The 8th Pagan is a doppleganger!
Of course I am. Who do you think the other 7 Pagans are?
Now, my understanding of 4E is that they are trying to simplfy stuff!
Have you read the 'What can a dragon do in 1 round' post at Wizards?
(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070822a)
There are two free actions, a standard action (2 claw attacks), a special ability that gives another standard action(breath weapon), a move action and then an immediate action it can't take.
And then later the cleric hits with a halberd, causes a critial and gets a little bonus that heals the wizard!
That is supposed to be simpler?
You say that like baseless, idle speculation is a bad thing.
Yeah? Well…you are the delusional one! I took my meds…I think…I can not really remember. (wandering off to find his medication)
Wow, and only in three systems.
Thanks Patricio for your response and thank you for reading my entire post. It's rather cumbersome and I didn't have much time to clean it up.
I have read your post and I fully agree with your committment to the D20 rules system and the dedication to imagination that drives the game. The D20 rules set allowed the felixibility to build all types of characters and NPC's for all types of situations and settings. It also allowed player's to quickly move from one genre to another with a foundation set in a standard rule set. 4.0 will certainly lack this.
You are also correct in your reasoning behind the motivation for a release to 4.0. It is money. I also believe a bit of ego is mixed in with this as well. I believe the latest set of designers at WOTC want to put their own stamp on the game and show that they can see their names in lights up there with Gygaz, Cook, Arneson, and Mona. The sad thing is that they cheated. They clearly took the 4.0 rules set from MMPORG. By doing this they have removed the fleixbility that we enjoyed to build fantasy settings and ordered it so that all things are unique. Elves can do X, Dwarves can do Y, Halfings can do Z, and gnomes are useless so they can kiss their butts goodbye. Some people will like this systme, but the old guys like myself and you will stick with what works to build felxible, fun, imaginitive settings for our games.
I have already gathered a number of like minded individuals for a home campaign that we will start at the conclusion of the Living Greyhawk campaign. When I originally presented the idea to my colleagues they were hesitant as they wanted to see what 4.0 would look like. As news came out (see the blurbs on the new D&D site on combat with a dragon and classes revisitied and you'll see what I am talking about) they realised why they played D&D and not WOW or any other online game. They are also happy about not having to spend any more money on rule books. I'm starting to think that the best thing that WOTC has done in the last couple of years was to stop 3.5 support. It means an end to adding rules and testing new ones for the sake of 4.0 development.
The naysayers out there will attack you every chance they get. They will say "4.0 hasn't even been released yet" or "all games come to an end." Like the grasshopper who didn't prepare for the coming winter, they will find themselves out it the cold. When they cast away their gaming group for the cold light of a PC monitor they will find that the gaming site is down. When a bug in the system removed all their magic items in the last upgrade, they will find customer support busy. When the site finally shuts down because the cost of running 4.0 vs. returning to the proven rules set occurs to WOTC (or whoever has the license by then), that person too will post on a messageboard and shout "Why?" Noone will be there to hear because while the 4.0 players were online, the 3.5 players brought together their friends and family and played the game the way they wanted to and the way it was supposed to be played. They won't feel like they betrayed because they didn't spend a ton of money to play and promote the game so that a company could fill its coffers. They used their imaginations and ran with it.
Patricio, I wish you the best in your new found freedom from WOTC and I am sure your home campaign will bring you great joy. Part of the fun in running a campaign is building it with or withour online tools. I think of 4.0 as an opportunity to return to the roots of the game we enjoy and will keep playing it to preserve what is so great about the game. As the saying goes "this too will pass."
Thanks Patricio for your response and thank you for reading my entire post. It's rather cumbersome and I didn't have much time to clean it up.
I have read your post and I fully agree with your committment to the D20 rules system and the dedication to imagination that drives the game. The D20 rules set allowed the felixibility to build all types of characters and NPC's for all types of situations and settings. It also allowed player's to quickly move from one genre to another with a foundation set in a standard rule set. 4.0 will certainly lack this.
