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What are people's experiences with Kaven Windstrike trying to slip away? I'm trying to get an idea how to handle this next session since last one ended with them rescuing the Black Arrows.
My take - Kaven is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he flees, it's tantamount to a confession. Especially if the players have seen the tattoo and put two and two together. If he stays, the chances of the tattoo being seen or the other Black Arrows figuring it out go up each day. He can't run away while the other Black Arrows think retaking the Fort is impossible because they'll immediately hunt him down for vengeance (since they have nothing else to do.) His best hope is the other Arrows die trying to retake the fort OR they make enough progress toward success that they won't stop just to chase him down. Alternatively he needs to get assigned a solitary mission - "Maybe someone should go back to Turtleback Ferry and warn the Mayor." According to his backstory he has family there - not outrageous that he might want to warn the town the Arrows can no longer protect them. Of course, if so dispatched he never goes to Turtleback Ferry and instead flees, vainly searching for Luctretia.
I was looking for more "this is what happened with my group" examples. I have a few scenarios floating around in my head, and understand the situation.
What are people's experiences with Kaven Windstrike trying to slip away? I'm trying to get an idea how to handle this next session since last one ended with them rescuing the Black Arrows.
I killed all the Black Arrows except for Tsuto (who I left alive mostly for laughs, as he hates the party).
I decided that the party didn't need the additional firepower of the Black Arrows.
They stomped all the Grauls outside the farmhouse (and I had added three and truly beefed them up) and made short work of Biggun' (I upped him to 160hp's and he still only survived four rounds of combat -- stupid spider!).
I also didn't bring Shalelu along (again, they didn't need help), so the whole side-story with her step-father won't come into play.
As far as knowing the layout of the Fort -- I figure they can figure it out on their own.
CJ
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My group took the Black Arrows along, plus Orik (who was sentenced to join the rangers, and transporting him there was the tie in from book 2). They came up from under the fort through the shocker lizard caves, which they bypassed thanks to the druid and the smoke advice, and ran right into Lucretia. She promptly did her "welcome home, Kaven, and thanks for delivering the last of the Black Arrows to me" speech. Upon hearing that, all eyes turned to him, he started to sputter a denial (piss-poor Bluff check) and Jakardros blew his top and turned from the lamia to attack Kaven! Kaven, who was "bringing up the rear" anyway turned and fled back down the tunnel, and by the time the party had dispatched Lucretia and went looking for him, he was nothing but a barbecued shocker lizard meal.
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My players want to pull the Paradise wreck up from the bottom. They even plan on making it a gambling ship for offshore of Sandpoint. I'm thinking Black Magga might have the wreck in her grasp when she washes ashore... and throws it at the church. Heh heh heh.
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The *one* reason I would give for you to reconsider is what happened with my party: They are very similar in nature; they did NOT want Black Magga in the lake, but after a few rounds of combat they knew she was out of their league. (As posted on other threads, if they don't have Freedom of Movement, you're going to have to figure out a reason she doesn't just grapple-n-kill them, which is indeed a strong argument for removing her.)
I portrayed Mayor Shreed as a major stud, and he evacuated the entire town to temporary shelters a mile away from the lake, beyond Magga's range. He told the party he could hold out there indefinitely. The party put "Black Magga" on their "To Do" list.
So yesterday, post-AP, the party roleplayed out their first mythic ascention tier (we may be going to Wrath of the Righteous next, so we want to play with the mythic rules a bit first to figure out what the heck we're doing), and a group of level 18/1 PCs met Black Magga. Shreed went with them and they allowed it, which was just awesome because they had to figure out how to let him feel useful without letting Magga one-round him, meaning there was actually a fight involved.
But yeah, 18th level paladin Smiting Evil meant it was a very short fight, but VERY satisfying to the players. Post-game they said that the #1 best thing about the entire 6.5-hour day was the sorcerer's ascention. The second was the Black Magga fight.
I write a campaign journal anyway, so if you want a "quick" long summary of the whole thing, I can post here under a spoiler in a couple of days.
Anyway, just my thoughts...
So, I get that Saving the Schoolchildren is all about the PC's imperiling their lives to save some innocents.
But what I don't get is why there is a schoolhouse in Turtleback Ferry.
Who pays Tillia's salary and why? And what is she teaching the children?
CJ
So, I get that Saving the Schoolchildren is all about the PC's imperiling their lives to save some innocents.
But what I don't get is why there is a schoolhouse in Turtleback Ferry.
Who pays Tillia's salary and why? And what is she teaching the children?
CJ
Are you asking about
(1) The presence of public education in a medieval society like Golarion (a valid question), or(2) The presence of schoolhouse in a town of "only" 430 people?
