Burnt Offerings Clarifications (GM Reference)


Rise of the Runelords

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Paizo Employee Creative Director

Pegrenne wrote:

Hey, new to the forums with a questions about the AP. So my group are in the Catacombs of Wrath having JUST dispatched Erylium...level one and it was near thing. They are currently trying to deal with the runewell...but being human beings they've thrown me for a bit of a loop. They aren't doing anything described in the path. This shouldn't surprise me, but it does and that's why I am here.

Is the runewell considered an artifact? I ask this because they are trying to 'break' it by going at the stone around it with a pickaxe. Now by all rights this should work in breaking the structure if nothing else, but will it blow up in their faces or just just have the 'wrath water flow into the cracks? Another one is getting stones to fill up the thing. They are trying to make sure no one else uses it and I get that, but not expecting this I am trying to figure out how to take it. If they overflow the water will that stop it as well? I am inclined to say no because this well was made by a POWERFUL magic user like a million years ago (I know Thassillon wasn't quite that long ego but I like to embelish sometimes). I would think if it overflowed it would carry the magic with it, no?

So now that I have babbled on, can anyone help? I went over the thread and didn't find anything fitting my situation. If I missed it I'm sorry to ask an already posed question, but I am having some trouble and was hoping for a little guidance ^_^.

Should I have a backlash ready for them breaking the runewell? Could they even break it?

The minor runewell in the Catacombs of Wrath is indeed an artifact, as indicated on page 424 of the Hardcover; rules for its destruction and deactivation are given there as well. As for the PCs... when they're faced with something like this, my favorite method of handling it is to have them make some Spellcraft checks (or perhaps Knowledge arcana checks) and then give them hints on what to do based on how well they roll.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Geralt_Bialy_Wilk wrote:

Dunno if it has been already asked or not, but I've got two questions related to Catacombs of Wrath;

1. Among other things, my party found that black tome from 'zero-gravity' meditation chamber. My question is - in what language is it written? My party doesn't have many additional languages, so for now nobody could understand it. They gave it to Ilsoari for now (met him at Curious Goblin) for research. I'm not sure if he should get any information about this tome to the party, and above all - what should be written in that book (AP says only it's about Abyss...).

2. Should Father Zantus recognize the star symbol from the tome held by the red statue? If so, how much should he know about it or how much could he research in 2-3 days. As being a cleric, he could communicate with someone outside of Sandpoint for information really easily, right?

1) If you're talking about the book found in area B11, the prayer book to Lamashtu... that's written in Abyssal (see page 37). Abyssal being the language of demons.

2) Rules and advice on how the PCs can learn more about the seven pointed star symbol (the Sihedron) appear on page 75 of the book.


Thanks for help :) I really should get the hardcover and read it more carefully (prefer to read on paper rather than on screen) ^^"


Would Brodert Quink know how to dissipate a Runewell?

My characters are extremely cautious -- they weren't going to drip their own blood into the runewell, nor were they going to try to smash it. They cleared out the catacombs, and now they're off to get Brodert to help them study it.

Will he have any idea, or should I just have him say, "Your guess is as good as mine?"

Or have him be completely insane and drip his own blood into it?

I've got a good idea what I'd like to do, I just want to hear how other GMs have handled it.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My PCs never thought of dissipating the runewell, so I never had to deal with that particular question. However, when they did start asking Brodert questions, I just rolled Knowledges the first couple times and based what he knew off of those first couple of rolls. Turned out, he knew a lot about the old light and tidbits of Thassilon but knew nothing about its ties to sin.

I decided that the way he knew this, was a hallucinogenic tea he made that allowed him to glimpse phantoms of past, violent events. This allowed him to see the Hellfire plume at work in a battle between Alaznists and Karzougs forces.


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Jam412 wrote:

My PCs never thought of dissipating the runewell, so I never had to deal with that particular question. However, when they did start asking Brodert questions, I just rolled Knowledges the first couple times and based what he knew off of those first couple of rolls. Turned out, he knew a lot about the old light and tidbits of Thassilon but knew nothing about its ties to sin.

I decided that the way he knew this, was a hallucinogenic tea he made that allowed him to glimpse phantoms of past, violent events. This allowed him to see the Hellfire plume at work in a battle between Alaznists and Karzougs forces.

That's a great way to play it! I *LOVE* the tea -- I might steal it.

What kind of knowledge vs. what kind of DC did you use?