You are also correct in your reasoning behind the motivation for a release to 4.0. It is money. I also believe a bit of ego is mixed in with this as well. I believe the latest set of designers at WOTC want to put their own stamp on the game and show that they can see their names in lights up there with Gygaz, Cook, Arneson, and Mona. The sad thing is that they cheated. They clearly took the 4.0 rules set from MMPORG. By doing this they have removed the fleixbility that we enjoyed to build fantasy settings and ordered it so that all things are unique. Elves can do X, Dwarves can do Y, Halfings can do Z, and gnomes are useless so they can kiss their butts goodbye. Some people will like this systme, but the old guys like myself and you will stick with what works to build felxible, fun, imaginitive settings for our games.
I have already gathered a number of like minded individuals for a home campaign that we will start at the conclusion of the Living Greyhawk campaign. When I originally presented the idea to my colleagues they were hesitant as they wanted to see what 4.0 would look like. As news came out (see the blurbs on the new D&D site on combat with a dragon and classes revisitied and you'll see what I am talking about) they realised why they played D&D and not WOW or any other online game. They are also happy about not having to spend any more money on rule books. I'm starting to think that the best thing that WOTC has done in the last...
You do know they don't give out Emmys for message board posts, right? Still, its an amazing amount of drama for just using the written word.
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They clearly took the 4.0 rules set from MMPORG. By doing this they have removed the fleixbility that we enjoyed to build fantasy settings and ordered it so that all things are unique.
Gygaz? Who's he then?
You must have an advance copy of the complete rules that I am not privy to.
Last I heard, they were trying to make the different races stand out a bit more from each other. Somehow you equate that to being more restrictive than it currently is.
I can't believe that I am defending a product that isn't even out yet. You have repeatedly talked about how crappy something is without seeing the entire product. It is like describing an animal when all you have to go on is one scale.
Starting to get cold in my area. How's the climate in your neck of the woods, Sebastian?
Just goes to show how precious little we know about where the game is going, and why the vast majority of this discussion is all baseless, idle speculation.
Of course it is speculation, with a few rants thrown in too.
Games go through upgrades. So do other things, but backward compatibility does exist. I have XP on my PC, but can still run 95 software (with a patch or two). Xbox 360 can play (some) Xbox games. DVD players can play CD's.
It would therefore be nice if D&D 4 could be used for D&D 3.5/3.0 without a major overhaul.
The rant continues.
And yes, I will still probably buy 4th edition. I have loads of RPG's I have never played, so one more will not break the bank (but maybe the bookshelf will need reinforcing).
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Starting to get cold in my area. How's the climate in your neck of the woods, Sebastian?
The guy is a troll, and I mean that in the classic sense. As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, his prior work on the board included the famous "OMG! They said s%+$ in Dragon" thread. He's just trying to get a reaction, but he's not smart enough to spin good lies and too clumsy to play emotions well.
If there's nothing worse than a troll, it's an unskilled troll.
Takasi was a true master of the art.
Will you nominate me. It may be dramatic, but its true. I hate to say this after I enjoyed 3.0. 3.5, and especially Living Greyhawk, but I want to see WOTC fail at their latest endeavor. They have angered me in so many ways. Here's a short list:
-Released TOEE PC game with a ton of bugs so that it was virtually unplayable till a third party created a patch.
-Replaced 3.0 with 3.5 after a short time
-Compounded the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion by continuing to release 3.0 books when 3.5 came out (this includes Monster Manual 2, Fiend Folio, and Book of Vile Darkness)
-After the 4th complete book book the rest were just garbage. They then had the nerve to say that 4.0 had to come because 3.5 was too complicated - a situation they caused with more rulebooks.
-Released Magic Item Compenium and Spell Compendium even though neither book is complete and is barely referencable.
-Release even more crappy books like Heroes of Battle
-They canceled Dungeon and Dragon Magazines.
