Burnt Offerings Clarifications (GM Reference)


Rise of the Runelords

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Chewbacca wrote:


My PC saved Aiko (or whatever her name) in Glassworks ("La Verrerie" :D). And my bard PC really want to flirt with her.

How do I manage that ?
I introduced her as a rather wild beauty who loves song, story telling and dance but can sometimes be rather sad.
It's either they start to flirt and get married and have plenty of children .... (and the bard gets rich).
Or she gets very much back in the old trails (excuse my french ;o) ) and behave as noble should be and find a noble man to marry.

I think the best way to handle it is to allow the PC to flirt a little, and if his charisma is high enough and he's not offensive, she might possibly seem interested - but I wouldn't let it get past that. I most definitely would not let it get to the point that marriage is an option or her going back to her adventuring career - I haven't read the future installments yet, but I believe she continues to play a major role as an NPC down the road. As long as your player thinks he has a chance, but doesn't "seal the deal", it should keep things interesting.

Chewbacca wrote:


Also in PF1, there is a hint that Cydrak the bard at the theather(yeah i'm not good at names ) does not really like Aiko due to some old story in MAgnimar. Could you give me a hint on that. My PC Bard is of course a good friend of Cyrdak and would be interested to know his story.

I don't know if this story is developed in later installments, but I think at this point the players are not supposed to find out. If they are extra pushy and you want to go that route, here are a couple of options I have thought of:

1. Ameiko starred in his plays for a bit, but was replaced by another actress by Cyrday, who gave in to demands from the local Sczarni.

2. Ameiko discovered that Cyrdak had been having "improper" relations with her half-brother, Tsuto. Even though Tsuto is infatuated with Nualia currently, he could have been a vulnerable target for Cyrdak at some point.

3. During Ameiko's adventuring days, Cyrdak hired her and her companions to investigate something and return an item to him. She did so, but was not paid. She could not go to the lord-mayor because the act was questionable, and she did not want to attract attention of the Sczarni. This was one reason she chose to quit adventuring.

Chewbacca wrote:


Finally, that's really a shame that the smugglers tunnel has no map because the writings do not REALLY help. I don't imagine a tunnel running NE with the southernpart of the tunnel running West .... It is simply not possible IMO.

I agree - it's confusing figuring out how the tunnel leaves the glassworks and ends up in the Catacombs of Wrath. I simplified it for my characters, and didn't really focus on mapping it for them. The just know that they walked in a long tunnel, where one part opened up into a sea cave, and the other side had a collapsed passage and the path that eventually leads to B1 - the Sinspawn.

Chewbacca wrote:
I realised I have a final question... Sinspawn and the Quasit have respectively "Fast healing I & II". what does that mean ? They heal HP every round ?

I had the exact same question, and had a hard time finding a clear answer. I am playing it as though those two creatures regenerate HP at the rate of their healing. For example, the sinspawn heals 1hp per round, and the quasit (Erylium) heals 2hp per round. Maybe someone who knows more than me can clarify that.

Good luck with your campaign! My players and I are loving it!


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Venture-Captain Shalelu and Chewbacca,

Here are the offical 3.5 rules for Fast Healing, taken right from the d20SRD.org

d20SRD.org wrote:

Fast Healing

A creature with fast healing has the extraordinary ability to regain hit points at an exceptional rate. Except for what is noted here, fast healing is like natural healing.

At the beginning of each of the creature’s turns, it heals a certain number of hit points (defined in its description).

Unlike regeneration, fast healing does not allow a creature to regrow or reattach lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached.

A creature that has taken both nonlethal and lethal damage heals the nonlethal damage first.

Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

Fast healing does not increase the number of hit points regained when a creature polymorphs.

Hope that helps!

Dark Archive

Venture-Captain Shalelu wrote:


I don't know if this story is developed in later installments, but I think at this point the players are not supposed to find out. If they are extra pushy and you want to go that route, here are a couple of options I have thought of:

1. Ameiko starred in his plays for a bit, but was replaced by another actress by Cyrday, who gave in to demands from the local Sczarni.