I'm thinking he's a 7th-level expert, so a Knowledge bonus of +16 or so (7 levels + 3 class skill + 3 INT bonus + Specialization feat).

Then DC 15 for common Thassilonian markings (sihedron), DC 20 for less common stuff (for example, the PCs have a DC 25 to recognize the runelord, and his should be lower since it's his specific field), 30 to recognize the runewell, and 35 to know how to dissipate it, 40 to know how to permanently destroy it.

Sound reasonable?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Glad you like it, feel free to steal away!! I played very fast and loose with Burnt Offerings and Skinsaw Murders, though it ended up taking us like a year and a half to get through just those two books. :-)

As far as specifics go, I really can't remember. I pretty much made it all up on the fly and this was about four or five years ago. We were actually using the Beta rules at the time. Those sound good though. If you end up with something uninteresting though (oops, he rolled a 2 and a 3, he doesn't know anything), don't be afraid to fudge it. Brodert is a lot of fun to use and a good source of info for the PCs early on in the AP.


Jam412 wrote:

Glad you like it, feel free to steal away!! I played very fast and loose with Burnt Offerings and Skinsaw Murders, though it ended up taking us like a year and a half to get through just those two books. :-)

As far as specifics go, I really can't remember. I pretty much made it all up on the fly and this was about four or five years ago. We were actually using the Beta rules at the time. Those sound good though. If you end up with something uninteresting though (oops, he rolled a 2 and a 3, he doesn't know anything), don't be afraid to fudge it. Brodert is a lot of fun to use and a good source of info for the PCs early on in the AP.

Our gnome pyromaniac sorcerer is already totally gaga over Brodert; that's why I have to plan out what he knows and what he doesn't. All Brodert ever gets from the gnome is, "Tell me more about the fire tower! How did you fire it? How often? How far? Where's the trigger?"

We'll see how it goes on Saturday...


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Very cool, you should tie that in, later in book five, when the face the Scribbler under Sandpoint. Maybe put a control panel type room in, in place of one of the Lamashtu shrines.

Are you playing the originals or the AE version?


The AE version. Considering all the threads on X (your TPK friend), and the massive amount of work I've put into backstory on 2 of the 4 characters, I'm just as happy to play the toned-down, "You can get away with killing only the 2 PCs without massive backstories" version...

Yeah, I'm really having a whole ton-o-fun with this campaign. I'm posting all the stuff in a thread, but unless you have lots of free time on your hands, it makes for some LOOOONG reading.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber
NobodysHome wrote:

I'm posting all the stuff in a thread, but unless you have lots of free time on your hands, it makes for some LOOOONG reading.

If you don't have the time, find it. You'll thank yourself later.

I'll be running RotRL(AE) for our local gaming group starting as soon as Pacificon is over, and I'm shamelessly mining the thread for ideas. When NobodysHome says he?'s put a massive amount of work into backstory, believe it. Our custom is to let the players come up with their own character concepts, so I'm not using any of that part. But that doesn't mean I'm not tempted ... But additional material to round out NPCs? I'll use that at the drop of a d20!


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JohnF wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

I'm posting all the stuff in a thread, but unless you have lots of free time on your hands, it makes for some LOOOONG reading.

If you don't have the time, find it. You'll thank yourself later.

I'll be running RotRL(AE) for our local gaming group starting as soon as Pacificon is over, and I'm shamelessly mining the thread for ideas. When NobodysHome says he?'s put a massive amount of work into backstory, believe it. Our custom is to let the players come up with their own character concepts, so I'm not using any of that part. But that doesn't mean I'm not tempted ... But additional material to round out NPCs? I'll use that at the drop of a d20!

Wow! That makes TWO people reading my thread! ;-)

Seriously, though -- both the drow paladin and the kitsune bard first sent me summaries of their backstories, so it was indeed the "players [coming] up with their character concepts." I just had two weeks to burn between receiving the concepts and first game, so I said, "OK, that was your character concept, now here's your backstory as it fits into the tale I'm telling."

To put it mildly, they were both extremely pleased with the results, and have deemed me worthy of filling in the blanks on their characters whenever necessary.

The gnome pyromancer? He tells his own tales, and I just let him edit my posts...


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RECOMMENDATION: Start this campaign in late Rova, as suggested in the AP.