-They killed Living Greyhawk.
Does anyone out there work for a company that treats its customers this way? If I did I would leave and have on several occasions because it doesn't bode well. It shows that WOTC is a disorganized lot, a headless monster that is reactive instead of proactive.
I am one customer that is moving on. There's just no reason for me to buy any more of their products. I don't need 4.0 and from what I have seen there are plenty of other people out there who feel the same way to play with.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Wow, and only in three systems.
Was this directed at me courtfool?
I guess my own point was, I've 3 systems that are highly compatible (if I use Defense in 3.5 they're more so) and mesh well as one game. Heck, my WoD books just all became fluff magnets. I've no need to get a 4.0 edition that I have to contort to mash in.
If I wanted one generic system, I'd play true20.
Sebastian - this is not work. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. I have a real job that pays me real money. It is in the field of Product Management. I figured it was worth sharing my insight with the rest of the members of this board. If you want to chat about my credibility, religious beliefs, morales, and such start a new thread instead of posting silly posts about how I don't know anything. I don't know you and am not going to waste my time trying to figure out who you are or what your motivations are. For all I know you could be a shill for WOTC poo pooing my threads because your job is on the line if 4.0 fails. Or maybe your life revolves around D&D and you feel threatened when I write that the company that has provided you with rules and stories that your life revolves around is making a strategic blunder that could negatively effect the game you know and love. I could go on and on, but why waste time. I have asked people what they think not what they think about me. I start fires and watch them burn to see where the wind blows on these boards. Right now I would say by the way the mob Sebastian has created is writing there is plenty of money to be had from the D&D community as there are many still towing the WOTC party line.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Sebastian - this is not work. I am not here to convince anyone of anything.
Which is good, because you have failed.
I have a real job that pays me real money. It is in the field of Product Management.
And still no mention of the products. Huh.
I figured it was worth sharing my insight with the rest of the members of this board.
I'd hardly call them "insights".
If you want to chat about my credibility, religious beliefs, morales, and such start a new thread instead of posting silly posts about how I don't know anything.
No need, really. Your posts speak for themselves. They are filled with ridiculous extremist positions and the "facts" are incorrect. You don't even understand the relationship between WotC and Atari which resulted in the ToEE game that has caused you so much grief.
I don't know you and am not going to waste my time trying to figure out who you are or what your motivations are. For all I know you could be a shill for WOTC poo pooing my threads because your job is on the line if 4.0 fails.
It is. I'm actually the CEO of Hasbro.
Or maybe your life revolves around D&D and you feel threatened when I write that the company that has provided you with rules and stories that your life revolves around is making a strategic blunder that could negatively effect the game you know and love. I could go on and on, but why waste time.
Because even going on and on, you would stumble over small details, like the facts. And, eventually, even the dimmest posters will come to realize that, even if they are angry about 4e, you're full of s+&+. Just like you were on your thread about that very word.
I have asked people what they think not what they think about me. I start fires and watch them burn to see where the wind blows on these boards. Right now I would say by the way the mob Sebastian has created is writing there is plenty of money to be had from the D&D community as there are many still towing the WOTC party line.
Again, your troll-fu is weak. Continue your journey grasshopper, and return again under a new user name once you are able to take this grain of rice from my hand.
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I have a real job that pays me real money.
What has this to do with anything?
You have not really asked people what they think. You have insisted on slamming WotC based on half-assed information. You talk as if you know exactly what the final product will be even though the creators have said that it isn't finished yet. You are giving your OPINION as FACT and the truth is that they are not the same thing.
I can understand that you are hurt or frustrated that WotC has decided to move on to a new version at this time. You have gone WAY beyond expressing that feeling.
Loved the 'Sebastian mob' quote though. Sebastian and I have not seen eye to eye on a number of things. But what we do like are people who post real questions or comments that are intelligent, useful, and/or humorous. Yours are none of those -- which also makes it easy to make fun of.
