That said... it's been nearly 20 months since I've had the luxury to reminisce about Spires of Xin-Shalast, and I can't remember if there are harridans posing as giants if not in the text of the adventure... I don't THINK there were... If there were, then that's something that if/when we do a revision to the Runelords story we'll fix.
After a quick flipping through the book: No, there are no harridans posing as giants - only a human magelord posing as abominable snowman.
Check this thread RotRL Level Up Points. Very useful advices.
My players are going to be 16 level when they meet Karzoug. Hopefully THE fight will be memorable. ^^
One of the big "eaters of space" that a lot of D&D adventures suffer from are stat blocks for creatures that really don't need stat blocks. I mean why have stats for Morgiv wasting precious space? Even Svevenka doesn't need stats since she's really not supposed to be a combat encounter. Leaving out unnecessary stat blocks would free up tons of room for more adventure. You don't have to include stats for every single creature.
Creative Director
|
One of the big "eaters of space" that a lot of D&D adventures suffer from are stat blocks for creatures that really don't need stat blocks. I mean why have stats for Morgiv wasting precious space? Even Svevenka doesn't need stats since she's really not supposed to be a combat encounter. Leaving out unnecessary stat blocks would free up tons of room for more adventure. You don't have to include stats for every single creature.
True... but not everyone plays a game the same way. One group's unneeded stat block can be another group's indespensible main bad guy. And also... stat blocks in adventures are, I think, one of the great unrealized resources of adventures. Even if you're not RUNNING an adventure, having it and a few others of equal level handy when you're running a game of that level gives you LOTS of handy statblocks to use in a pinch.
Part of my job as developer on these adventures is to make sure that the balance between story and stat blocks is the right balance, after all... just because a stat block is long doesn't mean it's replacing cut text. The amount of stuff we cut from adventures is USUALLY stuff that SHOULD be cut, after all.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
But not from SoXS, which was all solid-gold writing, of course. ;-)Absolutely. That goes without saying. ;-)
In Xin-Shalast, I have no doubt that every example of Thassilonian writing found probibly is written in gold.
Check this thread RotRL Level Up Points. Very useful advices.
My players are going to be 16 level when they meet Karzoug. Hopefully THE fight will be memorable. ^^
So, my players are 16th, but with 4 co-horts so a party of 8.
any advice for beefing up the Big K?
Check this thread RotRL Level Up Points. Very useful advices.
My players are going to be 16 level when they meet Karzoug. Hopefully THE fight will be memorable. ^^
So, my players are 16th, but with 4 co-horts so a party of 8.
any advice for beefing up the Big K?
to be clear:
4 16th level characters4 14th level characters
|
Creative Director
|
Check this thread RotRL Level Up Points. Very useful advices.
My players are going to be 16 level when they meet Karzoug. Hopefully THE fight will be memorable. ^^
So, my players are 16th, but with 4 co-horts so a party of 8.
any advice for beefing up the Big K?
to be clear:
4 16th level characters
4 14th level characters
Karzoug's still going to be tough... but the problem is that the PCs outnumber him and thus simply have more actions. My suggestion: Add more bad guys to the final fight.
Karzoug's still going to be tough... but the problem is that the PCs outnumber him and thus simply have more actions. My suggestion: Add more bad guys to the final fight.Check this thread RotRL Level Up Points. Very useful advices.
My players are going to be 16 level when they meet Karzoug. Hopefully THE fight will be memorable. ^^
So, my players are 16th, but with 4 co-horts so a party of 8.
any advice for beefing up the Big K?
to be clear:
4 16th level characters
4 14th level characters
that should work nicely. Thinking Beefed up Leng Buddies.
Game is tonight. Will be posting post-battle/outcome and Pictures tomorrow, no matter how it goes.