2. Ameiko discovered that Cyrdak had been having "improper" relations with her half-brother, Tsuto. Even though Tsuto is infatuated with Nualia currently, he could have been a vulnerable target for Cyrdak at some point.

At first I thought I would take idea 1 + 2 but after all Ameiko is a nobleborn so wouldn't probably be an actress.... So finally I will develop idea Number 2.

That's a great idea !

I know that D&D (oops excuse my french !) .. I mean Pathfinder RP Game can be played by children but we are always missing the ranchy juicy bits we have in real life !
Yeah I know ... We, French, are perverts ;o)

Thanks for the help on fast healing.

I didn't use it for the Quasit as it was already a real pain in the arse and it took my players almost 2 hours to kill the bugger .
So a healing of 2 HP / rounds would have simply killed them .... by boredom.
But I will use it for the Sinspawn ....

I have another question.

DO I have to make additionnal rolls for the treasuries the monsters may have or is it "all included" in the dungeons ?

It seems quite poor to me (specially in gold) or is it just a feeling ?

Anyway THANKS A LOT for your help.

Sovereign Court

Chewbacca wrote:


DO I have to make additionnal rolls for the treasuries the monsters may have or is it "all included" in the dungeons ?

It seems quite poor to me (specially in gold) or is it just a feeling ?

Salut ;)

Normally, you just keep what treasure is actually in the adventure. I think there was a thread where James Jacobs actually said that this was a bit over the "estimated PC wealth" as described in the DM's guide.

I think it can vary from one campaign to the next. For example, in my campaign, I allowed the PC's to sell Large-sized items for 10% of the normal price (I guess for materials). So even though they couldn't use the giants' gear, they still got _something_ out of it.

Also, in the Skinsaw Murders, a large part of the wealth the PC's will gain is the several thousand gold pieces reward that the Lord-Mayor gives them at the end. If they somehow botch the mission and fail to get that, it will put them behind the curve, I guess.


Moonbeam wrote:
Chewbacca wrote:


DO I have to make additionnal rolls for the treasuries the monsters may have or is it "all included" in the dungeons ?

It seems quite poor to me (specially in gold) or is it just a feeling ?

Salut ;)

Normally, you just keep what treasure is actually in the adventure. I think there was a thread where James Jacobs actually said that this was a bit over the "estimated PC wealth" as described in the DM's guide.

I think it can vary from one campaign to the next. For example, in my campaign, I allowed the PC's to sell Large-sized items for 10% of the normal price (I guess for materials). So even though they couldn't use the giants' gear, they still got _something_ out of it.

Also, in the Skinsaw Murders, a large part of the wealth the PC's will gain is the several thousand gold pieces reward that the Lord-Mayor gives them at the end. If they somehow botch the mission and fail to get that, it will put them behind the curve, I guess.

Chewbacca,

To follow up on what Moonbeam said, the 'seeming' lack of treasure is not strictly your imagination. However, both the first two chapters *do* assume that the players are going to collect everything of value and sell it somehow. That includes things like masterwork dogslicers and the like.

I'll grant you, that sometimes seems counter-intuitive, especially with magic goblin leather armor, or tiny flying daggers.. but that is where the discrepancy is. In the case of small equipment, I figured if it's masterwork or magical, someone will be able to offload it in a large venue like Magnimar. If anything, whoever they sell it to in Magnimar will take it to some place where there will be a buyer for such things. Magnimar is an international shipping port.

In Skinsaw Murders, you also need to reconcile that some of the evil equipment also counts as treasure. James Jacobs has long since proposed that evil gear might have a bounty paid for them by good Churches, who'd like to keep such things off the black market.

Hope this helps!

Dark Archive

Bonjour Moonbeam and Watcher ;o),

OK Thanks again for the help. It's great to feel that "you are not alone " As Mister Jackson said (Not Steve no .... I was talking about Michaël.... :D)... Hum sorry ...
Anyway, we all enjoy every bit of this adventure (well I hope it's the same for my PCs ...).