Sebastion - please tell all of us who you work for, what your education level is, your marital status, your political affilation, where you live, and what you do for a living. Under your standard we cannot take you seriously until you do.
As for my facts you can't prove anything I have written is incorrect until you take the time to provide your sources.
Your information is as good as mine.
Burn baby burn.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Sebastion - please tell all of us who you work for, what your education level is, your marital status, your political affilation, where you live, and what you do for a living. Under your standard we cannot take you seriously until you do.
As for my facts you can't prove anything I have written is incorrect until you take the time to provide your sources.
Your information is as good as mine.
Burn baby burn.
Uh...no. I'm not relying on my "experience" as justification for my assertions (e.g., saying that "I've launched million dollar product lines, so I know what I'm talking about."). I'm relying on these little things called "facts." You may wish to investigate them.
Tell us more about the Prius, will you? And also how exactly 4e will work? I'd love to hear more.
No rice for you.
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I just have one thing to add to all this... And it has nothing to do with the Subject..
Atari Hate Start:
Atari will be the Death to D&D Video Games... They Have failed terrible as a Publisher for the games and have proven over and over that they only care about the money and not the product..
Atari Hate Over.
Ah, well, guys? Could we stop this prior to degenerating into a flame war? I love these boards for being polite and free of flame wars, please don´t spoil it, for whatever reasons. It looks like this will become a flame war shortly. And, just to make that clear, I don´t want to have anybody accusating anybody else of starting it, I just want to keep the tone polite around here. (Yes, you may call me a spoilsport now)
Stefan
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Ah, well, guys? Could we stop this prior to degenerating into a flame war? I love these boards for being polite and free of flame wars, please don´t spoil it, for whatever reasons. It looks like this will become a flame war shortly. And, just to make that clear, I don´t want to have anybody accusating anybody else of starting it, I just want to keep the tone polite around here. (Yes, you may call me a spoilsport now)
Stefan
But we were have so much fun...
Moff, Muff, Muppet whatever your name is, I am not here to entertain you. I simply put out a post on why I think WOTC's strategy will net them less revenue then their alternatives. I took the additional step on what I believe their motivations are. I haven't heard any type of analysis from you except to bash me because you don't agree with my analysis. That's your perogative, but don't tell me I'm wrong when you can't prove your right. You have as much information at your disposal as I have, but I don't believe you or your buddy Sebastion has gone to the well. Have you looked as Hasbro's quarterly and annual reports. Do you know what WOTC's contribution to their bottom line is. Both of you seem to think that if the stock goes up that the D&D brand has something to do with it. How about the stock is going up because Hasbro has the Transformers line and the toys are a hit. WOTC contribution to Hasbro's bottom line has been flat since the introduction of 3.0. Minis has insured that it wouldn't decrease but the smart money says that this unit is stagnent. They needed something new and 4.0 and an online presence was the best they could come up with. Numbers don't lie.
Sebastion, Muffit please tell us all what your sources are. Please tell everyone the insiders you know that are showing you that 4.0 will be a hit. Show this community how WOTC is right. How their strategy will actually increase their revenue over the next ten years. How the customers they have alienated will come back and buy their products.
Show us. Oh sorry you can't. All you'll do is break this email into little pieces and attack each point without looking at the big picture. Don't worry tomorrow your boss might let you use the cash register at Micky D's.
I don't call myself the real brain for nothing.
Brain, you were doing much better just ignoring Sebastian. His responses are just rhetorical nonsense.
I read your original post, in full, and thank you for your clear insights.
And as for any question of your credentials, I'm sure you'd agree that million-dollar product lines are actually rather common, and being involved with or managing one is not something that strains credibility. Particularly not enough to post private information to a very public board.
Brain, you were doing much better just ignoring Sebastian. His responses are just rhetorical nonsense.