If it's the latter, I strongly suggest you take a drive through any rural community anywhere in the U.S. Even "podunk little towns" with populations in the double digits boast schoolhouses. Consider that roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population is kids 0-17, and even in a town of 130 you might find 20 (or more) kids under 17, and you realize that you need a schoolhouse.
Most such communities have one or two teachers whose classes span multiple grades, and who practice far more "novel" education techniques to cater to the wide array of ages. (For example, older students tutoring younger students in-class while the teacher is focusing on a third age group.)
For a town the size of Turtleback ferry, you're talking dozens of kids, and a full-time teacher (or even two or three) would be in order.
If you go by modern standards of at most 40 FTE (full-time enrollments) per teacher, you'd expect Turtleback ferry to have at least 2 teachers, and probably 3 or 4.
So it's not so much, "Why does Turtleback Ferry have a teacher?" as it is, "If Varisia in general (and Turtleback Ferry in particular) supports public education, then why does Turtleback Ferry have only ONE teacher?"
(1) The presence of public education in a medieval society like Golarion (a valid question), or
(2) The presence of schoolhouse in a town of "only" 430 people?
Mostly #1.
I grew up in Podunk when they actually had one-room school houses, so I'm familiar with #2.
I certainly I don't buy a program of public education in Varisia. Varisia which isn't so much a nation as a frontier area in part claimed by three competing city-states -- none of which would seem to have an interest in educating remote peasants. And filled with monsters!
I'm also not sure what you would be teaching said peasant children.
Reading, writing,and 'rithmatic? Why? Will it help them be better farmers, trappers, hunters, or fishers? Not that I'm aware of.
This goes into the pile of "stuff I'm changing" in this AP.
CJ
As I said, well-put and well-argued. "Modern" people don't realize that the notion of "public" education is only a couple of centuries old (Western-biased overgeneralization; let's not start THAT debate here) -- it used to be solely the domains of the well-to-do or the pious.
The schoolhouse scene is a "throwaway"; you can discard it or alter it and it has no lasting repercussions.
I *loved* the way the scene played out in my campaign because it turned Mayor Shreed from "throwaway NPC" to "cleric we admire the most in the world", but in the long run it's just fluff.
EDIT: And I notice that I changed it from a school to a church service. They didn't have public schools, but they sure as heck had religious schools, and lots of 'em!
I totally buy it as a church rather than a schoolhouse -- good suggestion, NobodysHome.
I'm still pondering all of Part Three: Down Comes the Rain. I think it might make a nice break from the "Kill the Ogres/Giants Train", but I'm having the usual problems with Skull's Crossing is 10K years old and survived the Earthfall.
A. It is 10,000 years old!!! (In the RW 10K years ago was the Upper Paleolithic period.) If it was going to fail, it would have failed way before now.
B. As stated previously by other contributors, fighting Black Magga doesn't really buy the party or the story much. And really pursuing her could be a fatal distraction.
C. Spillway?
CJ
Regarding point A, it has been established that important Thassilonian buildings and other construction projects had preservative magics, and that they were built to last by skilled stone giant engineers.
The main problem is that the preservative magics are finally decaying in the present day (which is why the dam is slowly starting to collapse). And the ruins were probably not earthquake-/meteor shower-proof (which is why some buildings were ruined earlier, like the Alaznist's "Old Light" and Karzoug's "sentinel statue" along the Rasp).
Regarding point A, it has been established that important Thassilonian buildings and other construction projects had preservative magics, and that they were built to last by skilled stone giant engineers.
The main problem is that the preservative magics are finally decaying in the present day (which is why the dam is slowly starting to collapse). And the ruins were probably not earthquake-/meteor shower-proof (which is why some buildings were ruined earlier, like the Alaznist's "Old Light" and Karzoug's "sentinel statue" along the Rasp).
Understood.
However, while I will grant that Skull Crossing has impressive preservation magics cast upon it -- either it is impervious to being physically dismantled or it isn't.
If it can be physically destroyed that would have already happened. Buildings from Turtleback to Ilsurian and beyond would have been built with the handy pre-quarried stone, the dam would have already been destroyed, and the Storval Deep drained and washed away everything downstream. (As a point of reference see what happens to ancient monuments in the RW or the Irespan in Magnimar.)
I'm also curious why the Black Arrows haven't explored it -- as it sits on their very doorstep. I can't imagine they were put off by a few trolls.
If it can't be physically destroyed, why would Barl bother sending the ogres to chip away at it?
Maybe I'm being to critical. Okay. No "maybe". I am being too critical.
Let me be constructive instead.