2) In the "Xin-Shalast at its Height" sidebar, Khalid, the apprentice of Karzoug, is listed as a cloud giant transmuter 14, as opposed to the human transmuter 16 that appears in the finished product. Presumably, the stat block was changed for length and CR reasons, and this is a mistake. I, however, like to think that Karzoug, in his pride, named all of his chief apprentices Khalid because he liked the name.He's a human transmuter. In the original draft, Khalid was a cloud giant, but we changed that because Karzoug (or any self-respecting Thassilonian wizard, for that manner) would NEVER take on a member of the slave caste (to which ALL giants belonged) as an apprentice. Therefore, his apprentice had to be human (or, at least, humanoid, and again, since the Thassilonains were kind of bigots... human it is!).
The "Xin-Shalast at its Height" sidebar should have listed Khalid as a human, in other words.
As my players received the information on Xin-Shalast at it's height from the library and it's ever helpful librarian, some of it contradictory, as is the case for Khalid's race, I have come up with an in-game solution.
My solution is that Khalid likes to go into combat with giants while he is under the effects of giant form II as a cloud giant (he likes the scent ability). So, some accounts list him as a cloud giant, some as a human.
I am curious as to why Khalid has dimension door and ethereal jaunt on his spell list. Does not the occulting field prevent their use?
As well, would the field also interfere with summoning spells?
I am curious as to why Khalid has dimension door and ethereal jaunt on his spell list. Does not the occulting field prevent their use?
As well, would the field also interfere with summoning spells?
A character wearing a Sidhedron ring or medallion ignores the effects of the occluding field (pg.45 under the Occluding Field section).
Khalib is wearing a Sidhedron ring (pg.55 under Other Gear)
Karzoug's still going to be tough... but the problem is that the PCs outnumber him and thus simply have more actions. My suggestion: Add more bad guys to the final fight.Check this thread RotRL Level Up Points. Very useful advices.
My players are going to be 16 level when they meet Karzoug. Hopefully THE fight will be memorable. ^^
So, my players are 16th, but with 4 co-horts so a party of 8.
any advice for beefing up the Big K?
to be clear:
4 16th level characters
4 14th level charactersthat should work nicely. Thinking Beefed up Leng Buddies.
Game is tonight. Will be posting post-battle/outcome and Pictures tomorrow, no matter how it goes.
This battle is rapidly approaching, and was curious how this went for everyone else... I want to make this memorable too, because the stakes are a bit higher than just "saving the world."
4. So what was the point of all the Lamashtu involvement? I'm not talking about Paizo introducing its own cosmology to the public I understand the need to do that. I'm talking from an in game point of view. Why make so many NPC and monster worshipers to Lamashtu? This really turns out to be a pretty big red herring throughout the whole AP. Was that the point?
So whats wrong with Red Herrings?
|
1. Likely, Karzoug didn't have the time to research a fully problem-proof method of survivng the fall, and needed somebody on the other side to snap him out of it.
2. IIRC Karzoug began to waken on his own, without Mokmurian's influence.
3. Sauron's plan had a pretty big hole as well :)
4. It's a very nice red herring that keeps the players away from guessing the Real Deal, isn't it ? :)
The way I see it.
1. Xin Shalest was near to Leng already because Karzoug was using that as a means to protect (and obscure the location of) his precious city of wealth. I have described to my players the insane level to which Karzoug micromanaged the city, making sure that each underpaid groundskeeper was observed at all times to ensure they were not stealing gilded shingles and the like. The proximity to Leng was a feature that allowed Karzoug to control who entered his city, and who could never leave.
Runeforge is extraplanar, and therefor weathered the earthfall as you have described. When the moment of cataclysm came, Karzoug did exactly what you proposed — he found an extraplanar refuge and survived in the same manner as those at Runeforge did. The closest plane of refuge was Leng, which is unfortunately much less hospitable than the demiplane selected for Runeforge. If you know much about Leng itself, that explains the extraordinary measures Karzoug needed to take to keep himself safe from the very plane that would give him refuge.
4. Lamashtu is the demon goddess of monsters. It should come as no surprise that monsters worship her — certainly no more surprising than a ranger venerating Erastil or a paladin worshiping Iomedae. She is involved in the events of Runelords, but in a detached and remote way as many gods influence events.