Okay, I take it back, your last response was pretty darn good... but still. :)
Sebastion, Muffit please tell us all what your sources are. Please tell everyone the insiders you know that are showing you that 4.0 will be a hit. Show this community how WOTC is right. How their strategy will actually increase their revenue over the next ten years. How the customers they have alienated will come back and buy their products.
Considering your sources seem to be an overactive imagination or maybe timetravel I find it amusing you are asking for sources.
Your so busy with your own agenda you havn't paid attention. I believe Sebastion & Moff's point is (in my words not theirs) "We don't know if 4E will be good or not. Only time will tell, but you can't blame a company for trying to make money."
I don't call myself the real brain for nothing.Really, what's the reason then?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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That's your perogative, but don't tell me I'm wrong when you can't prove your right.
He doesn't have to be right in order for you to be wrong. You are wrong because you make s*$! up.
You have as much information at your disposal as I have, but I don't believe you or your buddy Sebastion has gone to the well. Have you looked as Hasbro's quarterly and annual reports. Do you know what WOTC's contribution to their bottom line is.
Funny story. I do. Funnier story. They don't break out WotC's contribution to the bottom line. That's because, subsidiaries are consolidated into the financial statements of the parent. In fact, D&D is barely mentioned because it's not material to the Company's business. The 10-K only mentions D&D in the context of its video game license (surprise, surprise, they license the D&D brand for video games. Huh, funny, that).
Both of you seem to think that if the stock goes up that the D&D brand has something to do with it. How about the stock is going up because Hasbro has the Transformers line and the toys are a hit.
Except the share price has actually been going down as of late due to that whole lead paint china thing. But good try. You had a 50-50 chance of getting the direction of the stock price right with your random guess. I mean yeah, you could have checked your facts before posting, but why start now?
WOTC contribution to Hasbro's bottom line has been flat since the introduction of 3.0. Minis has insured that it wouldn't decrease but the smart money says that this unit is stagnent. They needed something new and 4.0 and an online presence was the best they could come up with. Numbers don't lie.
But you do. The numbers aren't publicly available, certainly not down to the level that you claim they are. 3.0 has very little impact on Hasbro's bottom line. They did not even have to disclose the transaction in which they purchased WotC it was so immaterial to them.
Show us. Oh sorry you can't. All you'll do is break this email into little pieces and attack each point without looking at the big picture. Don't worry tomorrow your boss might let you use the cash register at Micky D's.
Here is where you can find all of Hasbro's SEC filings:
http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=000004608 0&owner=include&count=40
Go ahead and back your statement up with some facts for a change.
Rice. None.
Brain, you were doing much better just ignoring Sebastian. His responses are just rhetorical nonsense.Okay, I take it back, your last response was pretty darn good... but still. :)
Good? Meh.
I have a real job that pays me real money. It is in the field of Product Management.And still no mention of the products. Huh.
I'll bet he works in a feedlot and manages not to get any "product" on him.
Sebastian, for your posts in this thread, if nothing else, I feel I owe you a beer or two as payment for the entertainment.
Sebastian - this is not work. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. I have a real job that pays me real money. It is in the field of Product Management. I figured it was worth sharing my insight with the rest of the members of this board. If you want to chat about my credibility, religious beliefs, morales, and such start a new thread instead of posting silly posts about how I don't know anything. I don't know you and am not going to waste my time trying to figure out who you are or what your motivations are. For all I know you could be a shill for WOTC poo pooing my threads because your job is on the line if 4.0 fails. Or maybe your life revolves around D&D and you feel threatened when I write that the company that has provided you with rules and stories that your life revolves around is making a strategic blunder that could negatively effect the game you know and love. I could go on and on, but why waste time. I have asked people what they think not what they think about me. I start fires and watch them burn to see where the wind blows on these boards. Right now I would say by the way the mob Sebastian has created is writing there is plenty of money to be had from the D&D community as there are many still towing the WOTC party line.
OK Real Brain I am with you (By the way thanks for your words). I think Sebastian is earning something by defending 4.0 mmmm...