Let us say that Skull Crossing IS capable of being physically destroyed, but the remoteness and proximity to monsters (like Black Magga) has kept the local quarrymen and masons at bay. It isn't like Skull Crossing is right next to a deep draft harbor or any place any sane individual would want to build a town or city. Though I imagine that large parts of Fort Rannick were built with stones stolen from the dam. This would give Barl's ogres very convenient points to physically attack (those areas already weakened by the actions of the fort's builders) and a chance of causing enough physical damage to break the dam.
I also gives us a source of stones for Fort Rannick without needing to quarry the local stone -- always a pain. And I can indicate that the stones of Fort Rannick (when the party gets there) seem in many ways far too large for humans to have quarried. Nice bit of detail that they will ponder.
I can probably live with that.
Thanks all.
CJ
Why would anyone want to pull apart a dam when there are dozens of communities (most too small to bother being on the map) in the region that would be flooded should it let go? Seriously.
And given that the Fort is built into the side of a mountain, there's no need to chip pieces off of a dam (which is infested with trolls, an ettin, and Black Magga) when there's a handy mountain cliff where you can pull material from and not transport materials. Seriously.
It's a bit of a no-brainer really. Given the remoteness of the area, the small population, and the monster population, why rip apart a perfectly good dam?
Why would anyone want to pull apart a dam when there are dozens of communities (most too small to bother being on the map) in the region that would be flooded should it let go? Seriously.
And given that the Fort is built into the side of a mountain, there's no need to chip pieces off of a dam (which is infested with trolls, an ettin, and Black Magga) when there's a handy mountain cliff where you can pull material from and not transport materials. Seriously.
It's a bit of a no-brainer really. Given the remoteness of the area, the small population, and the monster population, why rip apart a perfectly good dam?
There is a big, big difference between stones that can be used as building material and your average "pulled this off the mountain" stone. There is also a whole industry around quarrying stones for building materials -- and quarried stones aren't cheap.
"I didn't build the dam -- so why should I care? It is far cheaper and easier to move stones already cut than to cut my own. Magnimar is financing this and they are cheap," said the project manager.
As far as those villages downstream -- "I'm sure if I take just a few stones it won't matter. I mean this dam has stood for hundreds of years. A couple stones won't make a difference," said every builder ever.
Finally, what villages? I'm not assuming that those villages even existing when Fort Rannick was built (4662). More likely that the security provided by Fort Rannick allowed for settlements along Clay Bottom Lake. Before Fort Rannick it was a monster infested wilderness.
-- We know when Ilsurian was founded (4631), but I'm not sure there is information on when Turtleback Ferry, Pendak, or Bitter Hollow were founded.
CJ
Okay. Now factor in that there are ogres in the area that raid the region... and that there was a sizable population of trolls and an ettin living at the dam, along with a damn huge squid-monster. The trolls seem to have enjoyed feeding off of fish and local animals rather than going after any villages in the area. So the Black Arrows didn't go after them, especially when there was a huge population of ogres that were an immediate threat.
Next, why build a fort if no one is in the area? What is there to defend? Turtleback Ferry at least existed. Smaller farming communities may very well have. We don't have proof that it didn't. It's human nature to expand into new areas and the Rangers existed primarily so to help those communities survive. This is suggested by the text in the Anniversary Edition of Runelords, and may have been expanded upon in other materials as well (or even the original modules).
Third, quarrying stone from a huge-ass dam with material that is resistant to aging is not exactly the easiest of things to do. That increases costs. Magnimar isn't going to want to spend that extra money. They'll say "screw that added expense. We're paying you to build a damn fort, not a new Magnimar! If you want to spend your own money to harvest money from the dam, you can hire your own monster-killers to do so. And transport that material up a mountainous pathway that doesn't have a regular road."
Fourth: Magic. You can use various enchantments to help improve the quality of materials on site (and for all we know, the material at that location may have been fine enough that they didn't need to quarry elsewhere - you don't have evidence that it wasn't like that, and given the size of the fort it seems likely they didn't need to transport material a far distance else we'd see a town having been built around the fort to support construction and then remain on site).
Chicken-and-egg.
There were probably some trappers and hunters in the region prior to Fort Rannick -- but until the rangers arrived they were probably easy pickings for the Kreeg's. Which would account for why the Black Arrows vigorously worked to eliminate them.
I think that Magnimar probably had interests in the area. They added Wartle to their domain in 4611, Galduria sometime after 4629, and Nybor sometime after 4641.
Actually, I think it is a stupid place to build a fort from a strategic sense. But, we sort of have to work with what we are given. And if the fort was actually at Turtleback Ferry (which would make more sense), our story would fall apart...
Not to belabor the point -- but please show me the magic that enables easy quarrying and dressing of stone? And how much does that cost? I'm not saying that stealing stones from Skull Crossing would be cheap, but it might be the cheaper alternative to either hiring skilled masons or wizards.