Some people care about the Golarion calendar, and some don't. But my players just wrapped up the catacombs and spent a couple of days sealing the smuggler's tunnel, interacting with the NPCs, and bringing Brodert to explore the catacombs. While I love that my players are enjoying the world so much, they really do need to *DO* something. They've already declared Thistletop 'too tough for them to take' sight unseen, and are planning on just building the town's defenses to protect against the goblin menace until the sheriff returns with reinforcements. (Which, of course, he'll fail to do unless they do something. Some GMs are such jerks...)

All it took for me to get them out of their inaction was to say, "It's 29 Rova. Next month is Lamasht, month of Lamashtu..."

BOOM! They're off to Thistletop first thing next game, without my having to come up with any other motivations...

Thanks for naming a month after an evil goddess of monsters, Paizo!


Lmao, THAT is some serendipitous gaming. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I will also put in a vote for everyone to read NobodysHome's thread! I love how he told the player's stories and made it feel like a natural lead into their Sandpoint arrival.

My fiance is also very good at bringing backstories to life and adding to the adventure (just ask my poor Jade Regent character, she's so sad right now!). I have much to learn!


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CaroRose wrote:

I will also put in a vote for everyone to read NobodysHome's thread! I love how he told the player's stories and made it feel like a natural lead into their Sandpoint arrival.

My fiance is also very good at bringing backstories to life and adding to the adventure (just ask my poor Jade Regent character, she's so sad right now!). I have much to learn!

I think it's just a question of moving away from, "What do I want the characters to do next?", and instead, "What is going on in the world around my characters?" I had two great GMs show me how much better this worked, and I vowed to learn.

I also had a great deal of luxury here -- we have 10 regular gamers, so I hand-picked my 3 best and told them that this campaign was going to be about roleplaying, not killing things. There are so many subtle things about my players that I cannot express enough appreciation for. They were going to just sit in town, fortify the defenses, and wait for the goblin attack. (100% chance of TPK). All I had to do was say, "Oh, by the way, next month is Lamasht," and they instantly decided that faster action was necessary. I can introduce a throwaway NPC like Nictiana (a show-stealer in the thread), and she becomes a core character (she's back in tonight's post, which'll be up once the gnome approves what I wrote). I can take one of the canned NPCs in Sandpoint (Brodert Quink in tonight's post) and turn an interaction with him into a 2-3 hour session, because my players will roll with it.

Great players make great stories. As a GM, my job is to give them the environment, and give them the NPCs. About the only place I'm going to take credit is my NPCs -- I do get LOTS of compliments on my ability to play 3 different NPCs in character simultaneously, and carry on a conversation with myself while the players listen.

Oh, and they're willing to game any night I'm free, even though one of them lives 45 minutes away. THAT'S dedication to a game!

And making my kids the goblins. *shudder*. Bad, evil goblins!

As I said before, I didn't come up with the backgrounds (except for the gnome), they did. I just added details that I thought would help my story. I'm very grateful that so many people appreciate them so much. I do also like filling in all the little quirks of the NPCs and having other GMs say, "Ooh, that's cool! I'm going to grab that!" (I'm afraid I didn't get Brodert to drink hallucinogenic tea as suggested, but it never quite fit in.)

In short, it's the players that are making this an epic campaign. I'm just documenting it as it happens.

I have to admit, I could not have imagined the results. The 8-hour session where they killed 2 skeletons and a goblin is still their favorite. The 5-hour session where they did the dungeon crawl through the Catacombs of Wrath was their least favorite (except for the arrows. Ah, my party and bows... what can I say?).

It's a great ride. I'm glad some of you are coming along!


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I can't seem to find any mention of this in the AP: In room B6 of the catacombs of wrath, what does the dotted white semicircle represent? Also what is the circle on the square that's in the middle of that dotted semicircle supposed to be? And is that particular 5-foot square barred shut at the north end as it appears to be?


If I recall it right:

The semi-circle represents the northern edge of the cave leading past B1,B2,B3. The circle is a hole in the cave bottom (as well as a hole in the cell ceiling). The cell is barred shut.

Alternately, the cave might instead be beneath the cell, making the hole in the cell's floor and the cave's ceiling.

I don't remember which interpretation I went with when I ran it, but either should work.

Edit: I'll check if the Anniversary Edition clarifies this once I no longer have a cat on my lap :)

Edit2: Nope, no clarification there.