Sebastian - this is not work. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. I have a real job that pays me real money. It is in the field of Product Management. I figured it was worth sharing my insight with the rest of the members of this board. If you want to chat about my credibility, religious beliefs, morales, and such start a new thread instead of posting silly posts about how I don't know anything. I don't know you and am not going to waste my time trying to figure out who you are or what your motivations are. For all I know you could be a shill for WOTC poo pooing my threads because your job is on the line if 4.0 fails. Or maybe your life revolves around D&D and you feel threatened when I write that the company that has provided you with rules and stories that your life revolves around is making a strategic blunder that could negatively effect the game you know and love. I could go on and on, but why waste time. I have asked people what they think not what they think about me. I start fires and watch them burn to see where the wind blows on these boards. Right now I would say by the way the mob Sebastian has created is writing there is plenty of money to be had from the D&D community as there are many still towing the WOTC party line.OK Real Brain I am with you (By the way thanks for your words). I think Sebastian is earning something by defending 4.0 mmmm...
I think Real Brain is earning something bashing 4.0 mmmm...
Does a person need a cash incentive to want to argue with another person on the internet? Come on.
I have a real job that pays me real money. It is in the field of Product Management.
And still no mention of the products. Huh.
What an agresive guy, uuggghhh.
I don't know you and am not going to waste my time trying to figure out who you are or what your motivations are. For all I know you could be a shill for WOTC poo pooing my threads because your job is on the line if 4.0 fails.
It is. I'm actually the CEO of Hasbro.
DON'T SAY A WORD SEBASTIAN YOU ARE DEFENDING YOUR DOLLARS NOT THE GAMERS.
Why people so agressive is working in Hasbro?
If Real Brain would be speaking well about 4.0 then Sebastina congratulates. But you say the truth and Sebastian gets angry and says things as vulgar as s&%$. Real Brain has been a getleman and Sebastian thinks is the owner of truth. By the way Sebastian, Real Brain an Patricio aren't failing read the posts 4.0 is falling down before it is upright.
Does a person need a cash incentive to want to argue with another person on the internet? Come on.
You are right Zynete I am losing money this very moment in dial-up connection. But sssshhhhhh... don't say anybody, but this is my first discussion on a board and I am enjoying. hi hi hi
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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This thread is starting to get too much collateral damage, so I'll do my damndest to bow out now (low Will save, don't fail me now). This isn't a 4e/non-4e debate; this is a troll infesting our community.
Go read:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dragon/generalDiscussion/languageInLat estIssueOfDragon&page=1#204539
to see Tim "Real Brain" Kosinski in action.
For those jumping on the "me too" bandwagon with the "Real Brain", feel free to take out your grief against me directly in other threads. I'm always happy to oblige.
For those jumping on the "me too" bandwagon with the "Real Brain", feel free to take out your grief against me directly in other threads. I'm always happy to oblige.
Sebastian it is clear you have your point of view and we have our, it is a nonsense discussion when someone who we really know is not going to change his mind invite us to discuss out of this forum. Will this be different out this place? Will you or I change our mind out of this place? I think no. But you should be adult enough to recognize you are acting agresively and you sound as if you were threatened by someone or something.
We are not curing the cancer or stopping a war, this is game only that a game and we are not here to insult or be insulted. Calling someone who has been respectful to you a troll is not good for this thread.You stick in your position? OK, but remember (you work for Hasbro) that people like Real Brain and me have been giving our money to pay your salary and at least we deserve to be treated as customer not as enemies.
Hasbro's stock price was going up prior to the China lead paint scandal. I removed the temporary negative impact from my statement as I don't have time to explain stock valuation in addition to product strategy and management. Sebastian - I am impressed. You did some research so I know that you at least make an effort. If you want to know more about Hasbro and their individual units call the investor relations office or their headquarters in Rhode Island. If you ask them "There has been some buzz lately about an online initiative related to the Dungeons and Dragons brand. As your past initiatives in this area have been had limited success I would like to know how you believe the cost of this initiaive will effect the units and by extension, the companies bottom line. The concern that the investment for this type of product offering is high and may be funded by profitable units to support the lagging contribution of another." You'll be amazed how much information you can get if you go down this path. Also check out the analyst reports on yahoo finance if you can spend a couple of bucks.