I also not sure the ROI on Fort Rannick would justify the expense of carving such a place out of the side Hook Mountain. It could be that the rangers got all sorts of "undocumented" treasure from the battle of the Valley of Broken Trees and used that the build their new fort.
I don't think there is a "right" answer to all of this -- just different ways of interpreting the text and providing for a "good story" (or really just a good time by the players). For my part, I'm mostly going to rely on the fact that my players are largely uninterested in anything outside of "where are the monsters" and "how do we kill them". They are pretty happy to follow the plot train without questioning "why". The only one asking "why" is me, the GM, and I'm not sure the answer matters.
CJ
Stone Shape. You don't even need to shape the specific rock itself (in case of dispelling) - just shape the rock AROUND the block so that it can be removed. It's a 3rd level Druid or Cleric spell with a material component of clay. And that 5th level cleric can do 15 cubic feet of stone - which with a creative use of the spell to shape specific rock away from the rock you are quarrying can end up being quite a few blocks of rock. You can even just shape certain areas and allow miners to chisel away the rest of the rock to separate it.
So, I get that Saving the Schoolchildren is all about the PC's imperiling their lives to save some innocents.
But what I don't get is why there is a schoolhouse in Turtleback Ferry.
Who pays Tillia's salary and why? And what is she teaching the children?
CJ
There were schools before Public education. Back in the past, it used to be as simple as "I have money and need a service" And someone would say "I can offer and service and need money!"
But religious schools were around centuries before Public ones.
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Yeah, I’m not going to be able to resist. I’m going to extend Down Comes the Rain.
The ogres, now led by Nostendra, a stone giant engineer/mason, have done enough damage to the Skull’s Crossing to allow Black Magga to get out of the Storval Deep. She is now loose in Claybottom Lake – and I plan on treating it like a typical lake monster mystery.
I’ve done away with the bridges over the Skull River – and replaced them with a single giant turtle-shell ferry at the place where the lower bridge is indicated on the area map. This is the “Turtleback Ferry” and it has been run by a Shoanti family since before the coming of the tshamek to this area. A massive rope hawser stretches across the Skull, which brothers Chorkus and Beyus use to haul their boats across (dudes have enormous thews from all the hauling). They have two turtle-backs, so they also row passengers across Claybottom to Pendak or Bitter Hollow.
The first sign of trouble will be a snapped hawser – which should raise some eyebrows. This will be followed by some wrecked fishing nets and then an empty fishing boat. I want to gradually up the ante (so I’m looking for suggestions – bathers on the beach in January seems extreme).
As I have a couple of giant gars and a giant snapping turtle in Claybottom Lake – an epic kaiju battle might be fun. If the party chooses to get involved – so much the better. I have a rather reckless druid who has a thing for kaiju. I can totally see him shape-changing and jumping in the fray!
The village of Pendak isn’t very well protected – so having Black Magga ravage it might be fun.
In my campaign the Queen of Paradise, Lucrecia’s gambling boat, still plies the waters of Claybottom Lake and the Skull River (down to Ilsurian). Lucrecia hasn’t yet pulled the plug (so to speak) and drowned all the greedy souls for her Master. However it won’t be long before Black Magga does her work for her. I hope to have the party on the Queen while that is happening. I think having them fight Lucrecia and her faceless stalker assassins while Black Magga is sinking the boat will be a fun battle.
All of this will give me time to play on the rising waters of Claybottom Lake. The party will be able to see that if the waters get too high Black Magga will be able to more easily assault the village of Turtleback Ferry. This will give them impetus to go to Skull Crossing and halt the activities of the ogre destruction crew, stop the hag coven, and close the floodgates (rather than open them – duh – the problem isn’t releasing the waters – the ogre created spillway is already doing that – but rather limiting the amount of water that is being released).
If the party doesn’t do something and if she isn’t licking her wounds at the bottom of the lake, Black Magga will assault Turtleback Ferry crushing the log palisade (something I added) and running (swimming, wallowing) rampant through the streets. Given the rest of what is going on I will probably skip the night belly boa encounter. And the school encounter is now (more aptly) a church encounter. Should be a good time.
CJ
All right, I need some advice. My group just finished taking back Fort Rannick, they have multiple leads and are taking a day to rest before they head out. I have an event planned for our Fighter dealing with Hellknights on his heels, but that will only take about half the session, and I'm not sure how to properly prepare for the second half.
If they choose to go after the Nymph, I won't need to draw anything out, but if they go to the dam, I'd need to prepare that map, and I'd need a completely different map for the town. There may even be another route they can take...
Do you guys think it would be a good idea to just railroad them towards the town if they choose to go after the Dam? Or do you guys have better ideas?
Well, they have three leads that I can think of:
- The Shimmerglens
- The dam
- The caves
Yes, they could go back to town for a fourth possible encounter.