Since these words came from (presumably) different writers, I'm happy to disregard the backstory in Khalib and just come up with a new reason for him to be in Runeforge.
My original post is just musing on how *I* plan to explain it, not an attempt at a coherent literal reading.
If you have somehow gotten to book 6 of runelords and everything is internally consistent despite your cleaving to the literal word of the authors, then I am awestruck. In my experience, campaigns are much more... subjective. And that's not the fault of the written materials, just the natural progression of RPGs.
My own take is that Lamashtu is actually a driving force in the adventure and is manipulating events to lead to Karzoug's downfall. It is the actions of so many of her agents that first put the heroes on the trail to defeating the Runelord, and her agents that give up the secrets of how to defeat him.
Without Lamashtu, the Runelord succeeds in his plan to return, after all.
1. Because a simple stasis wouldn't save him, or the other 6 Runelords, from the cataclysm. As a guess, probably because of the types of powers the Runelords associated with and used. They had to quickly design powerful complicated systems unique to their specialization/sin in order to protect themselves.
2. Probably a magic ritual to open the door to Karzoug's tomb and start to break his hibernation. Or something similar. The details aren't important to the story so you can make them up.
3. Based on X8. Khalib’s Quarters, while Khalib was originally planned to have the honor of awakening Karzoug, there is no indication that he was the only one with the knowledge to do so - probably all of his apprentices knew how to do so. I would guess Khalib was the "teacher's pet", totally loyal to Karzoug, so the other apprentices eliminated him first before they turned on each other. Runelord Haphrama (and Darth Plagueis) could testify that betrayal by apprentices can come as a surprise.
It should also be noted that the resurrection plans of the other Runelords also failed. We know Gluttony and Lust survived and we have hints as to how to revive them. The other 4 probably can be revived as well.
4. Partly red herring as the Karzoug is kept hidden from the PCs until the end of module 4. Partly as Evil Lincoln states - she is the goddess of monsters and her presence is commonly seen by adventuring parties all over Golarion. Partly to show she is one of the old gods who was around and active way back then.
My own take is that Lamashtu is actually a driving force in the adventure and is manipulating events to lead to Karzoug's downfall. It is the actions of so many of her agents that first put the heroes on the trail to defeating the Runelord, and her agents that give up the secrets of how to defeat him.
Without Lamashtu, the Runelord succeeds in his plan to return, after all.
Entirely plausible.
Although Lamashtu probably doesn't know about Mhar's subversion of Kazoug's plans.
Your suggestion makes some sense to me although I don't quite get why a simple stasis would not save a Runelord when it easily saved Karzougs favored and chosen apprentice (in line to be a Runelord himself).
Consider the cataclysm that brutalized the Forgotten Realms as part of the 4e conversion. Gods and powerful personages were killed. Stasis wasn't enough to save them. Maybe the Runelords saw something as bad as 4e coming to Golarion and didn't believe stasis would be enough for them to survive it.
Two thoughts on Khalib... First, there is no indication of him consorting with Leng or using spells/powers from Leng. That would be one possibility of why he could survive the cataclysm in stasis while Karzoug couldn't.
Second, it's possible the madness that infected the rest of the apprentices was a part of the cataclysm. If so, then Khalib's stasis failed to protect him from the cataclysm. He survived, sure, but Karzoug's hibernation was much more effective. Karzoug had multiple "outs", one of which eventually worked, while Khalib was stuck waiting for Karzoug to free him.
I can deal with little inconsistencies in an AP and realize they happen all the time. Problems like this one however, that unravel an entire AP's backbone, need to be caught.
Yup. Your players are lucky they have a GM who thinks things through.
Adventure Path's don't really save you prep-time or balancing effort, have you noticed that yet?
What they do provide is a buffer against creative burnout. I love them because creative burnout was my (once) biggest obstacle.
Good luck with the campaign!