My past posts have tackled the subject of improper language and subject matter that have appeared in Paizo products. I was against language that was printed in a story that appear in a recent Dragon Magazine. Words that are not allowed in this message board appeared in the magazine. I also took issue with that Dragon and Dungeon magazine had always appeared to not allow adult content to appear in the magazine in the past. Sebastion and company decided it was time to tell me to grow up. My concern was that if the magazine prints adult material they will have adults as an audience. If that was the case I would not allow my children to read the magazine as I thought it was inappropriate. The thread was soon hijacked by Sebastion and co to lecture me on the harsh realtities of life and how a kid has to learn some time. Of course that's what NAMBLA says too.
I would like to point out the things that I did not know before I posted that the community has provided:
- Many have the impression that the 4.0 rules set resembles the one used for the online D&D game. (There is even more evidence if you look at posts on the RPGA boards.)
- Players fall into a number of categories:
can't wait to have 4.0, nothing else matters
have 3.5, won't buy 4.0
have 3.5. skeptical of 4.0, waiting to see
4.0 tools look cool so I'm for 4.0
Forgotten Realms is the main focus of 4.0, so I want 4.0
BTW - in the product management field these are called personas. They say alot about who your customers are. If WOTC followed product management methodology they would be trying to figure out how many users are in each category and focus on either the largest group or the group with the most influence for their intial release to insure market penetration. I think the majority of customers (60%?) fall into the have 3.5 works for me don't need 4.0 and the I love Forgotten Realms so I'll buy 4.0 categories. I can't say how they are split probably 60-40 one way or the other. I'd bet that where the majority falls will determine the success/ failure of 4.0.
Anyway this post once again has been hijacked by the mob and is useless. For those that came to the table to review my analysis and respond intelligently, thanks. I thank you for you comments and constructive criticism. Those that wanted to agrue about the gas mileage of an idleing Prius or how flawed my logic is without bringing your own - this thread is all yours, after all I can just start a new one.
Real Brain, it's kind of a shame that you seem to have become some kind of scapegoat. I thought your original post was very well thought out (if a bit lengthy). You make some great points. About all we have is history and a vague outline for the future to go on. I thought it was interesting that you brought up how eager everyone was to jump in to 3rd edition. I know that there were a lot of people that were not so thrilled, but from my neck of the woods there was a generally overall feeling of readiness for a new edition to fix all of the broken elements of the game so you didn't have to adopt several pages of house rules in order to make your game work.
3rd edition was brilliant in that sense. Eventually, it was obvious that all the fixes weren't quite all fixed and v.3.5 came out. I was one of those that didn't want to buy a bunch of new books, but I did and never regretted it.
I personnaly don't see anything broken about v.3.5 that can't be errata'd instead of scrapping it and starting up a whole new edition. People will buy into it because they want a current up to date game. They want to have the newest thing. That's just the way it is, unfortunately. If it turns out to be the best thing ever created, then Hooray! I just don't know what to think right now other than that I won't be making any quick move to buy a bunch of shiny, new books until I've gotten all the money's worth out of the books that are presently sitting on my bookshelf, of which I've invested a considerable amount of money.
Again, I thought your post was great. It's too bad you've taken so much flak for it.
The thread was soon hijacked by Sebastion and co to lecture me on the harsh realtities of life and how a kid has to learn some time. Of course that's what NAMBLA says too.
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Of course that's what NAMBLA says too.
Good Lord . . . that was so uncalled for, and once again, completely over the top for the topic at hand.
Again, I thought your post was great. It's too bad you've taken so much flak for it.
Just to clarify, the first post is not what I have a problem with.