My impression is that the AP is designed for them to take any of the four possible options. Is there a reason one of them doesn't work for you? I'd just have all four ready...
2) Just because the dam is resistant to the effects of weather, doesn't make it resistant to the effects of a pick. 'But it would have to be' you say? Magic doesn't make sense...
-So the damn's stone may only be as hard as normal stone (8).
3) None of the humans would want to destroy the damn. Look at the size of Storval deep lake, can you imagine the flood is you screwed up? Dismantling it would have to be done slowly and carefully. The dam may also serve a good purpose, like stopping flooding that may could convert the entire area in swamplands.
4) There are plenty of mountain ranges where people could quarry stone that are closer to the larger cities. Why risk death fighting trolls and ogres and possibility of flooding yourself and everyone else in the land when you could go to a nearby mountain range and do it.
Not sure what your point is.
I possit, that if the dam were easy to chip and break or quarry someone would have done so. People are stupid. At some point in the last 10K years some idiot would have attempted to break the dam. That is just human (and humanoid) nature. They would have broken the dam and they would have done it in the most stupid way possible. Stealing stone from an unattended monument is easy -- just look at our own very limited RW history -- which currently doesn't include much of anything still standing after 10K years. People are terrible at thinking through their actions. Do a quick google search on dam disasters and you will see plenty of modern examples of basic human greed and laziness resulting in disaster.
Nevermind that there have been evil humanoids in the area for thousands of years as well.
If their actions didn't break the dam before now -- why would it suddenly work now? I get that: OMG the DAM is Gonna Bust is good theater! (I think it more "camp" than good theater though.) And sure I'm going to let the party think that the actions of the ogres in breaking the dam migh result in catastropy. But am I worried about it actually bursting? Probably not. The party will think it is an emergency, which is fine. They know "jack" about Thassalonian engineering.
5) As for the school house. Golarion has firearms that weren't invented until the 14th century, private schools (doesn't say its a public school) have been around in England since 597 (The King's School, Canterbury). So a school house is no problem believing.
The King's School was founded by St. Augustine wasn't it? And it taught monks (certainly through most of the Middle Ages). Not exactly a one-room frontier school house teaching the local children.
Don't get me started on anything close to the historical accuracy of Golarion's firearms. They are more magic than technology.
My point is that the local infrastructure of TBF would probably not support the schoolhouse (complete with Pretty School Marm, 1 ea.) as written. My party is pretty much done with worrying about TBF at this point. They demolished Black Magga (while fighting her at full health in the middle of the lake) and are now on to deal with Fort Rannick and Skull Crossing.
CJ
Well, they have three leads that I can think of:
- The Shimmerglens
- The dam
- The cavesYes, they could go back to town for a fourth possible encounter.
My impression is that the AP is designed for them to take any of the four possible options. Is there a reason one of them doesn't work for you? I'd just have all four ready...
We play at my friend's house and we alternate between his WotR game and my RotRL game, so I arrive early to draw out maps. We may, but probably don't have enough mats for me to draw out the possible encounters, but only about half an hour to do it.
I don't have the book handy, remind me about the caves?
Well, they have three leads that I can think of:
- The Shimmerglens
- The dam
- The cavesYes, they could go back to town for a fourth possible encounter.
My impression is that the AP is designed for them to take any of the four possible options. Is there a reason one of them doesn't work for you? I'd just have all four ready...
We play at my friend's house and we alternate between his WotR game and my RotRL game, so I arrive early to draw out maps. We may, but probably don't have enough mats for me to draw out the possible encounters, but only about half an hour to do it.
I don't have the book handy, remind me about the caves?
I was trying to be vague. "The caves" are Hook Mountain itself, where BB is.
And yeah, I feel your pain on not having enough time. Imagine my "joy" when they got to the Runeforge and could go in any one of 7 directions to a full-blown dungeon in each direction...
Ah, right, I'm trying to dissuade them from going there before they finish all the side treks, they're pretty good about doing everything.
And I'm absolutely DREADING the Runeforge. I may try and time it so we arrive there right at the end of a session so I can make them choose a path before hand, or even use a Google Doc to do some RP and map a route.
I'm also contemplating trying to buy some map paper.
Well, my group was really reasonable with me. They'd identified the runelords so they knew which wings they were going to do, so they would give me a week's notice. "We're going to do Pride first." "OK, now that we're almost done with Pride, we're going to head to Lust next."
It made my life SOOOOO much easier. If I were you, I'd give the PCs a bit of Thassilonian knowledge so they know which runelord represents which sin, then ask them ahead of time, "Which sin do you think you're going to explore first?" Each wing is more than one session's worth of content, so once you're ending the session you can just say, "OK, you're about 1/3 of the way through Lust. Which wing do you think you'll be doing after Lust?"