My Pcs are now in the catacombs of Wrath in AP number 1 and are sure that Nualia is inside of it.... :D

Anyway. for the objects I'll let them decide if they want to sell that tiny dagger and master horseslicer and I will decide of the price....

Thanks a lot guys !!!

Grooaaar

Chewbacca.


Hi everyone!

Ok, this is what is happening:

My players are itching to investigate a) the Old Light and b) Chopper's Isle.

However, I did not read the full RotRL AP and I'm not sure if these places will be further developed. I skimmed those and found nothing, but I am sloppy sometimes. I would like to know if the Old Light is just an old, now-ruined war machine as is implied or if there are any rooms, secret entrances or stuff like this ?
What about Chopper's Isle ? Anything to it in the future ? I was thinking in creating a mini-adventure related to Jervas' hideout but I need to be sure that afterwards I won't have to retcon stuff or change the whole thing.


I believe that the old light has a greater part to play in later AP's though I gave my party permission to enter some of the ruins via a key that allowed limited access to some rooms below thus saving the remainder for the later AP.On the fly I had a couple of rooms that where being used by an Ethereal Filcher( MM pg87 3.0 or pg104 3.5 ) as its lair.
I'm still a 3.0 guy :)

As for Choppers Isle there is Deneks Campaign Journal that I used for inspiration I would recommend having a scan through all of the Journals they are a blast and a great source of ideas for those DM mental blocks we all get.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/campaignJournals/dene ksRiseOfTheRunelordsCampaign

Sczarni

Thiago Cardozo wrote:
However, I did not read the full RotRL AP and I'm not sure if these places will be further developed. I skimmed those and found nothing, but I am sloppy sometimes. I would like to know if the Old Light is just an old, now-ruined war machine as is implied or if there are any rooms, secret entrances or stuff like this ?

Old Light is detailed further in episode 4 I beleive... could be wrong, that adventure is the last part of the book I read and the part i remember the least.

Spoiler:
They find ruins under it that are uncovered during the stone giant attack i believe
Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yup, Old Light plays a role in PF4: Fortress of Stone Giants.


Thank you very much for the advice guys. Gotta love this community!


Question about Thistletop: If the tunnels through the thicket are only about 4 feet diameter, how do the goblins get Shadowmist, the horse, through the brambles and onto the island itself?

My players asked and I told them that the druid could have reshaped the tunnels but it doesn't seem like he'd want to do that every time the goblins brought in a new horse for Ripnugget to fight, or for Nualia to bring archaeology supplies in or for a cart with Father Tobyn's bones, etc.

When they bugged me enough about it, I gave the standard DM excuse: "A wizard did it."


I allowed the party to skirt round the edges of the thistles along the western edge till they reached the rope bridge.
Of course that meant them missing much of the fun on the way in, but on the way back that whole encounter was ready for them.
My players thoughts where sod that why should we be railroaded into the tunnels lets go round. So you could use that excuse medlii, have a look closely at the western map edge its clear of greenery till they reach the bridge.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

medlii g wrote:

Question about Thistletop: If the tunnels through the thicket are only about 4 feet diameter, how do the goblins get Shadowmist, the horse, through the brambles and onto the island itself?

My players asked and I told them that the druid could have reshaped the tunnels but it doesn't seem like he'd want to do that every time the goblins brought in a new horse for Ripnugget to fight, or for Nualia to bring archaeology supplies in or for a cart with Father Tobyn's bones, etc.

When they bugged me enough about it, I gave the standard DM excuse: "A wizard did it."

They made the horse squeeze through those narrow brambles. More to the point, the horse was unconscious and the goblins dragged it through the brambles and across the bridge and locked it up, and when it woke up the goblins realized that they probably shouldn't have had gone through all that trouble.

It wasn't easy for the goblins to pull this off, of course, and I suspect quite a few of them died on the perilous bridge crossing.