Liberty's Edge

I do believe the cell is BELOW the cave, assuming there is no significant slope to the catacombs. I base this on the fact that you would have to go down the stairs in B6 to get to the cells.


I'll try this here too:

Shouldn't the Goblin Warchanter be already proficient with the dogslicer?

Pick one reason:

a) It's an iconic goblin weapon, so goblins should be proficient
b) it's basically a shortsword and bards do have proficiency for it

-------------------

On a related topic.

Shouldn't the mounted comando rather use a dogslicer too?
I figure using a two-handed weapon such as a horsechopper (aka halberd) is rather difficult while mounted (except when using the spear tip only)...

-------------------

Third question:

The Sinspawn in Bestiary 2 are all equipped with a glaive (I think).
Do all Sinspawns in the "Catacombs of Wrath" also wear glaives?
What about the newly spawned in the fight against Erylium?

Liberty's Edge

The dogslicer (or horsechopper for that matter) are not listed as "goblin weapons". Additionally, goblins don't have any weapon familiarity in the way dwarves, gnomes, or orcs do, and therefore, must gain their weapon proficiencies through class.

Regarding the commando, his primary style of attack is with the bow. Beyond that, he's a goblin who feels that the horsechopper is a better weapon to fight with. The fact that you or I realize that this might be a hindrance is irrelevant. Also, this is a flavor issue, not a rules issue.

Sinspawn: no, these are your basic weaponless creatures that attack with their claws. (I think this is great because it differentiates the sinspawn encountered in chapter 5 who do fight with weapons).

Hope that helps!


Thanks for the clarifications HF!

But seriously: Dogslicers SHOULD be goblin weapons. And they SHOULD have them as an automatic proficiency.
I would restrict horsechoppers to the full martial classes (halberd equivalent etc.), but a goblin bard (aka warsinger) using a regular shortsword over a dogslicer because she doesn't have the proficiency doesn't make sense, fluff wise.

Anybody really think the opposite to be true?

I guess I'll simply post a new goblin over at the Homebrew section.
Wanted to do this for some time now.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I much prefer the idea that Goblins aren't proficient with the dog slicer, purely because they're Goblins. I would never, however, have a goblin using a shortsword instead of a dog slicer as it doesn't fit

Paizo Employee Creative Director

NobodysHome wrote:

Would Brodert Quink know how to dissipate a Runewell?

My characters are extremely cautious -- they weren't going to drip their own blood into the runewell, nor were they going to try to smash it. They cleared out the catacombs, and now they're off to get Brodert to help them study it.

Will he have any idea, or should I just have him say, "Your guess is as good as mine?"

Or have him be completely insane and drip his own blood into it?

I've got a good idea what I'd like to do, I just want to hear how other GMs have handled it.

If the PCs don't think of or figure out how to dissipate the minor runewell in the Catacombs of Wrath AND they really want to do that... Brodert Quink's role in the AP is PRECISELY for this situation. He's there to figure out the things the PCs don't, and to give you, the GM, the method by which to eventually inform the PCs what's going on after it becomes obvious they're incapable of figuring things out due to difficulties in Knowledge check DCs and the like.

Brodert is your safety cushion for backstory deliverance.


James Jacobs wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Would Brodert Quink know how to dissipate a Runewell?

My characters are extremely cautious -- they weren't going to drip their own blood into the runewell, nor were they going to try to smash it. They cleared out the catacombs, and now they're off to get Brodert to help them study it.

Will he have any idea, or should I just have him say, "Your guess is as good as mine?"

Or have him be completely insane and drip his own blood into it?

I've got a good idea what I'd like to do, I just want to hear how other GMs have handled it.

If the PCs don't think of or figure out how to dissipate the minor runewell in the Catacombs of Wrath AND they really want to do that... Brodert Quink's role in the AP is PRECISELY for this situation. He's there to figure out the things the PCs don't, and to give you, the GM, the method by which to eventually inform the PCs what's going on after it becomes obvious they're incapable of figuring things out due to difficulties in Knowledge check DCs and the like.

Brodert is your safety cushion for backstory deliverance.

Thank you, James. That's how I handled it on my thread, and I was immediately questioned by another poster as to the wisdom of revealing that much information.

I figure that the richer the backstory, the more invested in the current story the PCs will be. Good to hear I'm not insane!

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Would Brodert Quink know how to dissipate a Runewell?

