Watch the 3rd video


4th Edition


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=welcome/conventions/gencon07


well, thanks for the links; not impressed so far.

maybe a spoiler on the video; watch before you read this

Was amazed on how poor the presentation was, but that is just a professional comment as I see presentations all the time. Virtual d&d might be kinda nice, not sure, not all of my players have laptops; am really lukewarm to not interested so far and didnt hear anything really to make me ask more questions; just have to wait and see I guess. I hope they did a good job; take character picture generation for instance; if that is lame, then it will get the dander up of a whole lot of people; it better be as good or better than the character generator for City of Heroes/Villains for instance, their better be a whole lot of options. It also seems like they want D&Ders to start paying an online fee and be part of a network; the whole point of the game for me is a cool way to tell a story and participate in a story in a cheap and fun manner; why would I want to be a "d&d insider" they didnt really sell that point well. There are problems with the videos also; come on, decapitating a troll, in my game that is going to make more trolls; hate to see things like that.


Valegrim wrote:

well, thanks for the links; not impressed so far.

maybe a spoiler on the video; watch before you read this

Was amazed on how poor the presentation was, but that is just a professional comment as I see presentations all the time. Virtual d&d might be kinda nice, not sure, not all of my players have laptops; am really lukewarm to not interested so far and didnt hear anything really to make me ask more questions; just have to wait and see I guess. I hope they did a good job; take character picture generation for instance; if that is lame, then it will get the dander up of a whole lot of people; it better be as good or better than the character generator for City of Heroes/Villains for instance, their better be a whole lot of options. It also seems like they want D&Ders to start paying an online fee and be part of a network; the whole point of the game for me is a cool way to tell a story and participate in a story in a cheap and fun manner; why would I want to be a "d&d insider" they didnt really sell that point well. There are problems with the videos also; come on, decapitating a troll, in my game that is going to make more trolls; hate to see things like that.

They needed to have a PRESENTER, not just a designer... someone who could help the designer SELL THE IDEA.

City of Heroes/Villians has arguably the most robust character creation tool in an MMORPG.... it'll be hard for them to top it.

- Ashavan


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah. Wow. Speaking as someone for whom public speaking is a critical part of my job, I'd have to say these guys need help. They looked nervous and unsure of themselves and it looked like they hadn't put much work to prepare for the presentation.

I didn't learn much, and I'm not much more interested in 4th ed than I was before. The character portrait thing might have potential if it is highly, *highly* customizable. We'll see, I suppose.


Kelvar Silvermace wrote:
I didn't learn much, and I'm not much more interested in 4th ed than I was before. The character portrait thing might have potential if it is highly, *highly* customizable. We'll see, I suppose.

I've never seen the City of Heros generator so I can't be sure BUT from the it looks like they have a good start (even if they only use one character) Height, weight, skin, hair(or lack of it)color were represented. Some armor and clothing color customization was shown.

Personally I think they need 10 or more body styles (At least different faces), of each sex of each Core race. The same for most of the armors and other equipment.

Hopefully they put in the effort.

Sovereign Court Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder

Valegrim wrote:


Was amazed on how poor the presentation was, but that is just a professional comment as I see presentations all the time.

I agree...I felt sort of embarrassed watching them trip through all those awkward pauses, and the "no, go ahead, you take this one" moments. At one point, they make some statement that they expected cheers or applause, but instead got the lone cricket sound. And then it PAINED me to see Chris exclaim, "Thank you!"

Yes, I could tell they were nervous. Who wouldn't be in a room of gamers, telling them that their beloved libraries of 3.5 edition books was about to become 'the inferior version'?

As it is, they totally failed their Perform check. They needed someone to aid them.

As for WHAT they showed, I really liked the virtual tabletop. I did notice that when they moved a miniature, it totally hopped the map, instead of sliding through a plotted path. One of the moves took the miniature right past the monster, but no indication of proximity for an Attack of Opportunity came up....unless of course, 4ed doesn't HAVE those anymore.

But, as it is, I am looking forward to 4th edition.


I think they should have taken a cue from how some video game companies present their new showings, and have the principals involved say a few words, then let a more professional presenter take over and do the whole thing in a polished manner. There was no Q&A, so there shouldn't be any reason a presenter couldn't have worked, and there is no reason to make a formal announcement and not know which of the presenters is going to take the next part of the presentation.


I couldn't help wondering why they didn't stage a play test there and then just to show some of the ideas they were planning.

Okay it may not have been ready but it would have been a better crowd pleaser if they gave members of the audience a chance to see for themselves.

I could just hear someone yelling "Oi" and tugging that second character back and then saying "Why didn't you say something before i opened the door!" for that clip where one character sees a poster warning about a beholder only to have his comrade open a door and realise there's one in the room for themself.

I really would have liked them showing 4e in that video not just some flashy images and no backing to prove themselves.
It didn't even have to be complex like;

First there was original d&d and you see the group around the table selecting their characters from the original choice list human fighter, cleric, magic user, rogue or dwarf, elf or halfling.

Then moving a few years on to see this expand introducing the extra classes for 1st edition ad&d maybe even indicating the limitations wizards had for adding spells to their books, then on to 2nd edition and have it show Mystara or whatever it was called with a brief voiceover of the audio discs they released with it.
Perhaps even showing Forgotten Realms with a bit of a teaser showing a dwarf, a podgy halfling with a mace and a ruby pendant and a cloaked elf with paired scimitars and a panther animal companion, you know get them interested...
Then show 3.0 by having the group around the table with updated versions of their original characters perhaps going over the same adventure introduced at the start before heading to 3.5 and having them run an Eberron game with a brief scene of airships, a fierce battle even if taken from Stormreach or D&D online it would have been something...
AND THEN introduce 4e showing them around the table with the dm using his laptop and them going over their game revealing that its being run in the next room LIVE giving people a chance to sit in and see it in action, it doesn't hve to be long just enough to make people want to know more and not treated as morons like they did!

Apologies on the length please reply especially concerning what you'd rather had seen.


It was so interesting that I fell asleep during the interview. The last thing I caught was Mike explaining that 4e will tell us what monster is supposed to be a front liner and which one is the ranged guy. I’m sure glad they are going to clear that up for us. After nearly 20 years of playing and DMing I couldn’t figure that out.

---Koldoon wrote
They needed to have a PRESENTER, not just a designer... someone who could help the designer SELL THE IDEA.---

I’m in complete agreement.

So far they’ve shown nothing that has interested my group to change to 4e.

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