My solution to the Shadowmist problem was that the goblins used ropes to raise and lower a rowboat down the backside of Thistletop. There's a rowboat depicted on the map, and Tsuto and his goblins buddies used one to get to the smugglers entrance for their attack on the Glassworks. I figured the goblins used it as a way to get the bigger stuff up to their stockade.

In my game, they basically had Shadowmist lashed into the boat, then hauled up the back of Thisteltop.


James Jacobs wrote:

They made the horse squeeze through those narrow brambles. More to the point, the horse was unconscious and the goblins dragged it through the brambles and across the bridge and locked it up, and when it woke up the goblins realized that they probably shouldn't have had gone through all that trouble.

It wasn't easy for the goblins to pull this off, of course, and I suspect quite a few of them died on the perilous bridge crossing.

When I was a player in a RotRL game, this is roughly how my GM described it when we asked him about it... in some ways his description of how goblins operated reminded me of how ants move objects much larger than themselves. Crazy, murderous ants....

I'm somewhat disappointed that the players in my game never asked me this question tho...


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My characters are about to enter Thistletop in Chapter 4. I just ran the Glassworks chapter but actually came up with some doubts.

DOORS
Being myself a very visual person, I had some problems figuring out the dungeons beneath Sandpoint. First of all the corridors: I told the characters they were made of dark, highly polished stone, similar to marble, with no illumination. Ceilings were slighly arched 10 feet above them, one of the characters had high knowledge (Architecture) so I told her that kind of architectural style is not in use since ages. Most of the doors in the dungeons were made of similar stone, and rotate on a central axis (I really had trouble figuring how wooden doors that have been USED for 10 thousand years could look like, someone could scientifically tell me how wood could turn underground after such a long time?). Some of the doors I described as wooden, but blackened by ages, with planks swollen and moldy by countless years of dampness and erosion. None of the doors were locked, bearing only a sturdy, consumed rings in the center. The hinges almost turned to dust, and the doors barely could close (I assumed the sinspawn and vargouille and quasit left them open basically always). Would you agree? What if the characters wanted to close one of them doors, would they just be in complete decay?

THASSILONIAN SCRIPTS
Regarding the cathedral, it is stated that its walls are covered by runic writings. What do they look like? They narrate a story or are just meaningless scripts? Are they scattered around or neatly ordered in columns like writing on a chinese scroll?

THASSILONIAN LORE
Better yet, what does Brodert exactly know about Thassilon and what can he tell the PCs?
I don't understand why the PCs are not supposed to know anything about Thassilon, since there is a sage in town which has been studying Thassilonian for years (Brodert). They met the sihedron rune on the three doors of the deformed captives, so by the time AP 2 will start they will already know what it is, the rune depicting the seven virtues of rule. I also assume Brodert knows much about Thassilon, since he studied it for years - even if information is sparse, in 20 years passed in the great library of Magnimar he certainly read almost everything ever written on the subject. What if they bring him down to the dungeons and show him all the broken scripts and runic carvings on the cathedral? Will he also be able to make the DC 35 check and recognize Alaznist's statue? What would he know about her? Would he associate her with Wrath?
And most importantly, how did he figure out the old light's real purpose or blasting flames at enemies? When my character asked him why did he think the original purpose of the old light was of mass destruction, I made him say something along the lines of "see the runes, there? They mention - great lights above - but the same rune could be translated as both - light - and - fire-. So I translated it as - great fires from above - ". That said I still am much dubious on how much Brodert know about the runelords, besides being the advisors of Emperor Xin. And how much information could be squeezed from the catacombs.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, there are DCs of Knowledge checks for lore on one of the Runelords and a certain location related to Thassilon in PF4. Taking that, you can benchmark what DCs are required to have solid info. IIRC Brodent has some 4-5 levels, so I assume he has 5 ranks in Knowledges, +3 class skill, +2 stat (regular array etc.) so he's at +10 to check.

Also, he might be digging for info on Thassilon all the years, but most of the stuff he found was likley as realiable as an average pulp novel (Fabled Cities In The Sky ! Gorrila Giant Kings of Ancient Empires !). It's not until PF4 that the characters get to lay their hands on some solid source of information on what exactly Thassilon was.


