So Avner is quite the interesting character, I figure most of us have had some fun with his antics. My group took a rather immediate dislike to him. Post what your group has either done to him or what kind of trouble he has caused.
When he showed up late at the docks insisting his horse and servants come along my PC's told him to come aboard so they could discuss it. Soon as he stepped on deck they pulled up the gangplank and set sail. He was allowed a private cabin though as no one wanted to share a room with him.
When he tried to buy an Olman female at the village of Renkrue the sorcerer/favored soul decked him. Zellimere (the sorcerer/favored soul) had been throwing a kegger on the beach and so was a good way towards drunk. He took great offense with Avner and in his inebriated state had no problem with laying him out. This of course pleased the village chief.
our party druid convinced Avner to let him take care of Thunderstrike.
In thier momnets alone the druid used speak with anamals and summon monster (he summoned a mare........) to turn thunderstrike against Avner. The conversations were funny. Ever roleplayed a horse?
Also the party swashbuckler shot his had crossbow at the table infront of Avner during the feast on the nixie -- and rolled a natural 1. I ruled that the bolt pinned avners hand to the table! Lavina was pissed.
This is a little lame, but that's Avner: One of my PC's is a paladin, part of an order called the Swords of Justice. Usually addressed as "Sword" or "Sir Sword". In the very first encounter with Avner, the PC tried to jump out of a fishing boat, failed a balance check, and fell into the fish guts. Avner refers to that PC as "Sword Fish, get it? Swordfish!".
Avner think's it is very funny.
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After being shipwrecked on the Isle of Dread, we told Avner in no uncertain terms that if he so much as breathed wrong, we would murder him.
The next day, we are setting up camp and the bastard steals some food and heads back to the beach where we washed ashore. The barbarian (whose brother [another PC] had been killed a day before by the T-Rex) raged, charged, and cut the idiotic nobleman down.
What? It was a whole lot of fun for us.
-JLA
That's part of the Avner challenge: He's an annoying git but you can't make him so annoying that the PCs just off-him. Fortunately for me, I've got a pair of paladins of the god of nobility. I can make him as annoying as I like, they still gotta protect him. :)
Avner did not make it all that far... Heavy womanizing and a tightly run ship don't mix all that well, and the captain ( a warblade) told Avner in no uncertain terms about the possible and mandatory punishments - and hence his expected conduct... He may even have slighted Avner's honour and manhood some.... Avner "blew" up, picked some choice words ( There was a nubile female beguiler suggesting to him that his manhood and self-respect"required as much" - this certainly did not help =) )
.... and was asked out by the captain for "grass before breakfast"... as an honourable way to resolve the matter, instead of being treated as a common mutineer..... something Avner could not very well decline and keep his honour.
Too bad that the warblade overestimated (?) his capabilities and showed Avner the interesting effects and superior technique involved in an "Insightful Strike" - which instantly dropped Meravanchy junior to -12 HP with first blood spilled.
Certainly was fun for the players...
So when the PCs reach Farshore and Manthalay learns that his nephew was murdered by the PCs, how is that going to play out?
My players failed to stop the tide at Farshore and one of the very few survivors was Avner. That's when they knew beyond all doubt this was a horror campaign.
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using one of the ones here, Avner found Rowyn petting his horse, she seduced him, and convinced him the PCs were evil and planning to take over Farshore, and started teaching him about crime. later in the trip one of the PCs found Rowyn with the horse, and an hour later the PC's body was found floating on the side of the boat. This was especially dangerous, because it coincided with the jelly attack.. so as the pcs (and the body) were getting stuck in the jelly, Rowyn came up behind and started sneak attacking them. Now Avner has survived to Farshore, and is recruiting townsmen to become Lotus' and trying to undermine the PCs work, thinking that the crimson fleet is the better of the two alternatives.
For one, Avner's uncle is (by the original adventure description ) none too enthusiastic about getting to "babysit" his nephew. No love lost seems to be the term...
