhas or the deathbugs...
I think I would go with the piranhas myself, or be really cruel and just make it a pool of acid. The deathbugs might come out to eat a few thieves otherwise unless properly tethered.
and yes....here is to the whip-dagger lashing Rowyn!
Its hard to decide which would be more horrifying, the piranhas or the deathbugs...
I think I would go with the piranhas myself, or be really cruel and just make it a pool of acid. The deathbugs might come out to eat a few thieves otherwise unless properly tethered.and yes....here is to the whip-dagger lashing Rowyn!
Ah, but like any good villain with a deathtrap in her office, she has the pit's lid set up to close when triggered again from the desk. So, fat and contended on freshly served long pork salsa, the deathbugs will calm down for a while and digest thier latest feast...
Couple the malevolence of Rowyn with equivelent mayhem from her gigilo Vanthus ...