My characters are extremely cautious -- they weren't going to drip their own blood into the runewell, nor were they going to try to smash it. They cleared out the catacombs, and now they're off to get Brodert to help them study it.

Will he have any idea, or should I just have him say, "Your guess is as good as mine?"

Or have him be completely insane and drip his own blood into it?

I've got a good idea what I'd like to do, I just want to hear how other GMs have handled it.

If the PCs don't think of or figure out how to dissipate the minor runewell in the Catacombs of Wrath AND they really want to do that... Brodert Quink's role in the AP is PRECISELY for this situation. He's there to figure out the things the PCs don't, and to give you, the GM, the method by which to eventually inform the PCs what's going on after it becomes obvious they're incapable of figuring things out due to difficulties in Knowledge check DCs and the like.

Brodert is your safety cushion for backstory deliverance.

And don't forget, the answer to this runewell is provided in Nualia's journal too!


I have yet to publish the anniversary edition, but I do have the original AP, so I was wondering, are the iconic characters (Valeros, Merisiel, Seoni, and Kyra) the same for the anniversary edition. It was a different experience to see the iconics have three females and one male, or is there a different set chosen because of the expansions since its original publication?

If yes, what are they?

Liberty's Edge

There are no iconics in the AE, but I guess it's assumed they are the same.


The pictures in the AE depicting scenes of the adventure show Valeros, Merisiel, Seoni and Kyra, so yes they appear to be the same group as before.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It's the same iconics, not least because a lot of the art is reused.


Michael F wrote:
So you wind up with a PC who has a Chaotic Evil girlfriend. And let's face it, in real life, we've all seen that before, right?

This quote is five years old, but still funny as hell!


In the tactics section (anniversary edition) is stated that Malfeshnekor will cast rage on the first round. The strange thing is that greater barghest does not have rage as spell-like ability
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/barghest.html#_barghest

maybe I missed something.


Bri74 wrote:

In the tactics section (anniversary edition) is stated that Malfeshnekor will cast rage on the first round. The strange thing is that greater barghest does not have rage as spell-like ability

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/barghest.html#_barghest

maybe I missed something.

You didn't, but apparently the editors did.

The 3.5 Barghest and Greater Barghest had rage as an "at will" SLA, but the Pathfinder versions don't. The tactics section was apparently not updated to reflect the change in the monster.

Liberty's Edge

Good catch. it would be worth it to mention it in the AE Errata thread.


HangarFlying wrote:
Good catch. it would be worth it to mention it in the AE Errata thread.

done


Hey everyone, I am about to start running RotRl AE and have some questions about how to handle knowledge checks throughout Burnt Offerings. I understand that Brodert Quink is there to serve as a fountain of knowledge, but I am unsure what he can tell the PCs.

I have no Pathfinder source books or campaign resources, so perhaps that is the source of my problems. I am just unsure what the PCs should know about Thassilonian stuff. Should any of the PCs be able to speak Tassilonian?

My main question comes up in the Catacombs of Wrath. When the party finds the statue in area B3 it says they can identify it as Runelord Alaznist. Which is all well and good, but how would they recognize this runelord? They would obviously have to have some other knowledge of who she was to be able to identify a statue of her on sight.

Can anyone help me out with this?


Thassilonian: Any given PC should only be able to speak Thassilonian if the put a rank in linguistics for it, took it as a 1st level bonus language for high intelligence, or took some other method of learning languages (such as a feat). By default, nobody is expected to start out with Thassilonian, but it is expected that at least one person in the party learns it as the adventure progresses.

Brodert Quink: Exactly what he can tell the PCs is left vague on most issues. This info isn't hidden in another book somewhere, it's simply been left up to you to decide. Brodert can tell the PCs as much or as little info as you want them to have.

Runelord Alaznist: If a PC succeeds on a knowledge check to recognize the statue, it means he or she knew of Alaznist before seeing the statue. I like to think of knowledge skills as book-learning, personally. If they succeed at a knowledge check to identify Alaznist it means they read it somewhere, or were told about her, and they remembered that knowledge.


Thanks for the answers. What kind of info should be given out about what a runelord actually is? I have only read through Burnt Offerings and don't know what to describe to my players.


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Runelords: The Runelords were a group of super-powerful wizards who each ruled one part of the ancient realm of Thassilon, which fell 10000 years ago. Each runelord was meant to embody one of the virtues of Thassilonian leadership, but all were corrupt and turned those virtues into what we know as the 7 deadly sins.