Second, looking at SWW and HtbM, there is a plethora of situations where Avner might reasonably die, simply by having the PCs fuming about him, and _not_ immediately coming to his aid if he is in danger. I guess, with his prescribed antics, everybody else will have a far higher priority on their "save them" list.... He has a measly 11 HP - and the PCs don't know that either.
Anyway, there has to be someone to "rat" on the PCs, even if they murder him outright ?
And besides, what is uncle Meravanchy to say if his stupid nephew actually got himself into a duel (with dozens of witnesses - our group really took pains to save as many of the passengers and crew and escort them across the isle. Incidentally, this created a hard core of supporters for them later on in Farshore by doing so, too ) which was more than he could swallow ?
Avner could have refused or chickened out - or leave the women alone in the first place... we are talking the guy trying to "purchase" a fiancee from the island of Renkrue here....
My players failed to stop the tide at Farshore and one of the very few survivors was Avner. That's when they knew beyond all doubt this was a horror campaign.
~LAUGHTER~
Avner was a great antagonist in my campaign as well. The group took an instant disliking towards him, and eventually his uncle too when he won the Farshore election. Hehe. They were also rather dismayed that they both survived the Farshore attack, including the dance of ruin that wiped out a small portion of the colony.
The most memorable moment with Avner was when they reached the sabotaged lift on their way to Farshore. The warforged artificer inspected it and found no faults in its construction. The monk didn't trust Artifice and scaled the cliff himself. The group decided to use the monk's rope to haul themselves up, leaving one member behind to get Thunderstrike up the cliff. The horse stepped onto the lift and crack, bang, splat, became instant glue on the rocks below. Avner still blames Artifice for his horse's death, and has not forgiven him ever since.
His first stab at the PC's popularity was getting his uncle elected mayor of Farshore. Now he plots against them still while they explore the lightless depths.
Ultimately, I thinking of having him sneak into their quarters at night to steal the shadow pearl they took from Vanthus.
We got to the island in Sea Wyvern's Wake where you resupply with some Olmans, and Avner tries to buy the chief's daughter...
One of my PCs, who was a TWF ranger/barbarian Olman (former slave, bought by Lavinia and freed) instantly raged and dropped Avner in one Two-Weapon Pounce to -9 hp, where he (luckily) stabilized.
Conrad Horst (who our Heironeous knight/cleric had saved, pardoned, and converted) decided to set up a missionary church on the island and keep Avner to restore him to health. And promised not to tell Avner why he had a couple of Shimalo'Koa scars down his back and chopped collarbones. While the Sea Wyvern sailed quietly and peacefully the next morning.
The PCs haven't been back to Sasserine yet, but I figure they'll have a proper 21-gun salute if that happens, pointed more or less in the direction of the Sea Wyvern...
My players finally got feed up with Avner. "Sword Fish", the paladin, talked Tavey into cutting off Thunderstrike's tail and putting it in Avner's bed. Avner of course went ballistic. The party druid casts talk to animals, finds out who did it, and Avner insists the boy receive five lashes for the crime. The paladin, sliding to evil, is going to administer the lashes himself. Amelia steps in at the last moment and takes the lashes herself.
Does Avner have any redeeming qualities? I'm just wondering if I should create some sympathy for him. My party will heartily cheer once he finally dies. Maybe that's his role. I guess there's plenty of other NPCs they'll be sad to see go.
Does Avner have any redeeming qualities? I'm just wondering if I should create some sympathy for him. My party will heartily cheer once he finally dies. Maybe that's his role. I guess there's plenty of other NPCs they'll be sad to see go.
I guess in the end its up to you whether or not he can demonstrate any redeeming qualities. His alignment doesn't preclude this, and interesting things can happen when faced with life and death situations. Being noble born of a fairly powerful house, he's used to getting his way (at least out among his 'lessers') and has likely spent his life ordering servants around (and watching others do the same). I think the party's reactions should play a part as well, having patience, using their actions to teach, etc. If the party desires to take the time to try for redeeming him, perhaps at least give him a chance.