And as a side note - I know D&D magic system is a bit "love it or hate it" and I personally like it, after all. But having the characters pick uf a Thassilonian scroll with a spell "burning hands" that is taught even today in every academy of magic in the know world didn't really ring well. I told the wizards that the spell evokes energy in a short range, but really, it doesnt make sense that it's IDENTICAL to the spell which is known 10.000 years later. I told them the school of magic is nothing they ever read or analyzed, but giving them a miserable "burning hands" scroll seems unjust and besides that, "un-flavorful" (pardom my english eh). I will probably have them

1) not understand how to cast it since the magic system is too alien
2) make it a variation of burning hands (better saves but more damage... something along that way)
Opinions?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:

And as a side note - I know D&D magic system is a bit "love it or hate it" and I personally like it, after all. But having the characters pick uf a Thassilonian scroll with a spell "burning hands" that is taught even today in every academy of magic in the know world didn't really ring well. I told the wizards that the spell evokes energy in a short range, but really, it doesnt make sense that it's IDENTICAL to the spell which is known 10.000 years later. I told them the school of magic is nothing they ever read or analyzed, but giving them a miserable "burning hands" scroll seems unjust and besides that, "un-flavorful" (pardom my english eh). I will probably have them

1) not understand how to cast it since the magic system is too alien
2) make it a variation of burning hands (better saves but more damage... something along that way)
Opinions?

I believe that magic predates Runelords. And classic spells, too. If you want to up the weirdness, you might swap the scroll for some splatbook spell or better yet, one from the Magic of Thassilon article.


Good take on the spells, but I definitely want to elaborate more.
Another doubt I had was regaridng Azlant, it's supposed to be even older than Thassilon, o i guess information on that empire is even sparser and broken?
Besides, did Shoanti and Varisian cultures already exist in old Thassilon? I'd assume so since Shoanti have those old stories about these warlords of legend...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Campaign Setting has a chapter on lost empires, this one should help you out. Also, do you have all the parts of RotRL ? The later parts have some great support articles on the matter.


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(sorry for the flood but every time i post new things spring to mind).
Slightly OT: Regarding spells, I never really have my players simply find a spellbook or a scroll with a list of spells in it. Every piece of magic always has the marks of the one who penned it, and there is always some personal note on magical research in every spellbook (most of which i grab from the Pages from the Mages articles :)). So I'll definitely brainstorm on those two burning hands scrolls.


Gorbacz wrote:
The Campaign Setting has a chapter on lost empires, this one should help you out. Also, do you have all the parts of RotRL ? The later parts have some great support articles on the matter.

Yes I do, although I don't have much time for reading lately and I was reading the modules one at a time cover to cover in detail just the week before the characters begin it. But I understand it's inevitale for me to at least browse though the rest of the AP and pick up info. My players are smart and I want to give them feeling, but not spoilers.

Thank you very much for the Campaign Setting info, I bought it last month (very cheap lot on ebay... opps!) together with a lot of other stuff.

It's really INCREDIBLE how every single release by Paizo is chocked full of quality ideas. I haven't read so much good stuff since the old days of Gygax, Sargent, Davis, Jacquays etc. Every module is as entartaining as reading a good novel. And I haven't been so full of ideas to exploit since the AD&D1E DMG!


Again, Stoot is said to be located in the isle north of Sandpoint. When he grows old the carpenters build a wooden stairway for him to reach sandpoint more easily. When he's found venerating a bird-demon (Pazuzu???) the stairway is bruned down, and the isle becomes inaccessible.
What i don0t understand is: how did Stoot reach Sandpoint BEFORE the stairawy is constructed and why all in a sudden the isle becomes inaccessible? Was he climbing up the cliff to his home every day?
Is Stoot isle reachable through the old light (it looks like there is a small bridge of earth between old light and chopper's isle)?
Maybe he used to get to sadpoint by boat? In that case did he climb down the isle every day to the beach below?