Been running RotR and just about finished with the hidden beast encounter. But whats eluding me is that there seems to be no mention of how to reward the players for aiding the skulks. I was considering something like sneaking them past the giant encampment to reward them, and i suppose that acquiring one of the sihedron rings would seem like reward enough, but I don't really like the idea of them having chosen to go along with this little sidequest and having it contribute nothing aside from boost to their ego.
Didn't see this on here yet...
Ghlorofaex doesn't need Altitude Affinity, being a dragon.
Copy/paste fail that had me confused for a bit: The "Wardens of Thunder" and "Wardens of Wind" abbreviated stat blocks on page 56 mention "see page 120" and "see page 125" for their full stat blocks. Unless your issue of "Spires of Xin Shalast" has magically expanded, it only has 100 pages, so pages 120 and 125 don't exist.
Looking backward through the module, Wardens of Wind and Thunder are first listed back on page 48, where their abbreviated stat blocks correctly list "MM 120" and "MM 125" as the sources of the stat blocks. "Wardens of Runes" have abbreviated stat blocks that indicate to "see page 86" (the bestiary of the module), and I'm guessing for the page 56 hiccup, someone copied and pasted a "Warden of Runes" abbreviated block, and modified it into a Warden of Thunder/Wind block, but didn't change the "see page X" into "MM X", only changing the "X" from 86 to 120/125.
TL;DR: "Wardens of Thunder" are stock Storm Giants, "Wardens of Wind" are stock Cloud Giants; the abbreviated stat blocks on page 56 should read "MM 120" and "MM 125" rather than "see page 120" and "see page 125".
My party is getting into Xin-Shalast this week. Im pretty comfortable with the majority of the module but I have 1 question.
What are the stats of Chellan? I have a scimitar wielding Cleric of Sarenrae which I know will pick up the weapon. If no formal stats are known, what would you suggest?
Chellan's stats can be from page 52. There is a sidenote "Chellan, the sword of Greed". It's nice scimitar, my party didn't want to use cursed sword..
A little question...
In one place the text state that the Vekker brothers came here 70 years ago (p.10)... And another place states that there are broadsheets from Koevosa and Janderhoff dated 12 years ago (area B11).
When did the Vekker brothers get here, and when did they meet their demise? Could someone help me with the timeline for the Vekker's venture into the Kodars?
Ultradan
A little question...
In one place the text state that the Vekker brothers came here 70 years ago (p.10)... And another place states that there are broadsheets from Koevosa and Janderhoff dated 12 years ago (area B11).
When did the Vekker brothers get here, and when did they meet their demise? Could someone help me with the timeline for the Vekker's venture into the Kodars?
Ultradan
Here is what I put together for my campaign:
To me the broadsheet reference is an error. From what I recall the Vekkers were already dead. See my timeline above.
Neat!
I'll use THAT!!
Thanks Cibet!
Ultradan
I wanted to have some handout material for the directions to Xin-Shalast. So far I have this, a page telling about the dwarves discovery of the city.
I'm not sure if I'll do the other pages.
Just took a look at your work...
WOW! MORE!!!
lol
Did you happen do do more of this?
Ultradan
What are the rules behind Viorian's full attack iteration? +28/+25/+20/+15 is a 2/5/5/5 progression, rather than all fives.
Her heavy steel shield counts as a "one-handed weapon" for doing a shield bash with it, so with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat that means -4 to attack for both hands' attacks.
So, I get an attack of: 18 (BAB), +8 (Str), +5 (Chellan enhancement), +1 (Weapon Focus), +1 (Greater Weapon Focus), -4 (two-weapon fighting), -1 (Large size) = 28. And a damage roll of 2d6 (as large scimitar), +8 (Str), +5 (Chellan enhancement), +2 (Weapon Specialization), +2 (Greater Weapon Specialization) = 2d6+17.
So, I believe her full attack should be: Chellan +28/+23/+18/+13 (2d6+17/15-20) and shield bash +21 (1d56+4). The standard attack is correct (with 10 point Power Attack).
My player devoted all the party spellcasters to counterspelling and spell interruption attempts. (Basically, various forms of Readying an action to disrupt Karzoug's spellcasting.) So, all he got off was his Quickened spell and a fireball from the staff, and then the fight was over.