My party is frustrating me by appeasing Avner at every turn. Not only did he get a cabin, the prettier female PC had a fling with him (she is a druid and left him a bit overwhelemed about the entire fertility aspect), they have generally followed his advice and then avoided blaming hom for the consequences. Of course, they are not as blithely unaware as this suggests, they scout and plan ahead, but then often find that they want to do as Avner says anyway.
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My party is frustrating me by appeasing Avner at every turn. Not only did he get a cabin, the prettier female PC had a fling with him (she is a druid and left him a bit overwhelemed about the entire fertility aspect), they have generally followed his advice and then avoided blaming hom for the consequences. Of course, they are not as blithely unaware as this suggests, they scout and plan ahead, but then often find that they want to do as Avner says anyway.
That was when I started making his demands worse and worse... they saw the Wyvrens flying overhead and he decided that he wanted to start a collection of rare animals slain on this trip, and wyvren seemed a good animal to start it, demending use of the ships salt barrels so that he could preserve the body until getting to Farshore and a taxidermist. As soon as the party heard taxidermist they were against the plan. Of course Urol loved this Idea so he could document the rare species. Later, they woke up on the shoreline to find a T-rex a little further up the beach feasting on the slain species Avner had collected (basically anything alive from the ruins, which Avner made the PCs carry the carcases to the boat, so as not to get blood on his horse.) Avner charged the Dino to save his new hobby.. the only reason he's still alive is he was smart enough to offer gold for every speciman saved from the beast.
ouch !
Perhaps for those groups that have managed to "off" Avner in some way it could be interesting if his soul found them once again in the Abyss.
Perhaps for those groups that have managed to "off" Avner in some way it could be interesting if his soul found them once again in the Abyss.
Why should it, he is "LN" , at least officially ? No real reason why he should end up in the Abyss, unless he gets a major rewrite - and going CE, just gives players a reason to "off"him at first opportunity.
Personally I consider him CO ----> Cowardly opportunistic
No there isn't any reason for him to end up there. However a vengeful soul might just find a way. Besides just think about the hilarity of popping Avner in on your PC's as they are about to assault Wat Dagon or something.
I love Avner; he may be one of the best NPCs I've ever seen. He's rude, demanding, conceited, and the responsibility of the PCs to keep alive! (At least, as far as his "delivery" to Farshore could be concerned.)
But where this awful scoundrel really shines is that he provides a role-playing outlet for social characters to bully him around. Handling him can be tricky, as depending on the aggressiveness of your players, they might just decide he's not worth his life, and cut him free. However, it does allow for characters who have put ranks into social skills (Diplomacy, or especially in my group, Intimidate) to make good use of these skills outside of the battlefield.
I can't recall how many times my players wanted to strand/kill him, but instead satisfied themselves with belittling and cowing him, instead. What I like about this is that Avner is--as far as his survival is concerned--really at the mercy of the responsible PCs, and thus presents the rare opportunity for the PCs to not feel like they have to kowtow to some powerful NPC, which is especially refreshing at low-level play.
Hat's off to whomever came up with this motley crew of shipmates for Sea Wyvern's Wake (Mr. Pett, I presume), and I'm looking forward to their further jungle misadventures in HTBM, where I am in the midst of running said adventure.
EDIT: Forgot to mention my favorite "Avner Moment". After Avner had sufficiently insulted the chief of Renkrue's daughter, the party, whom had otherwise been invited to a feast in their honor, were being given the cold shoulder. One of the players went back on to the ship (while the others tried to convince an apology out of Avner), and stole his belongings, including almost 1500 gold worth of possessions. That character then brought said goods to the chief, as a "token of Avner's embarrassment for having insulted the young lady." The chief accepted the gift, and the sound of the shocked Avner's jaw hitting the tribal gathering hall's floor could be heard by all.
My favorite Avner Moment(tm): When Rowyn dropped a yardarm on the party's sorceress (with invisibility and disguise self, the latter as Avner), it was only a matter of time before she was found. The party eventually tracked her down to the storage deck, where she attacked as Avner; with two excellent bow shots and a scorching ray, they dropped her. The monk, tasked by Zebula Meravanchi with looking after his son, ran up to Avner's bunk to secure his belongings, finding ... Avner, drinking a bottle of wine. When the monk recovered his wits, he ordered Avner down to storage ("to protect you from the assassins on the top deck!"); Avner, seeing himself unconscious and bleeding on the floor, gaped and sputtered and finally stammered out "why did you kill me?".