Sloth = Runelord Krune
Lust = Runelord Sorshen
Wrath = Runelord Alaznist
Pride = Runelord Xanderghul
Envy = Runelord Belimarius
Gluttony = Runelord Zutha
Greed = Runelord Karzoug

^ I'd say the above could all be reasonably available knowledge for PCs, the first paragraph especially being something Brodert could tell them. I'd personally require separate knowledge checks for the name of each individual runelord though, at least early in the adventure.


Thanks a ton Gluttony, that's some great info to give my players. I now have a second question regarding what the PCs would know. When they save Aldern and go on a boar hunt with him, should the players be given a knowledge local roll to find out some background or even some background on Foxglove manor? It seems logical that they would know this now, rather than having a revelation about Aldern in the Skinsaw murders. I fear it could spoil the mystery aspect of the second book though.

Any ideas?


Knowledge of Foxglove manor really risks spoiling the mystery of book 2. I'd say don't give it away this early, especially not at random. At this point I'd probably have Aldern talk as though his townhouse in Magnimar is his only home, and the players will have no reason to ask about the manor, as they won't yet know it exists.


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ofstatic wrote:

Thanks a ton Gluttony, that's some great info to give my players. I now have a second question regarding what the PCs would know. When they save Aldern and go on a boar hunt with him, should the players be given a knowledge local roll to find out some background or even some background on Foxglove manor? It seems logical that they would know this now, rather than having a revelation about Aldern in the Skinsaw murders. I fear it could spoil the mystery aspect of the second book though.

Any ideas?

With a successful Knowledge (nobility) check, I'd give them something like "The Foxglove family is a small, but wealthy family from Magnimar" at DC 10 and "Aldern Foxglove and his wife Iesha are the family's only living members" at DC 15.

With Knowledge (geography) I'd give "Foxglove Manor has been abandoned for years, but is located along the coast about halfway between Sandpoint and Magnimar" at DC 10 and "Locals call Foxglove Manor 'the Misgivings' due to several family members' untimely deaths" at DC 15.

With Knowledge (local) I'd give "Aldern Foxglove is a wealthy nobleman from Magnimar, said to be something of a fop" at DC 10 and "It's rumored that the Foxglove family has been cursed with ill fortune" at DC 15.

It all depends on your players, of course, but you should be okay if you focus on Aldern as a victim in the Knowledge results (which he is, if you check his backstory in Skinsaw Murders). Most players, in my experience, will assume it's either a bit of throw-away flavor or that they'll eventually have a chance to lift the curse... which they will, albeit not in the way they'd expect.

Edit: Gluttony might very easily be right here. I do tend towards giving people hints and foreshadowing whenever possible.

Cheers!
Landon


I'm going to pipe up and semi-agree with Gluttony; if the characters learn that Foxglove Manor is called "The Misgivings" in Book 1, you're toast. On the other hand, without that connection, everything else you tell them about the manor is groovy foreshadowing.

I just LOVED my party's look of absolute astonishment when they realized that I was using "Misgivings" as a proper noun, went back to Sandpoint, and found out that was the local name for Foxglove Manor. It was such a bombshell that I ended the session on that note.

So, "OK on the knowledge:local to learn its history, NO they can't go there, and NO they may never, ever, EVER know that it's called the Misgivings until they specifically ask that question."


Once again thanks for all the help guys. I have started reading the Skinsaw Murders and believe I have one last question. While it's not really pertinent to Burnt Offerings, it does relate to what NobodysHome said. I noticed that on page 81 of the Anniversary Edition that the party will recognize Misgivings as a reference to Foxglove Manor. The check is only DC 15. This almost makes me think that this is information they could find out before the Skinsaw Murders even begin.

Any advice on how to further handle this bit of information?


ofstatic wrote:

Once again thanks for all the help guys. I have started reading the Skinsaw Murders and believe I have one last question. While it's not really pertinent to Burnt Offerings, it does relate to what NobodysHome said. I noticed that on page 81 of the Anniversary Edition that the party will recognize Misgivings as a reference to Foxglove Manor. The check is only DC 15. This almost makes me think that this is information they could find out before the Skinsaw Murders even begin.

Any advice on how to further handle this bit of information?

I took the ruthlessly cheesy, "You didn't ask, so I didn't tell," approach.

To my utter amazement, my players were OK with it.