Makes life MUCH easier.
Of course, now we're stepping outside of the realm of "The Hook Mountain Massacre", so I'll toddle off now...
I appreciate the advice! You've been a great resource through my campaign, heh.
My players should not read this
Question about the pit fiend. He lived in my campaign, and my thought was I could use him as a one time get out of jail free card for my party, which I think they are going to need for the dragon in book 5. Then later I would maybe have him try to kill him as the book states.
My question is this, he has been trapped for 10,000 years and has 19 negative levels when he got released, but he can cast wish once per year, which would let him cast greater restoration, which removes all negative levels right? So he would come back as a full powered pit fiend.
Thanks.
Considering this is a GM thread, you shouldn't need spoilers, but just to be polite:
Your interpretation is correct:
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components).
In other words, he doesn't need diamond dust to be able to cast the Wish.
Wish: When a wish duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 10,000 gp, you must provide that component (in addition to the 25,000 gp diamond component for this spell).
Again, since Greater Restoration only uses 5,000 g.p. worth of diamond dust, he gets to eschew that as well.
-----
HOWEVER, I would ask, "What is the motivation of the pit fiend?"
Since he's a devil, he's all about living up to the exact word of any deal he made. But since he's a devil, he will try to bend or corrupt that word as much as possible to make the outcome as unfavorable as possible to the person who exacted the promise.
So I trust you have an idea as to why he's doing it, but definitely avoid the whole "pit fiend as a white knight in shining armor" scenario. The armor doesn't fit him, and chafes in awkward places.
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Ok, starting book three.
The first encounter with the Ogrekin has one of them hunting a cat.
It says that he/it is singing a kitten song as it is fighting the cat.
Did anyone else come up with some lyrics or a song for the encounter?
I was thinking something along the line of this:
(song to the tune of 'Oh so pretty")
Oh the Kitty!
Oh so Pretty!
Will be my lunch tonite!
Oh the Kitty
Smells so pretty!
Crunchy will be my meal tonite!
Oh the kitty!
Come on Kitty!
Your eyes will be my treat tonite!
Silly kitty!
Stupid Kitty!
Don’t know when your done, that’s right
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Just got to this last session. Let's just say that when he started singing, he was singing a word that also means kitten. The crudeness fits in with the rest of the Grauls, but you should definitely know the limits of what you can get away with for your group.
Also, I found out that one of my players is revolted by deformity. Definitely sucks for him in this part.
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So in my last session, the pc's returned to TBF from liberating Fort Rannick (liberating is perhaps too positive a word given the Herculean effort it's going to take to restore it to any sort of functionality) and as they approached the town I ran into a problem (which multiple pre-readings had not helped me discover.)
The description text (p.161, AE) says "... A group of children and a woman huddle aboard one of the old turtleshell ferryboats, the tiny flood-bashed vessel lodged up against the general store and threatening to capsize at any moment."
And from the Saving the Schoolchildren write-up (p. 162, AE) - "When the flash flood struck, TILLIA HENKENSON (NG female human expert 2) was instructing a class of young boys and girls in the schoolhouse. As the floodwaters poured into the front door of the riverfront building, Tillia and her class evacuated and sought out one of the ferries for shelter, but were then pinned to the side of the general store by the rushing water before they could reach safety on the shore. They have languished here for the past several hours, watching the waters rise."
That all sounds very interesting, except the map I have in the Appendix (p. 394 AE) has the Schoolhouse (#8) as the building furthest from the river as any in town. Arguably there isn't even a building on the map for #8 so maybe that's a map error. But the General Store is #5 and it's at least 100 feet from the waterline (dashed line on map.) No matter where the schoolhouse is and no matter how Tillia and the kids got in the ferry, it cannot end up pinned to the General Store. Unless the store is also incorrectly labeled and in which case I should just throw the map away.
I had to think of an alternative on the fly - Tillia and the kids were on a "field trip" to Pendaka when the floodwaters hit. It swept the ferry man away and Tillia has struggled just to keep the ferry upright and not similarly swept away. (They are at the Claybottom Ferry landing, #3.) She hasn't been there for several hours but really only a few minutes. (I mean, seriously, in a town of 400+ people no one noticed or cared to do anything for them for several hours? "Well, that it for them then." Really?)
And this revealed another problem I hadn't thought much about beforehand - if, as subsequently described, Black Magga arrives and starts venting her fury on the Church of Erastil (which is the building furthest out in the flood waters) and my players are on shore (say near #4 or #5) what exactly are they supposed to do about it given the church is a good 400 feet away in raging river waters? (And if the waters aren't "raging" why are the schoolchildren in any danger?)