So after chastising the rest of you for letting Avner be murdered, here's what my cretins...er, players... ended up doing:
The party is on the beach after the shipwreck. Avner storms across the beach yelling at the captain that "this is all your fault". He continues his standard string of insults culminating in "you're working for the <evil sea goddess> trying to kill us all!". That sets off the cleric of the good sea goddess who summons a water elemental and proceeds to beat Avner. Warning Avner to drop his sword or else, Avner refuses, water elemental kills Avner.
My two paladin PCs, sworn to protect Avner, turn on their fellow player the cleric. They warned the cleric during the water elemental attack but he wouldn't relent. We ended the session with Avner murdered for insulting Amelia and two of my players attempting to kill a third. ::sigh::
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Perhaps for those groups that have managed to "off" Avner in some way it could be interesting if his soul found them once again in the Abyss.Why should it, he is "LN" , at least officially ? No real reason why he should end up in the Abyss, unless he gets a major rewrite - and going CE, just gives players a reason to "off"him at first opportunity.
Personally I consider him CO ----> Cowardly opportunistic
Yep. His behaviour, even as described in his stat block (without the glorious embellishments detailed on this site) sure isn't LN. LN plays by the rules no matter who gets hurt. Avner makes up the rules to ensure anyone but he gets hurt. I'm calling him Neutral with evil tendencies.
But I like "CO", too!
Perhaps for those groups that have managed to "off" Avner in some way it could be interesting if his soul found them once again in the Abyss.Why should it, he is "LN" , at least officially ? No real reason why he should end up in the Abyss, unless he gets a major rewrite - and going CE, just gives players a reason to "off"him at first opportunity.
Personally I consider him CO ----> Cowardly opportunistic
Yep. His behaviour, even as described in his stat block (without the glorious embellishments detailed on this site) sure isn't LN. LN plays by the rules no matter who gets hurt. Avner makes up the rules to ensure anyone but he gets hurt. I'm calling him Neutral with evil tendencies.
But I like "CO", too!
Avner is indeed quite Lawful.
His attitude does not stem from selfishness or capriciousness, he does not operate on whim or chaos. He believes firmly in his superiority due to his aristocratic breeding and family station in Sasserine. And with that breeding comes certain expectations. He feels it is his eminent right to treat his lessers as just that in the same manner he treats his servants and his horse. There is no difference to Avner between the PCs and his servants; he is at a loss at their disobedience when he gives them instruction or they rail against him in spite of his station. His playboy conquests are also based on this hubris, how could any woman resist the charms of such breeding. Lavinia is also a potential prize for Avner, his family power and control over the Vanderboren potenial fortune.
So, Lawful it is.
Now, I will concede the evil tendancies part.
Cheers!
As soon as I introduced Avner, his servants Jay and Bob (bob doesn't talk much), and his horse thumderstrike, the PCs disliked him. That evening the party was eating dinner with Captain Amelia, when Avner stormed in demanding better accomedation. Captain Amelia told him to buzz off and slammed the door in his face. That was the end of that.
So he won't be a total dweep, Avner will participate in the battle against the scarlet brotherhood pirates. I'm playing him as a LN noble. A decadent Mariavanchi noble, but still a noble ( I like complicated characters). I don't expect him to shine in the battle. But show that he is willing to swing his MW sword when the time is right. Hopefullyhe will be in a position to help a PC (perferably a female PC), that way, despite a dweeb, at least one PC owes him.
At least that is how I hope it plays out.
Well Avner is still going strong in my campaign. Currently the party is about 2/3 of the way through HTBM and he has been rather subdued with all the combat. Currently most of the party is trying to figure out how they can "let him die" and still maintain their alignments as they travel along the cliff side path.