Shadow Lodge

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NobodysHome wrote:
ofstatic wrote:
Any advice on how to further handle this bit of information?

I took the ruthlessly cheesy, "You didn't ask, so I didn't tell," approach.

To my utter amazement, my players were OK with it.

I've got a problem in that one of the PCs is a Sandpoint native.

We did our preliminary session last Sunday, and may well kick things off properly this coming Sunday. The big uncertainty is whether we're going to be able to find/coerce a second GM; we've got enough players for two tables, so I'd like to do that if at all possible.

Edit: Fixed quoting


I am in the same boat as you, but I have at least 3 Sandpoint natives. That's why I have been so concerned about all this knowledge stuff and what they would already know by virtue of living in Sandpoint.

On a different note I have seen a lot of encouragement of using Brodert Quink as the source of much knowledge for the PCs, but how early would you introduce his character? In Skinsaw it requires a Knowledge (local) check to even realize he is a scholar of ancient history. Should I wait until Skinsaw for the PCs to begin enlisting his aid and gaining info they may have missed in Burnt Offerings, rather than having them know he is in town from the start?


Bugger the DC's. They are a guidline. Use what makes the best story. If them knowing all the info about Quint, and the Thassilonian stuff, would spoil the mystery and surprise, and they have ungodly skills/ rolls, fudge them. :)

JohnF, I actually had a similar thing, and ran two GM's under me, rather than one beside me. Two groups of six. I actually chose to run a PF version of Life's Bazaar, set under Sandpoint. So while one group was dealing with invading goblins, and stolen priest's bodies, exploring the Catacomb's of Greed (I changed it) and Thistletop, the other group was exploring under the theater in city ruins from Alaznist's empire (Jzaridun), and breaking up the slave ring set up by Xanesha, through her cohort Kazmojen. A few minor changes on both sides, but it ended up pointing both in the same direction later in Skinsaw...Magnimar, and this cult that was marking and killing people. Anyway, just my two coppers...

Shadow Lodge

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mittean wrote:
Bugger the DC's. They are a guidline. Use what makes the best story. If them knowing all the info about Quint, and the Thassilonian stuff, would spoil the mystery and surprise, and they have ungodly skills/ rolls, fudge them. :)

I absolutely agree. I'm lucky inasmuch as my Sandpoint native PC is a gnome (one of the dozen or so in town, I believe), so I can always claim she doesn't know all the little details about humans. Rolls are there for colour and flavour, not to determine major plot points.

mittean wrote:
JohnF, I actually had a similar thing, and ran two GM's under me, rather than one beside me. Two groups of six. I actually chose to run a PF version of Life's Bazaar, set under Sandpoint. So while one group was dealing with invading goblins, and stolen priest's bodies, exploring the Catacomb's of Greed (I changed it) and Thistletop, the other group was exploring under the theater in city ruins from Alaznist's empire (Jzaridun), and breaking up the slave ring set up by Xanesha, through her cohort Kazmojen. A few minor changes on both sides, but it ended up pointing both in the same direction later in Skinsaw...Magnimar, and this cult that was marking and killing people. Anyway, just my two coppers...

Our situation is actually a bit more complicated than I've spelled out before. We currently run our tabletop game in a FLGS. A year ago the group was down to one GM and two players, and was in perpetual danger of vanishing - every time we thought we had found another player they disappeared again after a couple of weeks. Since then we've managed to grow steadily, and now have at least eight or nine players who show up consistently. Our current GM, who valiantly stepped up when the people who had been running the game dropped out, would like a chance to play something, so I offered to run a different campaign on alternate weeks. At the time we had four or five players, so that looked fairly simple. (I had initially intended to run Skulls & Shackles, but as soon as I got my hands on a copy of RotRL I changed my mind!).

As new people kept showing up, though, things got more complicated. The APs are designed for four players. While you can expand up to a party size of six without too much difficulty, it rapidly gets harder if the party grows above that. We've now got enough players to make splitting the group seem a good idea (and, as of five minutes ago, two of the players prepared to step up to running a game).

Our current plans now seem to be


  • Start two new four/five player tables of RotRL this weekend
  • Keep running the existing (Jade Regent) campaign on alternate weeks, but cut back to a smaller group of players.
  • Start up a second table of Jade Regent in parallel, but take it all the way back to the beginning. Most of the players joined us in the latter chapters of the second part (which we've just finished); there are only the original two of us who've run anything from the first part.


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