Sovereign Court

From the way I understand it, he requested permission to build a house on the isle, and the stairs were built in order to get the materials up to the top to build the house.

I also imagine that there is a land connection at low tide.

When they discovered the shrine in his "basement", the house was burned and the entrance to the underground level collapsed as well as destroying the stairs.


Twowlves wrote:


From the way I understand it, he requested permission to build a house on the isle, and the stairs were built in order to get the materials up to the top to build the house.

I also imagine that there is a land connection at low tide.

When they discovered the shrine in his "basement", the house was burned and the entrance to the underground level collapsed as well as destroying the stairs.

It's also not completely inaccessable, it only inaccessable to those without out really good climb skill and climbing equipment.


Delthos wrote:
Twowlves wrote:


From the way I understand it, he requested permission to build a house on the isle, and the stairs were built in order to get the materials up to the top to build the house.

I also imagine that there is a land connection at low tide.

When they discovered the shrine in his "basement", the house was burned and the entrance to the underground level collapsed as well as destroying the stairs.

It's also not completely inaccessable, it only inaccessable to those without out really good climb skill and climbing equipment.

But it seems like Soot was already living on the island. The carpenter just build the stair to make it easier to access it. It sounds so weird that he was CLIMBING to his home every day before the stair was built.

Sovereign Court

Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:
But it seems like Soot was already living on the island. The carpenter just build the stair to make it easier to access it. It sounds so weird that he was CLIMBING to his home every day before the stair was built.

My understanding was that when he voiced his desire to move to the island, they built the stairs, and after that, he moved there. Unless there's something in the book that explicitly says otherwise?


Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:
But it seems like Soot was already living on the island. The carpenter just build the stair to make it easier to access it. It sounds so weird that he was CLIMBING to his home every day before the stair was built.

Nope, having just reread the section, he made clear his intentions to build a home on the island as he "wanted to be with the birds". This desire made so much sense that the carpenters guild built the stairs so he could come and go from his new home with ease. He then lived on the island for 15 years before he started his killing spree.

Now it doesn't specifically say whether the house or the staircase were built first, but the stairs being built first is the only thing that makes any sense. It would be far to difficult to get any tools or supplies there, let alone climb up and down every day.

It seems to me he told everyone in town that he was going to build a home there. Once they heard, they said "Yeah that's makes sense. The weird bird carving man wants to live on the island of birds, lets build him a stairs so he can easily get up there." They built him the stairs and then he built his house. Then over the course of the next 15 years he got more and more reclusive and anti-social, producing fewer and fewer Stoots, until the demonic influence (which is probably what drew him to the island in the first place and gave him his ability to see the birds that needed setting free) caused him to snap. He then started his spree, which spiraled out of control, becoming bolder and bolder and less careful, until he was finaly caught.

This is really the only way it makes sense.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Correct. When Stoot decided to move to the island, the town built him stairs and probably even helped build his house. No one on Sandpoint knew there were chambers underground that Stoot was being called towards; the Pazuzu statue and the chambers under Stoot's house existed a long time before Sandpoint was settled.


Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:


...
DOORS
...
I really had trouble figuring how wooden doors that have been USED for 10 thousand years could look like, someone could scientifically tell me how wood could turn underground after such a long time?).
...

I described them as fosilised wooden door and used the same for other wooden structures. My players asked for the value of the material and I informed them (for personal understanding of that type material) that it was unusual but not worth more than good building stone types.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Although the concept isn't as front-and-center as it probably should have been, the reason the Thassilonian ruins are in such good condition after 10,000 years is that the runelords used a LOT of preservative magic to keep their creations looking good. They were arrogant (some more than others) and really wanted their legacy and mark on the world to last forever, and thus even erosion hasn't done as much as one might expect to these ancient edifices (and the doors inside of them). One of the underlying themes of Rise of the Runelords is that even as the runelords themselves are awakening, their structures are starting to FINALLY succumb to the passage of time. Thus, you have things like...

Spoiler:
... Skull's Crossing finally collapsing, or the Scribbler's tunnels caving in, or Runeforge starting to get back in contact with the rest of the world.