Fortunately my clever players solved my problems for me. The wizard (conjuration specialist) summoned some water elementals (medium, Summon Monster V) and had them move the ferry to the new shore in the middle of town. And when Black Magga arrived, they all got in the ferry and headed out to take her on. Of course, hilarity ensued as most got caught in her breath weapon (including a couple of the elementals "driving" the ferry) and they were pretty ineffectual against her DR. Eventually the wizard figured out he should stop using spells that allow spell resistance, a couple attacks actually got a few points past her DR and the wizard went to the crown jewel of low level summoned monsters: the lantern archon. At that point, BM who already was having a bad day, had had enough. The players were pretty frustrated by the experience (I on the other hand enjoyed it immensely) but the townsfolk of TBF think the pc's are AWESOME! They don't know anything about spell resistance or damage resistance, all they know is that a creature from their worst nightmares showed up and started tearing down their church and these lunatics from Magnimar got in a turtle shell and chased it off. And they haven't even heard about Fort Rannick yet.
And that leaves me with one last problem: like it seems NobodysHome group above, my players are... ummm, completionists. They don't like to lose and they don't like loose ends (which certainly stems from their own issues and has nothing to do with several years of experience with a GM that whips them silly with loose ends. Nope, has nothing to do with that at all.) They are not going to just let Black Magga "go." They are going to want definitive evidence (their preference: corpse) that she will not be trouble in the future. When you think about it, Black Magga loose in the rivers of lowland Varisia isn't quite as terrifying as Karzoug on the loose but it's in the neighborhood. My answer: they'll likely spend some time searching the lake and find no trace. If/when they head up river toward Skull's Crossing, they'll see a spot on the east bank where something very large crawled out of the river and into Ashwood. The implication, she's trying to get back to the Storval Deep. If they want to follow her, they can and take such risks as that entails.
ps. If you're asking how the wizard could give the elementals commands like, "move the ferry" - he has a feat - Hordetongue that lets him share a language with his summoned creatures.
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Yeah, I just ran the flood scene last week with my group last week, and also noticed that the town geography doesn't match the description of the event. So I ignored the geography.
My PCs don't know (or care) why there was a woman with a bunch of kids in a boat, being battered against one of the buildings (closest to the church, which was still a distance away). They just wanted to help them. And they did it in style - Levitate spell on the boat! The snake couldn't reach them, and it was no longer battered by the waves. Of course, I described the kids shreiking in fear when the boat first started rising, but once they realized they were safe, all was well. The group waded out to kill the snake (the description says the water's 3 feet deep, so I just treated it as difficult terrain, not actual swimming), and it was a short fight.
The boxed text also describes people visible in the upper floor windows of the church, so my group then grabbed another boat and started rowing towards the church to try and evacuate it. I gave them a few rounds to get there before Black Magga showed up, so they were already close to where combat would take place.
Of course, BM hits them with the breath weapon, and nobody made the 27 Will save to avoid the wisdom damage and confusion, so wackiness ensued. The oracle and sorceress both tried blasting Black Magga with Fireballs (or Acidball, in the sorceress's case), and they were glad they both had Spell Penetration, though only the oracle managed to damage her. By the time the fight ended, the oracle had flown to a safe distance to keep casting at her, while the entire rest of the party was grappled (I decided BM would immobilize every enemy rather than focusing her attacks and probably killing a primary target). Then she dropped her three grappled PCs and ran away, taking a longsword crit from the paladin as an attack of opportunity as she fled.
Luckily, my party aren't so big on chasing down loose ends. In my campaign, Malfeshnekor is still alive, because he kicked their butts the first time, so they decided to leave him trapped in his room until they were powerful enough to come back and punish him properly. They just haven't gotten around to it yet.
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As I've written, my scene with the school kids was one of the most memorable, moving scenes of the entire AP for my players. They still talk about it, and tried to replace both Mayor Groboras AND Father Zantus with Mayor Shreed after one etched-in-their-memory scene.
And I used the church, not the school.
EDIT: And for the sake of those who don't read my journals, I have far more "active" gods than many. It is VERY clear when a god is pleased or displeased with you, making it far easier to play a cleric or paladin. None of this fall/no fall nonsense unless you do something REALLY egregious. If you're on the wrong path, your armor dulls, your holy symbols fade, and you know you're on the rocks. If you're on the right path and your god has the Light domain, you might not even need a Light spell in the darkness...
I ran this yesterday and also ignored the town layout from the appendix. I ran it as water deep enough for most people to stand in (though the water was up to the Dwarf in the party's collarbone). I ruled it on the fly that a successful swim check at the DC in the book meant being able to use the rushing currents to move freely and quickly, failing by less than 10 meant difficult terrain, and failure by more than 10 meant getting swept off foot and taken in a direction that might be different from the one you wanted. I stopped calling for swim checks about round 2 of that encounter (because the water started to recede) and because of worrying about Black Magga, nobody noticed... so that worked out almost exactly like the book suggests.