It was a big party by that point due to NPC recruitment. A smaller one might have had more trouble. As it was, I had given Karzoug several allies (a Xanesha clone and the fighter with the Runesword) and it made no difference.
I personally have not seen challenging fights at these levels. One way or another they are over almost instantly. That's part of why I prefer to run and play with lower level caps. My player didn't seem too upset about Karzoug's sudden death, but neither was it a memorable climax encounter, and from my point of view it was a lot of prep for no payback.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My players are starting Spires in our next session...
We've always 'fast-forwarded', or narrated, wilderness travel to get to the neat story parts (since we only get to play like once a month). So for this book, I'll be trying to make it more about the epic journey than the actual final fight. I want them to get to the end cold, out of breath, and nearly out of ressources. And having them remembering the last book like an extra long wilderness search for the fabled city of Xin-Shalast.
I'll maybe even convince them, at one point, that this will most likely be a one-way trip.
Ultradan
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
We just started this final book on Sunday. Our party consists of three 16th-level characters (Kyra, Merisiel, and a wizard) and three 10th-level characters from another adventure (dwarf crossbow master, human inquisitor, and dwarf fighter) who are there at the behest of a dragon playing the 'game' and hoping to win with the loot from Xin-Shalast (the culmination of another adventure we've been playing). Kyra and Merisiel are the only ones that have been with the party from the start.
Titus Scarnetti, indebted to Kyra for saving his family (and some incriminating documents) during "Fortress", agreed to bankroll the expedition in exchange for a 10% cut...and, with Titus, that *is* the 'friends and family' offer!
The group ported to a town in the foothills (I surmised there must be a 'last-chance' mining supply town) and spent 2 1/2 days hiking up the Kazaron to the Vekker's cabin. No encounters, though they did come across some Yeti footprints. Snow started lightly the first day and ramped up from there. That was the result of a pretty cool sequence of rolls on the random weather tables...by the time they got to the cabin they were thinking they might want to hole up there for a couple of days until the weather let up. They changed their minds when they learned more about the Vekkers history and how the same series of events led to the 'Vekker Party' incident played out by the haunts.
The group's Shoanti guide (oddly named "Aldo") stayed on watch in the downstairs watch room while the rest of the crew progressively tripped the haunts in the cabin. Unknown to them he went outside to look around and fell victim to the tree...and provided a great hook to the final big haunt (they thought it was him banging on the door). We finished up with Silas' plea to return his brother's body in exchange for information on how to reach Xin-Shalast.
Next week is the body recovery/wendigo seige. Some failed saves have them a tiny bit worried about madness and falling into the same trap as the Vekker party...so the reconciliation scene and wendigo attack should be pretty interesting. Hopefully we'll have enough time to do that and make it to the ice fens.
BTW, I've pre-rolled encounters for the trip. The first one I rolled was an adult white. Looking forward to rolling under 15% on the encounter dice so I can try to fit that in. May not result in combat but I maybe want it to do a high fly-over patrol sort of thing and scare them a little. Merisiel rolls crazy high stealth but some of the others are less fortunate so it'll make them scramble a bit...especially Kyra, who's flying on a rug with the only slow dwarf.
M
Edit: I'll add that Kyra and Merisiel were both granted title and land (the farms vacated by the ghoul plague in "Skinsaw") after the events in "Hook Mountain". Kyra has formed a cult...erm community...devoted to Sarenrae that is farming and taking in strays (including the goblin child rescued from Thistletop and the 'goldfish people' from the fountains in Runeforge). They're working on a book of the history of Thassilon, in conjunction with Quink. Meresiel has started a vinyard and general party site, devoted to all forms of gluttony and debauchery. Some day I anticipate the two towns will go to war...
Final Edit: One of the 'goldfish people' was actually a wizard's cat familiar that was baleful polymorphed...failed his fort save but not his will. Imagine being a cat in a goldfish's body for millennia, surrounded by real goldfish. Oh, the pain...