Doors and other wooden or similar objects being preserved for 10,000 years is child's play to a nation ruled by wizards capable of building something like Skull's Crossing that'll last for that long, after all.


James Jacobs wrote:

Although the concept isn't as front-and-center as it probably should have been, the reason the Thassilonian ruins are in such good condition after 10,000 years is that the runelords used a LOT of preservative magic to keep their creations looking good.

...

I always use that point to explain how stuff still looks good, works fine and can't realy be dated before you get acces to more proper info source... :)


Thank you this is what I was looking for!

Can I also assume the skull that the sinspawns are chewing at in the prison area is from some former thassilonian prisoner? Or maybe one of the smugglers that died 50 years ago while opening the passage (more probable, I don't think a thassilonian skull could have endured thousands of years of sinspawn plays - one thing is the zombies that clearly reside in a cold, preservative area, another is heaps of bones scattered at the mercy of monsters for thousands of years)?

@Slime - Sorry for being so nitpicking but can you describe the doors as you showed them in your adventure? Which kind of locking system, frame, hinges, materials etc?


Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:


DOORS
Being myself a very visual person, I had some problems figuring out the dungeons beneath Sandpoint.
<snip>
(I really had trouble figuring how wooden doors that have been USED for 10 thousand years could look like, someone could scientifically tell me how wood could turn underground after such a long time?).

IIRC the quasit knows Mending and could have been using it to help preserve things.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:

Thank you this is what I was looking for!

Can I also assume the skull that the sinspawns are chewing at in the prison area is from some former thassilonian prisoner? Or maybe one of the smugglers that died 50 years ago while opening the passage (more probable, I don't think a thassilonian skull could have endured thousands of years of sinspawn plays - one thing is the zombies that clearly reside in a cold, preservative area, another is heaps of bones scattered at the mercy of monsters for thousands of years)?

@Slime - Sorry for being so nitpicking but can you describe the doors as you showed them in your adventure? Which kind of locking system, frame, hinges, materials etc?

That skull is more likely one of the smugglers than a 10,000 year old skull.


Chewbacca wrote:


2. Ameiko discovered that Cyrdak had been having "improper" relations with her half-brother, Tsuto. Even though Tsuto is infatuated with Nualia currently, he could have been a vulnerable target for Cyrdak at some point.

This can be made even nastier if we consider that Cyrdak is much older than Tsuto... maybe his relation to Tsuto come from a time when Tsuto was 12 and he was 35-40...


Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:

... Slime - Sorry for being so nitpicking but can you describe the doors as you showed them in your adventure? Which kind of locking system, frame, hinges, materials etc?

I referred to wooden doors as made of the plant-life equivalent of fossilized bones making it a form of wood-shaped organic-mineral (I saw some at the museum but I can't remember the specific name). As for the other parts of the builds I referred to super-stable metal alloys and a minimal amount of parts for locks or hinges(I didn't have to answer specifics but I was imagining unusual stability threw low grade, no big money to be made, adamentium alloy) and proper minerals for frames or knobs (granite, some types of marbles or even some roman-like elder cements).


Slime wrote:
Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:

... Slime - Sorry for being so nitpicking but can you describe the doors as you showed them in your adventure? Which kind of locking system, frame, hinges, materials etc?

I referred to wooden doors as made of the plant-life equivalent of fossilized bones making it a form of wood-shaped organic-mineral (I saw some at the museum but I can't remember the specific name). As for the other parts of the builds I referred to super-stable metal alloys and a minimal amount of parts for locks or hinges(I didn't have to answer specifics but I was imagining unusual stability threw low grade, no big money to be made, adamantium alloy) and proper minerals for frames or knobs (granite, some types of marbles or even some roman-like elder cements).