I also ignored the layout of the town from the appendix (though my players had fortunately never needed to be shown the specific layout) and just has Black Magga show up at a building "reasonably close" to them. Just far enough away that she couldn't get a full round attack in round 2.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
I just picked up a red dragonkin from the RoW PF battles set and wanted to know whether anybody has used the dragonkin+rider as replacement for Longtooth or in addition in Stones over Sandpoint? What would be good tactics for such a foe?
Maybe some recurring villain could use the dragonkin as mount?
Thanks in advance.
Ruyan.
Mammy Graul question. As a Necromancer, does her Channel Negative Energy actually do damage? Or is it only there to power her Command Undead feat (as per Power Over Undead)?
What did you do with Shalelulu logistically? Did you run her yourself or give her to an interested PC? I'm thinking of giving her to the party ninja who seems like he's getting bored.
Additionally, did you assume these encounters were balanced for the 4 PC's plus Shalelulu, or did you make it harder, as though another party member was playing?
What about when the 3 Black Arrows join?
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1.) I did some checking when I ran the encounter. I believe that is her necromancer ability to command undead.
2.) I let a member of the party run her. Once they saved the Black Arrows she stayed out with them to protect them while they cleared the house.
3.) I actually had to beef up the encounters. I gave Mammy another level and had her dim door outside and fly around raising all her dead sons into zombies. By the time the party had got outside she was invisible and hiding in the corn field.
4.) As far as the Grauls go I didn't really have them get involved. When offered healing they told the group that they would need it more than them and then gave them as much info as they could to take down Mammy.
5.) I was really appreciative of ... Gluttony's (I think it was Gluttony who came up with it) idea to make Crowfood and Hucker more rogue-like. I believe it was mentioned in the 'Things you regret/are glad you changed thread'. Basically Crowfood gets improved drag to grab a passing player/shalelu and drag them into the corn to mutilate them and then uses spring attack/sneak attack to chop them up.
Hucker Graul with an oil of deeper darkness and blind-fight was amazing for my group. They were terrified of him and revolted by the entire place which they burned to ashes after it was over.
EDIT: Special kudos that the poster that suggested having Hucker Graul roam around the house stealthed behind the party resetting all the traps.
I didn't change the encounters to account for the additional NPC's.
Shalelu joined the party at the departure from Magnimar. I didn't like her multiclass build and changed her to a 6th level ranger. She fought alongside the party against the Grauls. The Black Arrows, for obvious reasons, did not. The Black Arrows did fight at Fort Rannick but that wasn't as impactful as you might think - Kaven didn't make it to the Fort (the players saw his tattoo when he was first rescued and because they had done quite a bit of investigation at Turtleback Ferry including diving to the Paradise, his initial story about where it came from was an obvious lie) and Vale died very early on in the first round of combat against Jaagrath (they entered from the top of the Fort.) So really the additions have been Shalelu and Jakardros.
After Rannick, the pc's went to Turtleback and fought Black Magga (not very effectively) and then to Skull's Crossing. The Black Arrows (they raised Vale) and Shalelu stayed in town in case BM came back. They all will go to Whitewillow and Hook Mountain, though.
So, the NPC's have added to the pc's strength but I haven't paid any attention to whether the encounters are balanced for their addition. I haven't had to care but then again I dramatically change tactics from the written version to increase difficulty anyway (short version: nothing stays in its room waiting to die and enemies cooperate much more purposefully than typical tactics in the AP.)
As to how I handle them, I run the NPC's but other than occassionally making decisions based on their own perceptions (and as Shalelu and Jakardros reconcile, he makes more decisions in reference to her) I let the pc's set their tactics: Who should I shoot? I've loaded them into Hero Lab and this makes them very easy to run, including adding buffs such as bard song or haste, etc.
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My group left Jakardros, Vale, and Shalelu at Fort Rannick, after killing all the ogres there and chasing down Kaven to kill the traitor. The Mayor of Turtleback Ferry is sending word to Magnimar about the Black Arrows mostly being dead, in the hopes of getting reenforcements to repopulate the fort.
So after "defeating" Black Magga, the PCs moved on to Skull's Crossing. Despite me intentionally showing them the map of the wilderness area (so they could see that Fort Rannick is right along the way, though I didn't specifically point that out to them), the thought of stopping by to ask Shalelu and the Black Arrows to come with them never occurred to them. It wouldn't surprise me if they tackle Hook Mountain without them, too.
My group does a LOT of damage, though, so most of the fights have been too easy. I don't mind them not taking advantage of additional allies that could be available.