Sounds silly but that's the kind of information that sometimes i fall short of. Knowing where the lock itself is set could make the difference. Is it built INSIDE the door like in modern house doors, with a steel bar that slides inside the wall when the handle is turned and just don't turn if the door is unlocked... or they have external locks. I made some googleing looking for medieval door systems, but I just didn't find anything clear. Some doors just had center knobs and a massive wood "plank" on the other side to close it manually. Some had just two metal loops set in the wall and the door that overlapped and could be closed with a lock similar to the one we use to lock our bicycles. But then some detailed info would really interest me, could be a nice brainstorming session.


I definitely didn't look long enough.
http://www.locks.ru/germ/informat/schlagehistory.htm
Plenty of work to do.


I figure the locks could be made at any level of technology and even much further or completely alien as part of the Runelords' building level/history. Just the "Mage Hand" cantrip's availability can make me dizzy as to what it could make possible in mechanical system building.

I assume your group has a disable device (trap finding) or know. engineering "expert" character. Mine has almost none of it significantly present so no specific questions for lock types.

But be careful if you have an expert PLAYER that offers solutions no character could figure, I'd give a bonus to a roll but no automatic resolution of problem. Unless their's no other way to keep the story going.
I actualy had that in another group where the druid was the one figuring the buildings, mechanics, etc. (without any appropriate non-class skill level) by asking me questions about the builds and me just answering in detail. We had a laught when I brought it up and started asking for a proper skill rolls before answering.


I just started DMing RotRL last weekend and like other DMs I came across the common problem of Erylium's fight being so difficult for a 3rd level party.

Right now I assume this is not due to any kind of error or typo.

I'm thinking about guiding my players through a tour around town in which they will know a lot of new NPCs a some of them will give them useful items to help them.

Is this the best way to do go with it?


Ortus wrote:

I just started DMing RotRL last weekend and like other DMs I came across the common problem of Erylium's fight being so difficult for a 3rd level party.

Right now I assume this is not due to any kind of error or typo.

I'm thinking about guiding my players through a tour around town in which they will know a lot of new NPCs a some of them will give them useful items to help them.

Is this the best way to do go with it?

One suggestion with Erylium... switch out one of her spells. I switched out her Shield of Faith with another spell so her AC was a little less impossible, but still very high for low level PC's.

Despite this she still gave them a real hard time (twice--they ran halfway through the first time then came back to face her again) and then after a long battle she escaped to appear again at the end of the adventure.


Little typo, my players where at level 2, not 3. I'm afraid that if they don't kill her they won't explore the rest of the dungeon and I didn't wnat to reailroad it on them.

How did you make your players see that they didn't have to kill her?


In my campaign the rogue pulled an amazing stunt with Erylium; he's a varisian and has a reinforced scarf.
Acrobatics check for a high jump, then he tried to wrap the scarf around her ankle. I let him try to trip the quasit out of the air with the scarf (she was visibile at the moment).

Natural 20. Quasit down, then all the party ganged up grappling the little b****, pinned her down (her CMD is 15) and finally the paladin impaled her on the ground (with smite evil)^__^

Lantern Lodge

I remember it being said that Erylium was designed as an encounter to try to get players to think outside the square and try unique approaches that they wouldn't normally have thought of. My campaign had her drive off the party the first time (evil cackle), but upon their return, the sorcerer used Gust of Wind, to pin her to the wall, and cause her spells to fizzle for several rounds ^_^. It's always awesome to hear different ways people dealt with her:D


From what I remember most physical attacks (arrows/bolts, etc) missed. Casters did him in, mostly by delaying their actions until Erylium attacked (i.e. when she was visible) then casting immediately, mostly magic missiles. We were 2nd level at the time iirc.

I should note that I normally give starting PCs some useful equipment. Arcane Casters get a partially charged wand of magic missile, healers get one of CLW, martial types get a masterwork weapon, archers get a composite bow (+1),etc. It allows healer types to use other spells more frequently early on to aid the party (like Bless), wizards to cast a few more spells, and the +1 to hit is a big help to the martial types early on. I usually incorporate the items as a heirloom/gift from a PC's mentor, temple, etc. prior to their meeting eachother for the actual campaign/adventure.

I did this because 3E/3.5 was particularly lethal at the beginning levels as the various obituary threads prove.

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